Supersonic red eye
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Estonia
Supersonic red eye
A "Red Eye" flight is eastward flight that flies at night, departing in the evening and arriving in the morning, such that the passengers have very short time for sleep at night, and normally cannot sleep anyway because of cramped shorthaul seating.
Did Concorde fly any red eye flights? With the speed, Concorde could cross a lot of time zones overnight! So, what about setting out to meet the Sun at a supersonic speed?
A real example of a subsonic Red Eye flight. A certain flight departs from Dublin at 00:45 or 1:15 depending on the weekday, and arrives at destination 3 hours of flying and 2 time zones later - 5:45 or 6:15 respectively. It is a Boeing 737-500, with relatively limited comfort (31 inches pitch and no free meals in Economy).
A Concorde has better pitch that subsonic Economy, comparable seat width and better service. And after spending 3...4 hours in a cramped tube exactly as you would on a subsonic narrowbody, you end up much further.
In case of Red Eyes, it would presumably be much more comfortable to fly by Concorde... If you, say, depart 1:00 by subsonic, fly 3:30 and cross 2 timezones, you arrive at your destination 4:30 by body clock, 6.30 locally. Fly the same schedule on a Concorde, crossing 5 timezones... your body clock is likewise 4:30, but the local time at destination is 9:30. Much more sensible time... you do not have to wait (and let your body clock get even more) before the locals wake up and get to work with you.
Is it more comfortable to get to work at 9:00 with your body clock at 7:00 (after subsonic Red Eye) or with body clock at 4:00 (after Concorde Red Eye)?
Of course, Paris is even more, 6 timezones ahead of American east coast. So, in order to show up somewhere in Paris at 9:00 locally, 3:00 body clock time, youŽd need to arrive, like, 7:00 in CDG (1:00 in NY time), departing 21:30 or so from JFK. Reasonable?
Long eastwards flights are not Red Eye flights, because the passenger has time to sleep aboard. But sleeping through a stop is uncomfortable and sometimes not allowed. What about Singapore Airways R class flights? Did they encounter night between Heathrow and Bahrain or between Bahrain and Singapore?
Did Concorde fly any red eye flights? With the speed, Concorde could cross a lot of time zones overnight! So, what about setting out to meet the Sun at a supersonic speed?
A real example of a subsonic Red Eye flight. A certain flight departs from Dublin at 00:45 or 1:15 depending on the weekday, and arrives at destination 3 hours of flying and 2 time zones later - 5:45 or 6:15 respectively. It is a Boeing 737-500, with relatively limited comfort (31 inches pitch and no free meals in Economy).
A Concorde has better pitch that subsonic Economy, comparable seat width and better service. And after spending 3...4 hours in a cramped tube exactly as you would on a subsonic narrowbody, you end up much further.
In case of Red Eyes, it would presumably be much more comfortable to fly by Concorde... If you, say, depart 1:00 by subsonic, fly 3:30 and cross 2 timezones, you arrive at your destination 4:30 by body clock, 6.30 locally. Fly the same schedule on a Concorde, crossing 5 timezones... your body clock is likewise 4:30, but the local time at destination is 9:30. Much more sensible time... you do not have to wait (and let your body clock get even more) before the locals wake up and get to work with you.
Is it more comfortable to get to work at 9:00 with your body clock at 7:00 (after subsonic Red Eye) or with body clock at 4:00 (after Concorde Red Eye)?
Of course, Paris is even more, 6 timezones ahead of American east coast. So, in order to show up somewhere in Paris at 9:00 locally, 3:00 body clock time, youŽd need to arrive, like, 7:00 in CDG (1:00 in NY time), departing 21:30 or so from JFK. Reasonable?
Long eastwards flights are not Red Eye flights, because the passenger has time to sleep aboard. But sleeping through a stop is uncomfortable and sometimes not allowed. What about Singapore Airways R class flights? Did they encounter night between Heathrow and Bahrain or between Bahrain and Singapore?
Joined: Oct 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: London UK
1980 timetable
British Airways BA17 Mon Wed Fri
London Heathrow 1530
Bahrain 2140/2240
Singapore 0715
Air France AF86 Wed Sun
Rio de Janeiro 1840
Dakar 0050/0150
Paris 0640
The original intention was that one Concorde would be able to achieve TWO return flights each 24 hours between London/Paris and New York, the second eastbound flight being necessarily overnight. This level of utilisation never happened in practice.
British Airways BA17 Mon Wed Fri
London Heathrow 1530
Bahrain 2140/2240
Singapore 0715
Air France AF86 Wed Sun
Rio de Janeiro 1840
Dakar 0050/0150
Paris 0640
The original intention was that one Concorde would be able to achieve TWO return flights each 24 hours between London/Paris and New York, the second eastbound flight being necessarily overnight. This level of utilisation never happened in practice.
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Surrey Hills
Don't remember any nighttime departures from the USA to UK. Thing is Concorde took barely 3 hours to cross, sometimes in the 2 hours 50 something minutes bracket. Cabin pressure was much nearer sea level than subsonic cabins, humidity was much nearer normal levels so one emerged elated at having flown at Mach 2+, near 60,000 feet and full of good food and wine! The red-eye factor just never happened whatever time one flew East in the finest passenger aircraft ever to fly - so far! The Washington - Dulles International Airport Mobile Lounge system was the greatest blast. You checked in and sat in the departure lounge, the announcement that departure was commencing meant that the entire Lounge lowered [scissor lift] down and drove out to the Concorde. Driven by FAA licensed pilot/drivers. What a blast!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washing...tional_Airport
Find Mobile Lounge section
Eero Saarinen was the Architect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washing...tional_Airport
Find Mobile Lounge section
Eero Saarinen was the Architect
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 262
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From: Always Travelling, Never Arriving
No JFK-LHR redeye because if the flight departed JFK just before the night jet ban started it would arrive at LHR just before the night jet ban ended at LHR. Timings too tight and impractical. Far more comfy to do the Eaastbound in First/Club where you get a decent night's sleep.
People did do the Concorde Cannonball - leave LHR at 1030, get to JFK at 0920. Do the business. Leave JFK at 1325 arrive LHR at 2225 (ish).
People did do the Concorde Cannonball - leave LHR at 1030, get to JFK at 0920. Do the business. Leave JFK at 1325 arrive LHR at 2225 (ish).
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 834
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From: Estonia
if the flight departed JFK just before the night jet ban started it would arrive at LHR just before the night jet ban ended at LHR. Timings too tight and impractical.
