To Dallas Dude
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Dunno Tower,
I did nothing but daydream in ground school too (also previous boeing boy) but I did ride it out. Once you got to sim it was alright, even fun. Once you got to the checkairman I found it to be a great place.
You would have liked the Miami base, and who knows, maybe we would reopen sanjuan soon. You certainly could have commuted in from your boat in the caribbean.
That FE program was nothing but a boot camp. All you had to do was puke out the redboxes and you were drivin. Verbatim is Adaquet. I swear, next time I hear that I might climb to the top of the nearest belltower and...
Hope you atleast got a plate of PadThai before you left.
Cheers
Wino
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 25 December 2000).]
I did nothing but daydream in ground school too (also previous boeing boy) but I did ride it out. Once you got to sim it was alright, even fun. Once you got to the checkairman I found it to be a great place.
You would have liked the Miami base, and who knows, maybe we would reopen sanjuan soon. You certainly could have commuted in from your boat in the caribbean.
That FE program was nothing but a boot camp. All you had to do was puke out the redboxes and you were drivin. Verbatim is Adaquet. I swear, next time I hear that I might climb to the top of the nearest belltower and...
Hope you atleast got a plate of PadThai before you left.
Cheers
Wino
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 25 December 2000).]
Guest
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Wino:
Uh, yeah, I should have tried the Pad Thai dish.
As for ground school with AA.
Well, I can still go back if I want.
Did not turn in resignation, just told the bossman I was unable to concentrate and needed time off. (Hoping he would give me 5 years with pay.
)
He gave me a month to think about it.
Welcomed me back Jan 13th.
Have time to think, and could ride it out if I went back. No bridges burned, but don't know that I want to fly/work anymore.
The B-727 school was not that brutal really, just booooring.
Had worse when I started with Evergreen on the DC-8 12 years ago. That was boot camp.
Still thinking, still have the choice.
We shall see.
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Men, this is no drill...
Uh, yeah, I should have tried the Pad Thai dish.
As for ground school with AA.
Well, I can still go back if I want.
Did not turn in resignation, just told the bossman I was unable to concentrate and needed time off. (Hoping he would give me 5 years with pay.
)He gave me a month to think about it.
Welcomed me back Jan 13th.
Have time to think, and could ride it out if I went back. No bridges burned, but don't know that I want to fly/work anymore.
The B-727 school was not that brutal really, just booooring.
Had worse when I started with Evergreen on the DC-8 12 years ago. That was boot camp.
Still thinking, still have the choice.
We shall see.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
Guest
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You are absolutely right about boring.
However, My time online was great, though I am back in the school house for upgrade again. VERY quickly I accumulated enough seniority in Miami to do whatever I wanted on the panel. After two months I was 47 out of like 180 for domestic FE. Could hold lines that matched my sched. I would still be doing it if they based 727s where I live, but they don't, so back to school.
If I lived in Miami I would be on the panel till they threw me off...
I came from being an A320 captain to this, and it was REALLY hard to psyche myself up for ground school and almost quit several times as well. The 80 percent paycut had my eyes crossed as well, but now that I am through boot, I am really glad I stuck it out. For a while it was really close. I could have gone back to my old job and really thought about it everytime the alarm rang for some O'Dark early class.
Now I wouldn't be anywhere else.
Cheers
Wino
However, My time online was great, though I am back in the school house for upgrade again. VERY quickly I accumulated enough seniority in Miami to do whatever I wanted on the panel. After two months I was 47 out of like 180 for domestic FE. Could hold lines that matched my sched. I would still be doing it if they based 727s where I live, but they don't, so back to school.
If I lived in Miami I would be on the panel till they threw me off...
I came from being an A320 captain to this, and it was REALLY hard to psyche myself up for ground school and almost quit several times as well. The 80 percent paycut had my eyes crossed as well, but now that I am through boot, I am really glad I stuck it out. For a while it was really close. I could have gone back to my old job and really thought about it everytime the alarm rang for some O'Dark early class.
Now I wouldn't be anywhere else.
Cheers
Wino
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Wino:
Uh, good inspiration.
Perhaps I should go back.
Been pondering the issue a few days now.
No bridges burned, except perhaps for my wifes heart-attack..
Aye, yes, AA is a good company and many of my pals think I've flipped.
Yeah, perhaps I should go back and tough it out.
Ya gonne be in Dallas the 12th or later?
What is yer new course? F/O B-727?
(Never been F/E before and it just got so dull with system this and system that and 20 min. preflight flows and etc., in the meantime my boat is sitting home waiting for that long trip down-island. She is ready and paid for, screw the school house.
Well, ya know what I mean.
Anyway, to the rest of you: Sorry about using this forum/topic as an e-mail:
Doubt it has general interest that this TowerDog walked of the job, and now perhaps doing a 180 and walking back to it.
We shall see.
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Men, this is no drill...
Uh, good inspiration.
Perhaps I should go back.
Been pondering the issue a few days now.
No bridges burned, except perhaps for my wifes heart-attack..
Aye, yes, AA is a good company and many of my pals think I've flipped.
Yeah, perhaps I should go back and tough it out.
Ya gonne be in Dallas the 12th or later?
What is yer new course? F/O B-727?
(Never been F/E before and it just got so dull with system this and system that and 20 min. preflight flows and etc., in the meantime my boat is sitting home waiting for that long trip down-island. She is ready and paid for, screw the school house.
Well, ya know what I mean.
Anyway, to the rest of you: Sorry about using this forum/topic as an e-mail:
Doubt it has general interest that this TowerDog walked of the job, and now perhaps doing a 180 and walking back to it.
We shall see.
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Men, this is no drill...
Guest
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I was never an FE either. I did 3 years as an F/O on the 727 at me previous company. The adjustment wasn't pleasent. But it was the normals and the whole concept of checklist integation and the constant hammering on the paper trainers instead of a real cpt or sim that demoralized me. I have never done well on a paper trainer, I just can't develope a rythm on them so I do poorly. I make up for it by learning extremely quickly in the real thing though.
Currently I am doing the A300 F/O thing. This class is ALOT more enjoyable. I am actually enjoying this school. Only a very small part of that is not having to put up with a roomate. You will get to much nicer hotels and lifestyles if you survive boot camp. .
Of course I have always enjoyed sim. If I had more money than brains (if that doesn't say how little money you make on probation I don't know what does) I would be collecting type ratings. But this course "feels" right to me, and I can't honestly say that about bootcamp.
Get out at night, eat some thai food, hit the lonestar oyster bar and hooters and suck it up. Its worth it when you are done. Don't forget, that one day you get to "back the dump truck up to the B fund!"
Cheers
Wino
PS, I will be in Dallas till the 17th, so I will find you for a beer if you come back.
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 27 December 2000).]
Currently I am doing the A300 F/O thing. This class is ALOT more enjoyable. I am actually enjoying this school. Only a very small part of that is not having to put up with a roomate. You will get to much nicer hotels and lifestyles if you survive boot camp. .
Of course I have always enjoyed sim. If I had more money than brains (if that doesn't say how little money you make on probation I don't know what does
) I would be collecting type ratings. But this course "feels" right to me, and I can't honestly say that about bootcamp. Get out at night, eat some thai food, hit the lonestar oyster bar and hooters and suck it up. Its worth it when you are done. Don't forget, that one day you get to "back the dump truck up to the B fund!"
Cheers
Wino
PS, I will be in Dallas till the 17th, so I will find you for a beer if you come back.
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 27 December 2000).]
Guest
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Okay Wino, will let ya know if I go back.
Right now, don't know.
I have 3 type ratings plus a bunch of other stuff: Twin Eng sea plane and all that, but never really enjoyed school or check rides.
(Except perhaps the DC-3 course.)
Last job I was capt on the B-747 and had so much time in the plane I could surf through all the re-currents and stuff. Now, on the B-727 panel I actually have to know something
AND work hard. .
Who did ya fly A-320 for? JetBlue or Air Med something?
Later.
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Men, this is no drill...
Right now, don't know.
I have 3 type ratings plus a bunch of other stuff: Twin Eng sea plane and all that, but never really enjoyed school or check rides.
(Except perhaps the DC-3 course.)
Last job I was capt on the B-747 and had so much time in the plane I could surf through all the re-currents and stuff. Now, on the B-727 panel I actually have to know something
AND work hard.
.Who did ya fly A-320 for? JetBlue or Air Med something?
Later.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
Guest
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I spent the last 6 years at a little place called Ryan International.
A few of your Tower air types were from there. I had one Towerair captain living in my basement.
Like you I was surfed through school, and didn't enjoy the systems ground school.
Cheers
Wino
A few of your Tower air types were from there. I had one Towerair captain living in my basement.
Like you I was surfed through school, and didn't enjoy the systems ground school.
Cheers
Wino
Guest
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Wino:
Tower Air pilot in yer basement??
Who was that?
E-mail me at [email protected] anytime
Be good.
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Men, this is no drill...
Tower Air pilot in yer basement??
Who was that?
E-mail me at [email protected] anytime
Be good.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey Towerdog and Wino
Dont stop my heart is in my mouth waiting for the denouement.
Seriously interesting and very Ernie Gann B74 Capt one day B72 FE the next.
The story behind the stories must be fascinating.
Will Towerdog return to AA, is Wino going to be able to find him in Dallas and will the Cutter make it through the Bermuda Triangle?
I'm on the cusp of a fairly major career change myself, decision will be whether I throw myself back into the Bear Pit or as we say down here "pick up my doogs and go play on the beach". "doogs"=marbles.
cheers gaunty, staying tuned.
Dont stop my heart is in my mouth waiting for the denouement.
Seriously interesting and very Ernie Gann B74 Capt one day B72 FE the next.
The story behind the stories must be fascinating.
Will Towerdog return to AA, is Wino going to be able to find him in Dallas and will the Cutter make it through the Bermuda Triangle?
I'm on the cusp of a fairly major career change myself, decision will be whether I throw myself back into the Bear Pit or as we say down here "pick up my doogs and go play on the beach". "doogs"=marbles.
cheers gaunty, staying tuned.
Guest
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gaunty:
Well mate, don't hold your breath on the Bermuda Triangle bit. I plan to go gunk holing down the Bahama chain and the worst possible scenario is expensive beer, not being sucked up by aliens or otherwise disappear without a trace.
Actualy pondering going back to work for AA.
Cooled of a bit and had some time to think and relax. Hard to quit a job like that even if F/E school is a bit dull.
Just have to crank up some motivation before I go back to the school house.
Hopefully happy ending on this mess.
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Men, this is no drill...
Well mate, don't hold your breath on the Bermuda Triangle bit. I plan to go gunk holing down the Bahama chain and the worst possible scenario is expensive beer, not being sucked up by aliens or otherwise disappear without a trace.
Actualy pondering going back to work for AA.
Cooled of a bit and had some time to think and relax. Hard to quit a job like that even if F/E school is a bit dull.
Just have to crank up some motivation before I go back to the school house.
Hopefully happy ending on this mess.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
Guest
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As for motivation. Did your wife go the first 2 days of groundschool with you? Mine went to the spouse's orientation and she made sure to end every conversation during the first few months with "Kaching, back the dumptruck up to the Bfund" to keep me motivated. It worked. That Bfund is gonna buy a HUGE boat, and a bunch of sirens who aren't even born yet to crew it as well if my marriage doesn't last that long <G>.
One of the other nice things was when the Miami chiefs did their orientation in the Miami base, they repeatedly said that they were there to help up make it to 60 so that we could collect our retirement.
Once you got past a career's buildup of cynicism, you realized that once you made it out of the school house everyone was looking to help you succede. After spending a 13 year career as a target in everyone's crosshairs I didn't know how to react to that and thought it must be a joke, but its real and its a nice feeling. The older guys that tell you that you are a target for management came strait out of the military and never worked for Tower/Ryan. Those few that you might find that were at Eastern or Rosenbaum etc know what being a target is really about and can give you a much clearer view from a perspective that you are used to. If you do something truly stupid expect to pay for it (unlike in the military, the blue angles getting lost over DC comes to mind) but you have played the game for a decade and know how its played and would never do anything truly stupid. This is EASY my friend. Hard work was night freight, Charter pax and International nonsked with NO duty limits. Those days are over and done.
Make sure to go home on your 48s and when you are riding home think about whether Tower or Evergreen would have shipped you home during ground school for the weekends. It was things like that which changed my expectations for what an airline career can be. You are still stuck with Tower expectations with American groudschool workloads...
Cheers
Wino
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 02 January 2001).]
One of the other nice things was when the Miami chiefs did their orientation in the Miami base, they repeatedly said that they were there to help up make it to 60 so that we could collect our retirement.
Once you got past a career's buildup of cynicism, you realized that once you made it out of the school house everyone was looking to help you succede. After spending a 13 year career as a target in everyone's crosshairs I didn't know how to react to that and thought it must be a joke, but its real and its a nice feeling. The older guys that tell you that you are a target for management came strait out of the military and never worked for Tower/Ryan. Those few that you might find that were at Eastern or Rosenbaum etc know what being a target is really about and can give you a much clearer view from a perspective that you are used to. If you do something truly stupid expect to pay for it (unlike in the military, the blue angles getting lost over DC comes to mind) but you have played the game for a decade and know how its played and would never do anything truly stupid. This is EASY my friend. Hard work was night freight, Charter pax and International nonsked with NO duty limits. Those days are over and done.
Make sure to go home on your 48s and when you are riding home think about whether Tower or Evergreen would have shipped you home during ground school for the weekends. It was things like that which changed my expectations for what an airline career can be. You are still stuck with Tower expectations with American groudschool workloads...
Cheers
Wino
[This message has been edited by Wino (edited 02 January 2001).]
Guest
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Wino:
Good posting as usual, thanks.
Yup, the wifes came to the 2 day introduction. She loved it, rah rah and all.
(We met on an AA B-767 10 years ago, sitting next to each other in first class, she was Gold/Admirals Club frequent flier. Told her I was afraid of flying and would she hold my hand for the T/O. She did, I got her number and we married 5 months later. AA goes way back for us.)
Fairly sure I am going back, but will know more in a day or two as the better half is returning from family visits in snow-storm country.
Will e-mail ya my cell phone number, then we can arrange a meeting in big D.
See ya then.
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Men, this is no drill...
Good posting as usual, thanks.
Yup, the wifes came to the 2 day introduction. She loved it, rah rah and all.
(We met on an AA B-767 10 years ago, sitting next to each other in first class, she was Gold/Admirals Club frequent flier. Told her I was afraid of flying and would she hold my hand for the T/O. She did, I got her number and we married 5 months later. AA goes way back for us.
)Fairly sure I am going back, but will know more in a day or two as the better half is returning from family visits in snow-storm country.
Will e-mail ya my cell phone number, then we can arrange a meeting in big D.
See ya then.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
Guest
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GOOD posting Wino....
TowerDog:
I came from 747-400's to AA's hazing program, and wondered if I had done the right thing ( people were busting checks all around me - very un-nerving - but they had very little big-jet experience unlike you. You will be an asset from the get-go, just like they became through time.)
Wino's right: the folks in MIA are fantastic, and they are ALL there to help and have a good time. You'll love it. You will also be off the panel in weeks, and you will find FO school a whole new world of being treated like a big-boy. In fact, it was fun ( yes, really ).
On reflection, coming to AA:
BEST MOVE ON THE PLANET
(Thanks to my fellow AA'ers reading this, who make me happy driving to the airport to go to work. I'd forgotten what fun flying could be.....)
TowerDog:
I came from 747-400's to AA's hazing program, and wondered if I had done the right thing ( people were busting checks all around me - very un-nerving - but they had very little big-jet experience unlike you. You will be an asset from the get-go, just like they became through time.)
Wino's right: the folks in MIA are fantastic, and they are ALL there to help and have a good time. You'll love it. You will also be off the panel in weeks, and you will find FO school a whole new world of being treated like a big-boy. In fact, it was fun ( yes, really ).
On reflection, coming to AA:
BEST MOVE ON THE PLANET
(Thanks to my fellow AA'ers reading this, who make me happy driving to the airport to go to work. I'd forgotten what fun flying could be.....)
Guest
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RRAAMjet
Funny you should mention people busting checks all around you. I don't think that I am particularly smart, but I have never been pinked and have never even had an extra sim period in my career. Sooner or later it will happen to me, I guess it happens to everyone. However, I am afraid that should it happen the whole house of cards might come tumbling down and I might never pass another ride again. With guys busting all around me in 727 groundschool, I got real worried for a while. Of course I got through it, probably with overkill, but that was really scary for a while when people I thought were smart were getting the hook left and right...
Passed my Airbus oral last week, things are cruising now. What a great time I am having in F/O school. Great instructors, great subject matter and all the possible knowledge that I can absorb with almost no crap to waste what pitifully little brain space is left in a head composed mostly of bone...
Cheers
Wino
Funny you should mention people busting checks all around you. I don't think that I am particularly smart, but I have never been pinked and have never even had an extra sim period in my career. Sooner or later it will happen to me, I guess it happens to everyone. However, I am afraid that should it happen the whole house of cards might come tumbling down and I might never pass another ride again. With guys busting all around me in 727 groundschool, I got real worried for a while. Of course I got through it, probably with overkill, but that was really scary for a while when people I thought were smart were getting the hook left and right...
Passed my Airbus oral last week, things are cruising now. What a great time I am having in F/O school. Great instructors, great subject matter and all the possible knowledge that I can absorb with almost no crap to waste what pitifully little brain space is left in a head composed mostly of bone...
Cheers
Wino
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TowerDog
Nah you don't want to go sailing yet, believe me I tried and got seriously bored and self destructive (idle hands...... etc).
Now I understand where you came from, AA sounds like a walk in the park with all the ice cream you can eat for free and you get paid for it
Nah you don't want to go sailing yet, believe me I tried and got seriously bored and self destructive (idle hands...... etc).
Now I understand where you came from, AA sounds like a walk in the park with all the ice cream you can eat for free and you get paid for it
Guest
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Don't quit TowerDog! AA is wonderful. Gut out boot camp and bid F/O. Just think, you can be in training for half of probation! F/O school is great - gentlemen's treatment and superb instruction. The line is even better. Compared to where I used to work (for a certain ACMI cargo outfit right next door to your Tower JFK office), AA is heaven.
You want to stay, trust me.
You want to stay, trust me.
Guest
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Okay all of ya, ya guys talked me into going back to work.
I am returning to 72 boot camp the 13th.
Never been plumbing so don't know if I will like it, but can see myself bidding to F/O slot asap.
Seems like a waste of time and training to complete the FE program, then 2 days later back to the school house to upgrade to right seat.
Speaking about boot camp, I did spend 5 months in Japan going through the 74 program for a major carrier over there.
Air Law Exam and Radio License Exam sure got yer attention.
Also the pressure they build up before sim training: JCAB very difficult, very difficult, you must study very hard.
This deal with AA is fairly easy compared to nip training. No real pressure on, just many boooring days in system class.
Thanks for the good advise guys and I will see ya'll in Dallas soon.
Ya'll be good, ya heah?
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Men, this is no drill...
I am returning to 72 boot camp the 13th.
Never been plumbing so don't know if I will like it, but can see myself bidding to F/O slot asap.
Seems like a waste of time and training to complete the FE program, then 2 days later back to the school house to upgrade to right seat.
Speaking about boot camp, I did spend 5 months in Japan going through the 74 program for a major carrier over there.
Air Law Exam and Radio License Exam sure got yer attention.
Also the pressure they build up before sim training: JCAB very difficult, very difficult, you must study very hard.
This deal with AA is fairly easy compared to nip training. No real pressure on, just many boooring days in system class.
Thanks for the good advise guys and I will see ya'll in Dallas soon.
Ya'll be good, ya heah?
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Men, this is no drill...