The answer to all our secrets
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I saw a few planes that appear to be flying as if they're travelling in a diagonal line to their heading.
Also can be due to looking at fixed reference points. Saw a Tornado on Monday low flying in the distance. it looked as though it was in level flight at an extreme 30 - 40 degree nose up attiude, the second a/c of the pair appeared level. Realised it was my brain being tricked by the reference points is was comparing it to!
Last edited by west lakes; 22nd Jun 2007 at 11:01. Reason: spelling
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Question About The 737-300 Series
i was on a KLM 737-300 flight from Schipol Amsterdam to Aberdeen today, and i was sitting in row 18f behind the wing and engines. I noticed once we took off and much turbulence a flap opened on the first pod on the wing behind the engine..... inside it looked like a cap was there... was it an inspection flap?? should it have been open??? it was above a slightly risen bit on the wing transparent looking?? was it the fuel pump access flap?? was it right to be open????
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....a flap opened on the first pod on the wing behind the engine....
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Give the man a break
He's obviously just a pax who doesn't know the technicalities between flaps/spoiler/inspection panels. His description is accurate enough to be able to understand that what was seen was an inspection/access panel. What exactly it's access to is irrelevant in my opinion. As for whether it should have opened, the answer to that is certainly not, but it's not a problem these things do occasionaly open if they haven't been closed properly after regular maintenance. It just requires closing/replacing when you reach destination/maintenance base dependent on whether it's been damaged or not.
Hope that answer helps you out.
Hope that answer helps you out.
One time I noticed a oval opening in the pylon above the engine. After landing they brought a ladder to that area but I left so it could have been anything. Curious, I watched next flight. There when we took off, but open after landing. I figured that was normal then.
What's up with that?
What's up with that?
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access panel
Ok yes it must have been an inspection access point... To be clearer to the person who dosent understand...
I was sitting behing the wings, and you know how a wing has the white bits to help the flaps extend, the first one seems to be behind the engine and appears to lok like a fuel tank to me??? am i right guys???? above the hole was at the side of the pod and the pod leads to the engine under the wing..... if you follow it with your eyes..
I got very nervous at 24k feet and this flapping around and i take it was access to the fuel pump is that right???
i am a very technically minded 32 yr old woman and trying to learn!!! was annoyed it was open
I was sitting behing the wings, and you know how a wing has the white bits to help the flaps extend, the first one seems to be behind the engine and appears to lok like a fuel tank to me??? am i right guys???? above the hole was at the side of the pod and the pod leads to the engine under the wing..... if you follow it with your eyes..
I got very nervous at 24k feet and this flapping around and i take it was access to the fuel pump is that right???
i am a very technically minded 32 yr old woman and trying to learn!!! was annoyed it was open
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Right you lot settle down! I asked the lady perfectly nicely (for me) to explain more fully exactly where and what she was talking about.
Is this it? http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1170415/M/
No doubt an engineer will explain- I only count wings on my walkaround- 2 in number (hopefully). However it is not an important panel (the one on top of the fairing in front of the teardrop thingy?). It carries no load.
You might not believe it, but even the mighty 747, whose flap fairings (it just hides all the mechanism for holding and driving the flap out) are as large as bathtubs are broad, can fly without the fairing fitted. When they crack (they are only fibreglass), they are removed altogether from that position until a new spare can be delivered. It exposes all the mechanism to the air. Is it important? Not in the least. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0595976/M/
So if the whole darn fairing is not needed, a little access panel in the fairing is less important than brushing your teeth at night to prevent decay if you wear dentures anyway.
Is this it? http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1170415/M/
No doubt an engineer will explain- I only count wings on my walkaround- 2 in number (hopefully). However it is not an important panel (the one on top of the fairing in front of the teardrop thingy?). It carries no load.
You might not believe it, but even the mighty 747, whose flap fairings (it just hides all the mechanism for holding and driving the flap out) are as large as bathtubs are broad, can fly without the fairing fitted. When they crack (they are only fibreglass), they are removed altogether from that position until a new spare can be delivered. It exposes all the mechanism to the air. Is it important? Not in the least. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0595976/M/
So if the whole darn fairing is not needed, a little access panel in the fairing is less important than brushing your teeth at night to prevent decay if you wear dentures anyway.
Last edited by Rainboe; 25th Jun 2007 at 21:02.
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ok that now makes sense. I wish i could fly a 737 ort anything for that matter!!!
You been flying long??
no thats the flaps as you know see the pod like thing that support the flaps to move the hole was in the side of it
ok reading my threads i dont think i described it very well. I will try again.
Wings and flaps were normal
If you look at the wing from the window looking out you see the back of engine (if you behind it) and three white or silver pod like things attached to the wing i think they help the flaps extend....
The closest is in line with the engine at the back and looks a slightly different shape?? a fuel tank perhaps???
It had a compartment looking bit that blew open and the hole was in the side of this pod like thing and you could see inside it it looked like a cap or something????
its not the wing iteslf if you look at the pic its not the wing its the bit that sticks out and stays straight when the flaps go down like the pic is there but it was the one closest to the window behind the engine
if you look at the picture, see how the flaps have extended... the big solid straight bit that hasnt, one of them!!! now the hole that was open was at the side so you could have put your hand in and it would have ended up under the risen dome bit as you see in picture... is that the fuelpump??
do pilots inspect all the doors/panels/hatches etc on a plane before they fly or is it th engineers job
You been flying long??
no thats the flaps as you know see the pod like thing that support the flaps to move the hole was in the side of it
ok reading my threads i dont think i described it very well. I will try again.
Wings and flaps were normal
If you look at the wing from the window looking out you see the back of engine (if you behind it) and three white or silver pod like things attached to the wing i think they help the flaps extend....
The closest is in line with the engine at the back and looks a slightly different shape?? a fuel tank perhaps???
It had a compartment looking bit that blew open and the hole was in the side of this pod like thing and you could see inside it it looked like a cap or something????
its not the wing iteslf if you look at the pic its not the wing its the bit that sticks out and stays straight when the flaps go down like the pic is there but it was the one closest to the window behind the engine
if you look at the picture, see how the flaps have extended... the big solid straight bit that hasnt, one of them!!! now the hole that was open was at the side so you could have put your hand in and it would have ended up under the risen dome bit as you see in picture... is that the fuelpump??
do pilots inspect all the doors/panels/hatches etc on a plane before they fly or is it th engineers job
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I think Mairi is right. If a passenger can notice that. Why can't ground or flight crew?
If a really nervous passenger notices something like that. It could send them into a plind panic. Think on KLM
If a really nervous passenger notices something like that. It could send them into a plind panic. Think on KLM
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Mairi, I don't know what the risen teardrop domey thing is at the top, but on the side of this fairing, as far as I remember, you have channels, or tracks that a sticky outy thing on the ends and sides of the flaps run in. Inside the big fairing is a very large broom handle metal thing (screwjack) with a thick thread on it. This turns rapidly, and a large nut thing attached to the flap runs up and down it the screwjack. This makes the flaps move backwards and forwards, and the channel in the side of the fairing, into which the end of the flap thing runs, curves, making the flaps angle downwards according to how far they run along the screwjack. I don't recall a panel there because the flap would scrunch it. I think you saw the channel and it was meant to do that.
Now BOAC has been flying the beast for far longer than me, so I now hand over to him, he heap smart.............
Now BOAC has been flying the beast for far longer than me, so I now hand over to him, he heap smart.............
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tech stuff
Im not blaming KLM big frankie but maybe we have a point here??? Perhaps i am too nervous??? I am used to paying incredible attn to detail and maybe too much, but i just would like to know whats potentially dangerous and whats not its nae fun at 24k ft!!! a hole does not look good!!! But perhaps its normal??
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Time to close the panel on this one, I feel.
No it should not have been open - most likely an engineer's error, but it could have been a failure of the fasteners.
It is very difficult to check all the panels on an aeroplane - counting wings is enough for some
It would almost certainly not cause a problem in flight, but panels coming open/falling on people on the ground - not good.
If you see this again, ask the cabin crew. They should be able to judge whether or not a pilot needs to come and have a look
I think we can close this one with Mairi a little wiser. If she wants to learn a little more, this excellent web site will help.
http://www.b737.org.uk/flightcontrols.htm
No it should not have been open - most likely an engineer's error, but it could have been a failure of the fasteners.
It is very difficult to check all the panels on an aeroplane - counting wings is enough for some
It would almost certainly not cause a problem in flight, but panels coming open/falling on people on the ground - not good.
If you see this again, ask the cabin crew. They should be able to judge whether or not a pilot needs to come and have a look
I think we can close this one with Mairi a little wiser. If she wants to learn a little more, this excellent web site will help.
http://www.b737.org.uk/flightcontrols.htm
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Hi Mairi.
As usual. we'll get told what we want to hear from the big wigs. It's good to see others on this forum have got OUR intrests at heart.
I hope you weren't to distressed with the incident?
As usual. we'll get told what we want to hear from the big wigs. It's good to see others on this forum have got OUR intrests at heart.
I hope you weren't to distressed with the incident?
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I've wanted to know what this was all about for some years...
About 10 years ago, I was sitting, as I still do now, watching the comings and goings at Liverpool. A 737 lined up on rwy 27, then throttled up and rolled to take off...
...as I watched it through binoculars, I saw a panel, about (?) 10+ feet behind the wing, on the underside was most definitely OPEN!!
I phoned the airport on my mobile to tell them what I'd seen, never heard anything from it??
Any ideas?
...as I watched it through binoculars, I saw a panel, about (?) 10+ feet behind the wing, on the underside was most definitely OPEN!!
I phoned the airport on my mobile to tell them what I'd seen, never heard anything from it??
Any ideas?
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Hi clifftop....
I've thought about your comments, and the only access doors in that sort of area are the potable water and toilet servicing doors, unless it was an AEW&C 737 in which case it may have been the aft EWSP system magazine(s), but then again, you may also have noticed the surfboard on the top!
Just kidding...FD..
I've thought about your comments, and the only access doors in that sort of area are the potable water and toilet servicing doors, unless it was an AEW&C 737 in which case it may have been the aft EWSP system magazine(s), but then again, you may also have noticed the surfboard on the top!
Just kidding...FD..
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FAO Mairi
The 'sticky out' bits you refer to on the wing are the boat or canoe fairings.They provide an aerodynamic covering for the trailing edge flap drive system.The Number 3 and 6 fairings behind the engines are shaped differently from the others.The inboard flap section runs from the fuselage body fairing into these (The flap outboard of the engines is a totally different section).There is a channel cut out of the inboard face of the engine pylon boat fairing at production which allows the flap mechanism to run back along its track(which is hidden by the fairing).When the flaps are up this hole is filled by a spring loaded plate,referred to by Boeing as the 'Inboard Flap Midflap Torque Shaft Clearance Door'.
The CDL -an approved document that shows the crews and us engineers what panels/doors/components the a/c can fly without -allows the 737-300 to fly minus both these doors (one on each wing) with only a minimal enroute climb fuel penalty.Perfectly legal and perfectly safe.
We use this gap to access the flaps for part of their lubrication procedure but,trust me,it's not a panel you can manually open or leave 'undone'.The spring is very strong and the door is only opened and closed by extending/retracting the flaps.
Hope this helps!
The CDL -an approved document that shows the crews and us engineers what panels/doors/components the a/c can fly without -allows the 737-300 to fly minus both these doors (one on each wing) with only a minimal enroute climb fuel penalty.Perfectly legal and perfectly safe.
We use this gap to access the flaps for part of their lubrication procedure but,trust me,it's not a panel you can manually open or leave 'undone'.The spring is very strong and the door is only opened and closed by extending/retracting the flaps.
Hope this helps!