BAW287, just woke up London!
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I agree that noise levels are not what they were back in the 70s but then neither is homophobia, bigotry and sexism, and I still think it's worth flagging them as not all that great whenever I come across 'em either. I live between the flight paths of TWO of Londons major airports and love watching 747s diving into the left base turn for the Westerlies as a 146 climbs out of City.
However the closer you get to Heathrow, towards Richmond, Hammersmith etc the more it becomes just a pain. It ruins parts of what ought to be a beautiful city.
Sad thing is I consider the VC10 the "realest" aircraft still flying because of those 4 Rolls Royce Conway engines with the added bonus of real smoke.
btw Surely there's no such thing as a Trident 3A?
IT went 1C / 1E / 2 / 3B (!)
However the closer you get to Heathrow, towards Richmond, Hammersmith etc the more it becomes just a pain. It ruins parts of what ought to be a beautiful city.
Sad thing is I consider the VC10 the "realest" aircraft still flying because of those 4 Rolls Royce Conway engines with the added bonus of real smoke.
btw Surely there's no such thing as a Trident 3A?
IT went 1C / 1E / 2 / 3B (!)
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To go back to the OP, there are many noise abatement procedures in place at LHR, not just fines for breaking the noise limits.
Those limits vary depending on the time of day.
Between 0700 -2300 it's 94dBA.
2330-0600 it's 87dBA.
And the intervening periods 23:00-2330 and 0600-0700 it's 89dBA
Night Quota has nothing to do with the noise limits. During the periods between the clock change, called a season, LHR has a quota of movements
( and overall QC points ) that it cannot break. BA, as an airline with historic night movement has a portion of this quota. This flight would have used 1 movement and 4QC points from BA's allocation for the Winter season.
Hope that helps.
Those limits vary depending on the time of day.
Between 0700 -2300 it's 94dBA.
2330-0600 it's 87dBA.
And the intervening periods 23:00-2330 and 0600-0700 it's 89dBA
Night Quota has nothing to do with the noise limits. During the periods between the clock change, called a season, LHR has a quota of movements
( and overall QC points ) that it cannot break. BA, as an airline with historic night movement has a portion of this quota. This flight would have used 1 movement and 4QC points from BA's allocation for the Winter season.
Hope that helps.
Easterlies?
May be with mixed mode they will consider using 09L for departures which will give us all a break at 6miles out when the "dunlops are dropping" and more power is on, as the majority of arrivals use 09L.
I have no complaints about noise at any time, and we get more outbounds out of hours than Hounslow. Lived in Staines since '73 then moved here - noise = business = income = tax for Govt
I have no complaints about noise at any time, and we get more outbounds out of hours than Hounslow. Lived in Staines since '73 then moved here - noise = business = income = tax for Govt
Just to add that, as covered above (but contrary to certain beliefs) Heathrow is a 24-hour operation airport. But there are restrictions on the number of "night" (defined as 2330-0600) movements.
Time was when these used to be taken by night freight flights in the small hours and some other deep night passenger schedules. But over time operators have tended to concentrate their usage on early morning long-haul passenger arrivals, finding this is their best usage of them.
On average there are about 14 movements per night, which typically (if there is a typical night) is probably made up of one delayed departure and, later in the night, 13 long-haul arrivals, spread over about 0430-0600. Inbounds from Hong Kong tend to be the first in. Actually it's unusual to actually have a touchdown at 0559 as that is "wasting" a slot which could be avoided by arriving a minute later.
By about 0545, if there have been stronger than expected tailwinds across the Atlantic (or lighter than expected across Asia) the stacks around Heathrow can be quite full with those waiting for the end of the restricted period. I am often getting up around this time and our house is about 10 nm from the Lambourne hold, so a look out of the window is a good weather guide in the dark for if it's CAVOK or not, seeing the parade of lights going round.
Not always realised is that immediately after the restrictions finish, for one hour, Heathrow's normal runway alternation between arrivals and departures is not used, and both runways are fully used for arrivals, with parallel approaches. This is because there is not much traffic departing before about 0645, but there are a lot of inbounds.
There is a certain skill in scheduling all this, and BA for example, who have the largest allocation of night slots, will know what the averages are for them having delayed departures which need to use a night slot. They will adjust their inbound arrivals for what they find is the most efficient usage of what remains for them.
If there is an exceptionally severe delay at Heathrow in the evening the Department for Transport can authorise that the limits are suspended, although they are very reluctant to do so.
Incidentally, the "24-hour" aspect applies to aircraft operations. Now, trying to get bags loaded/unloaded, etc, or a cup of coffee in the terminal, at 0200 is another matter altogether.
Time was when these used to be taken by night freight flights in the small hours and some other deep night passenger schedules. But over time operators have tended to concentrate their usage on early morning long-haul passenger arrivals, finding this is their best usage of them.
On average there are about 14 movements per night, which typically (if there is a typical night) is probably made up of one delayed departure and, later in the night, 13 long-haul arrivals, spread over about 0430-0600. Inbounds from Hong Kong tend to be the first in. Actually it's unusual to actually have a touchdown at 0559 as that is "wasting" a slot which could be avoided by arriving a minute later.
By about 0545, if there have been stronger than expected tailwinds across the Atlantic (or lighter than expected across Asia) the stacks around Heathrow can be quite full with those waiting for the end of the restricted period. I am often getting up around this time and our house is about 10 nm from the Lambourne hold, so a look out of the window is a good weather guide in the dark for if it's CAVOK or not, seeing the parade of lights going round.
Not always realised is that immediately after the restrictions finish, for one hour, Heathrow's normal runway alternation between arrivals and departures is not used, and both runways are fully used for arrivals, with parallel approaches. This is because there is not much traffic departing before about 0645, but there are a lot of inbounds.
There is a certain skill in scheduling all this, and BA for example, who have the largest allocation of night slots, will know what the averages are for them having delayed departures which need to use a night slot. They will adjust their inbound arrivals for what they find is the most efficient usage of what remains for them.
If there is an exceptionally severe delay at Heathrow in the evening the Department for Transport can authorise that the limits are suspended, although they are very reluctant to do so.
Incidentally, the "24-hour" aspect applies to aircraft operations. Now, trying to get bags loaded/unloaded, etc, or a cup of coffee in the terminal, at 0200 is another matter altogether.
Last edited by WHBM; 3rd Dec 2008 at 11:31.
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I lived in Cranford (just off the eastern end of 27R) from 1962 to 1976 in a road that was nicknamed 'Jet Alley' by the locals. In those days we had BAC1-11s, Tridents and VC10's arriving and departing, no one really noticed them. When Concorde diverted in after Farnborough Airshow in 1970 (I think) we had the BBC knocking on our door with a camera crew saying "Wasn't Concorde noisy".They could not find anybody who had even noticed it. Mind you I made my Dad drive me up to the northside so I could see it. I agree with some of the other posters that these moaners chose to move to the area knowing there was a huge international airport there, common sense would have told them it would be a noisy area so they have no right to complain about it. Although on a smaller scale I remember reading a few years ago about a towny that moved to the country and complained to the council that the local farmers cockerell was waking him up every morning at 5 o'clock by crowing.I think the council served a noise pollution notice on the farmer and told him to make it crow quieter. Perhaps there is no such thing as common sense these days.
D
D
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WHBM,
Good overview. It reminds me of a night shift on the last day of the month; I was supervising. The airfield manager had informed me that due to some poor weather earlier in the month, nobody had any night quota slots left to use on late departures, so we had to prevent any departures after 2330 that night.
However, as just half an hour later was a new month (0001 on the 1st), that meant all the airlines had a full quota again, and so we could allow departures.
I felt quite sorry for all those around LL that night who went to sleep in the peace and quiet of 2330-0000, thinking all activity had stopped for the night, and were then woken up by a series of departures!
Good overview. It reminds me of a night shift on the last day of the month; I was supervising. The airfield manager had informed me that due to some poor weather earlier in the month, nobody had any night quota slots left to use on late departures, so we had to prevent any departures after 2330 that night.
However, as just half an hour later was a new month (0001 on the 1st), that meant all the airlines had a full quota again, and so we could allow departures.
I felt quite sorry for all those around LL that night who went to sleep in the peace and quiet of 2330-0000, thinking all activity had stopped for the night, and were then woken up by a series of departures!
Last edited by Gonzo; 4th Dec 2008 at 10:52.
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Living in Whitton we get the noise right over our house if they switch to 09 departures.
I have no problem with the night departures but i can see how it would annoy some. My missus didnt realize we were moving next to Heathrow but she never moans. Then again a bomb going off next to her would not wake her.
A more constructive move would be to get the airlines to move to the more modern jets, unlikely to happen quickly I know, as it really is the older 747's that make the loudest noise. I think we all know the roar of a 747 going over but the 'modern' Aircraft just seem to whine. The 380 is quiet considering what weight it is hauling skyward.
Personally I am just gutted we moved there too late to see/hear Concorde.
As an aside I find the noise of the Police helo hovering over some Feltham chav estate all night much more annoying.
I have no problem with the night departures but i can see how it would annoy some. My missus didnt realize we were moving next to Heathrow but she never moans. Then again a bomb going off next to her would not wake her.
A more constructive move would be to get the airlines to move to the more modern jets, unlikely to happen quickly I know, as it really is the older 747's that make the loudest noise. I think we all know the roar of a 747 going over but the 'modern' Aircraft just seem to whine. The 380 is quiet considering what weight it is hauling skyward.
Personally I am just gutted we moved there too late to see/hear Concorde.
As an aside I find the noise of the Police helo hovering over some Feltham chav estate all night much more annoying.
>Living in Whitton we get the noise right over our house if they switch to 09 departures.
Indeed. I used to stay at "The Winning Post" which was smack under one of the SID tracks, and reckon that Whitton suffers more than any other area, especially when all the late-evening heavies are launching. At least traffic heading east, north, and west does an early turn to miss Beautiful Downtown Hounslow, if I recall correctly. The early right turn off 09R takes departures right over residential areas in the early (loud and low) stages.
r
Indeed. I used to stay at "The Winning Post" which was smack under one of the SID tracks, and reckon that Whitton suffers more than any other area, especially when all the late-evening heavies are launching. At least traffic heading east, north, and west does an early turn to miss Beautiful Downtown Hounslow, if I recall correctly. The early right turn off 09R takes departures right over residential areas in the early (loud and low) stages.
r
>The early right off 09R is incredibly impressive when it's a heavy departure but by God they're noisy (!)
Indeed. Try being in a timber-framed Travelodge-type building. Some resonance! It was always interesting to note the later generation being precisely on the same track, whilst "steam and clockwork" types showed some slight variation, but enough to give variation to the noise level.
It always seemed a bit unfair to the residents below this climb-out track, that the heaviest and noisiest traffic was also some of the latest to depart.
Occasionally, someone comes on the BBC to rant about Heathrow being noisier than ever. I recall staying at "The Heston Hilton" BA training centre circa 1982, and being woken by Tridents, 1-11s, and other noisy types from early morning. I stayed in the area recently, and heard very little.
Indeed. Try being in a timber-framed Travelodge-type building. Some resonance! It was always interesting to note the later generation being precisely on the same track, whilst "steam and clockwork" types showed some slight variation, but enough to give variation to the noise level.
It always seemed a bit unfair to the residents below this climb-out track, that the heaviest and noisiest traffic was also some of the latest to depart.
Occasionally, someone comes on the BBC to rant about Heathrow being noisier than ever. I recall staying at "The Heston Hilton" BA training centre circa 1982, and being woken by Tridents, 1-11s, and other noisy types from early morning. I stayed in the area recently, and heard very little.
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Good overview. It reminds me of a night shift on the last day of the month; I was supervising. The airfield manager had informed me that due to some poor weather earlier in the month, nobody had any night quota slots left to use on late departures, so we had to prevent any departures after 2330 that night.
However, as just half an hour later was a new month (0001 on the 1st), that meant all the airlines had a full quota again, and so we could allow departures
However, as just half an hour later was a new month (0001 on the 1st), that meant all the airlines had a full quota again, and so we could allow departures
One silly thing about the noise rules was with a late running arrival and it was hammering down the approach to land before 2330, however if it didn't it would have had to go around so would have actually made a lot more noise thundering over London on the way to Stansted rather than landing a minute later!!
