Interesting Approach

[MungoP]

Thanks for those excellent photo's Shetlander... Flying in and out of Sumburgh was almost a daily occurance for a few years back in the early '90's... such a commonplace thing I didn't think to take photo's... good to see it again ( from a distance ! )...as I said earlier, must have landed there a couple of hundred times and it was never the same place twice !
As regards the comment that prompted this thread.. I have no doubt that the guys operating up around the Scottish islands very quickly become above average stick and rudder pilots... it's a tough environment. Having said that, when the freight aboard is of the self-loading variety a bit of consideration might not be out of place... many pax are a little nervous though they'd rarely admit it and steeper than usual turns close to the ground, perfectly safe as they may be, can get their pulses racing so why not give it the extra few yards and soften it up for them... when you can.

[ecj]

LSI Landing 33

Acrossing abeam the lighthouse at 600 ft on a continuous curved left base approach is how I was taught on the Shorts 360. Probably holds good for Saab these days as well. Can get bumpy when the wind has an easterly component.

A mini version of the old Hong Kong approach? No chequer boards at LSI, simply good old fashioned mark one eye ball.

[Seloco]

Although pax comments don't seem to be welcome on this thread for some reason, I'm going to have one more go. My main experience of "unusual" airports has been limited to Orange County (aka John Wayne Int.) and Firenza. Both of these require max energy take-offs in certain circumstances, which are outside regular pax experience. On each occasion I have done this, the captain concerned has given a brief, factual explanation of what is about to happen and why. Result: comforted customers who did not feel the urge to complain afterwards about something unusual.

I believe that passengers do appreciate relevant communication from the flightdeck - just make sure that the aircraft PA system allows it to be heard (by no means always the case....).

[Tubbs]

I wouldn't say the Pax comments are unwelcome, just pax comments that are judgemental without having the full facts. We certainly try at all times to fly in a way that does not alarm the passengers (bank angle, smooth pitch movements etc), but I think that droopy's comments stuck in the craw because he was claiming that because of his 'expert' background, his observations from the back were more valid than another non-airline slf. I would be more than happy to defend/justify/explain if the observations/questions are not phrased aggressively.

[eyeinthesky]

As another 'stick and rudder' commercial pilot, I wonder whether Droopystop is correctly understanding the concept of a 'stabilised approach'. Surely it is a situation where the aircraft is configured for landing and is in a position from which a smooth transition from flight to landing can be made. This can be achieved at 3 miles or whatever on an ILS, or on a tight circling base leg on a visual approach.

Some people place far too much store in doing it by numbers...

[ironbutt57]

In a 767 we are required to meet the stabilized criterion by 500' aal when flying a visual pattern (downwind/base/final)..which allows about a 1.5 mile final...gee that's a nice hill there on final...nice foto's wish I got to fly like that for a change...and miss the 360 as well..."Irish Concorde"

[exlatccatsa]

I never saw the islander make a straight in to 33. However I do remember the day the Maersk 737 did... That was spectacular!!
In my opinion the best approach to Sumburgh is left hand to 15 .. inside the hill...you have to touch down left wheel first as you're still in the turn!!

[UKpaxman]

Originally Posted by exlatccatsa

I never saw the islander make a straight in to 33. However I do remember the day the Maersk 737 did... That was spectacular!!
In my opinion the best approach to Sumburgh is left hand to 15 .. inside the hill...you have to touch down left wheel first as you're still in the turn!!

Flamin heck - you remember that I read about it in an old copy of the Shetland Times - was it 1975 or thereabouts? Did it really land on rw33?

When I read it I did wonder if the paper had made a mistook with the type of aircraft - if I remember it was a divert from Denmark to Faroe, was it freight or pax? Guess they waited for a windy day before they tried to depart again.

[hobie]

desperate photo but the only one I could find ....

http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk...58991&sp=SItem

[UKpaxman]

Originally Posted by hobie

desperate photo but the only one I could find ....

http://photos.shetland-museum.org.uk...58991&sp=SItem

I was going to ask if anyone had a piccie - wish I'd seen that landing

[Mister Geezer]

Ah Sumburgh.... it's good for the soul! I normally end up in Sumburgh on weather diversions so I don't normally visit when the weather is at its best!

Flying in and out of Shetland is without doubt the best flying I have and will ever do! Great fun!

[shetlander]

I didnt know that there is so many people on this forum with connections to Sumburgh. It gives me a kind of buzz since Sumburgh is my local and it ist that well knowen.

By the way as regards to the 737 landing at Sumburgh it is completelly true. There is quite allot of pictures of the event, but sadly none in full colour.

Cheers,
Shetlander

[Longchop]

A visual approach is a visual approach and thats that!! Height gates and obstacle clearance based purely on the pilots view out of the window! turning at 0.5NM sounds like long finals to me!!

[soddim]

Surely if you roll out of the finals turn before the inside wing hits the ground and flare before the u/c reaches terra firma too firmly, the slf has nothing to complain about - or is that the problem?

[barit1]

It never hurts to watch for moving obstacles

[bubbers44]

I loved my last few years flying a 757 into TGU Honduras. Throw the rule book out. 1200 FPM to flair with a final turn to landing about 100 feet. Fun and always an applause from the passengers. They are just happy to be there.

[exlatccatsa]

There are colour pictures of the Maersk event!
Not the mid 70's landing but the one in the early 80's, Unfortunately, they'reall "Doon Sooth" at the moment awaiting the removal truck.. I'll post them when I find them.. didn't know the new museum might be interested in them!
To Shetlander: Boy du niver kens wha's oot yunder!

[tascats]

Would this qualify as an interesting approach?

Heavy Lift

Apparently this was it turning to land on 15.

[Inverted81]

If thats for 15, he's C**ked that up slightly. looks like a nice sedate visual onto 09 (as it says below the pic).. i'm sure the residents of Toab have seen some interesting things in their time.

Watching some of the visual apps on radar looks quite hairy, turning inside Fitfull, and Compass, now THATS proper flying! Apparently the Scandinavians are some of the only guys who like to fly OVER Compass on arrival to 33 and departure from 15. Now i'd like to see that.

I've read a lot about the er hmm, Loganair crews. Whenever i deal with the guys and gals they are definitely capable with the situations up there. Last week the winds were gusting 55-60kts, and watching the groundspeed of the SF34's on app to 09 was amazing, amazing flying all . When it comes to operating into a field where the winds can be so strong that the ground movements have to be restricted, takes a lot of skill.
Sumburgh a sleepy hollow.... NEVER!

[exlatccatsa]

For those who have never been there, I found these pictures of the approach to 15 at Sumburgh.(google sumburgh and click on images). scroll along to the 4th and 5th along.
www.aeden.plus.com/shetland/thumbs/05.jpg
Unfortunately you can't really see the runway.. its in between the beaches.. this guy seems a bit high, the last time I flew in there the lighthouse was level, if not above us.