Wake turbulence incident at Manila International
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Wake turbulence incident at Manila International
Hi Guys!
Forgive me, but this is my first eye witness posting!
Today (April 29), at 12:55 local (Philippine time), I saw a PAL 744 encounter wake turbulence. Where I was, was, approximately 10 KM south, standing on the roof of a 12 story building.
I saw what MIGHT have been either an A330 or 777 landing prior - large twin jet.
What caught my attention was , the 744 was VERY close behind and winding down a very steep glide slope.
On approach, the 744 at approximately 500AGL suddenly rolled right 15 degrees, then left 10 degrees. On the initial right roll, there was a nose down of approximatley 3-5 degree's.
The 744 finally stabilized and began a GA. During the GA, they climbed runway heading (16) to approximately 900AGL and began a left turnout. They then shifted to a RIGHT turnout. Shortly afterwards, they passed directly overhead of where I was, and at that time reduced engine power to normal from TOGA to make a wide left downwind.
What really struck me was that it was obvious that the handling pilot was definitely 'rattled' during the beginning of the GA...what direction, etc. The aircraft didn't become stable until almost overhead (Alabang intersection - still oscillating side to side). Even from 10KM away, this was a scary one to watch!
P.S. How close were they on approach? When the 744 hit the wake turbulence, the preceding aircraft was just completing their flare for landing! The usual is a 7 mile trail minimum at NAIA. Seems like the 744 tried to remain above the preceding aircrafts glide slope...but......
Anyone have any further information? I have a contact with local ATC and am waiting for an update from them, and will post when received.
Forgive me, but this is my first eye witness posting!
Today (April 29), at 12:55 local (Philippine time), I saw a PAL 744 encounter wake turbulence. Where I was, was, approximately 10 KM south, standing on the roof of a 12 story building.
I saw what MIGHT have been either an A330 or 777 landing prior - large twin jet.
What caught my attention was , the 744 was VERY close behind and winding down a very steep glide slope.
On approach, the 744 at approximately 500AGL suddenly rolled right 15 degrees, then left 10 degrees. On the initial right roll, there was a nose down of approximatley 3-5 degree's.
The 744 finally stabilized and began a GA. During the GA, they climbed runway heading (16) to approximately 900AGL and began a left turnout. They then shifted to a RIGHT turnout. Shortly afterwards, they passed directly overhead of where I was, and at that time reduced engine power to normal from TOGA to make a wide left downwind.
What really struck me was that it was obvious that the handling pilot was definitely 'rattled' during the beginning of the GA...what direction, etc. The aircraft didn't become stable until almost overhead (Alabang intersection - still oscillating side to side). Even from 10KM away, this was a scary one to watch!
P.S. How close were they on approach? When the 744 hit the wake turbulence, the preceding aircraft was just completing their flare for landing! The usual is a 7 mile trail minimum at NAIA. Seems like the 744 tried to remain above the preceding aircrafts glide slope...but......
Anyone have any further information? I have a contact with local ATC and am waiting for an update from them, and will post when received.
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What really struck me was that it was obvious that the handling pilot was definitely 'rattled' during the beginning of the GA
I'd be rattled too. I don't expect a 747 pilot has to go around for wake turbulence to often
I'd be rattled too. I don't expect a 747 pilot has to go around for wake turbulence to often
I suppose you mean runway 06, and not 16. (typo)
I was at RPLL last week. we had to land on 06 as well, and the ILS for 06 has been U/S for months now. So: VOR/DME is the only option.
This is not a big deal for the flight crew, but apparently it is for ATC at Manila. When we entered the TMA we had to hold at HANEL wpt for 20 minutes. in the mean time the controller was trying to cope with all the inbound traffic. Then all of a sudden the President of the Philippines decided to take off! (mixed mode ops)
Halted all traffic. Chaos, Chaos.....
This was not the first time that I have seen this kind of chaotic state of traffic congestion at RPLL.
Just to create a picture of an average day at Manila.
I was at RPLL last week. we had to land on 06 as well, and the ILS for 06 has been U/S for months now. So: VOR/DME is the only option.
This is not a big deal for the flight crew, but apparently it is for ATC at Manila. When we entered the TMA we had to hold at HANEL wpt for 20 minutes. in the mean time the controller was trying to cope with all the inbound traffic. Then all of a sudden the President of the Philippines decided to take off! (mixed mode ops)
Halted all traffic. Chaos, Chaos.....
This was not the first time that I have seen this kind of chaotic state of traffic congestion at RPLL.
Just to create a picture of an average day at Manila.
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Fox...yep, was a typo...sorry bout that!
Again, what really caught my attention and had me looking, was the 744 was so close in trail and high. I know that ATC isn't all that great here and that their idea of 'busy' wouldn't even rate to a commuter tower controllers workload in the States. I DIDN'T know that things were as chaotic as you mentioned, though!
We were VMC yesterday at that time...I wonder if the 744 was on a visual approach (since the ILS is out)....maybe trying to save fuel (which it obviously didn't!)??
Again, what really caught my attention and had me looking, was the 744 was so close in trail and high. I know that ATC isn't all that great here and that their idea of 'busy' wouldn't even rate to a commuter tower controllers workload in the States. I DIDN'T know that things were as chaotic as you mentioned, though!
We were VMC yesterday at that time...I wonder if the 744 was on a visual approach (since the ILS is out)....maybe trying to save fuel (which it obviously didn't!)??
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NOPE! I use binoculars! My office is on the 12th floor and faces north. And....for the record....I'M NOT A BLOODY SPOTTER!!!!!!! I have a CPL, ME, IR and have flown light /medium twins and a King Air 90 for a 135 outfit in California! How the bloody h3ll did my thread end up here?? 
This was a SAFETY issue....the 744 D@MN near went in short of the runway!
I wouldn't mind if I had been shipped off to Safety/CRM, or the Asia forum....or even JB....but SPOTTERS?????
P.S. It's probably closer to 7KM south....the 10KM is based on road distance, so my straight line viewpoint is much less.
This was a SAFETY issue....the 744 D@MN near went in short of the runway!
I wouldn't mind if I had been shipped off to Safety/CRM, or the Asia forum....or even JB....but SPOTTERS?????
P.S. It's probably closer to 7KM south....the 10KM is based on road distance, so my straight line viewpoint is much less.
Last edited by PA-28-180; 30th Apr 2008 at 12:11. Reason: add P.S.
PA-numbers ...
Next time please use super powerful zoom video-recording device and get some youtube fame >_<
Sounds nasty - Wake turb is extremely dangerous and varies by vessel. Would a 777 cause more / less wake than an A330?
If I could get a Q in ... At my local airport (Now Haneda, Tokyo - ever so slightly more busy than EIKY) It's mostly heavy traffic. I notice the approach is on a curve up until 2 miles out, does this allow for tighter arrival slots? They seem to pack them in very tight here. It could be noise abatement though ..
Next time please use super powerful zoom video-recording device and get some youtube fame >_<
Sounds nasty - Wake turb is extremely dangerous and varies by vessel. Would a 777 cause more / less wake than an A330?
If I could get a Q in ... At my local airport (Now Haneda, Tokyo - ever so slightly more busy than EIKY) It's mostly heavy traffic. I notice the approach is on a curve up until 2 miles out, does this allow for tighter arrival slots? They seem to pack them in very tight here. It could be noise abatement though ..
