Security...what a joke!
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Penko, you are absolutely right! How rude of me to comment on an event which could have threatened the security of the aircraft I was flying. I should just keep that sort of thing to myself. Obviously, this was the wrong place to make any observation of that type. Bite me!!!
You 'll just have to forgive me for suggesting that as far as security is concerned, SLF might not have the same insight or direct interest on a day to day basis as I (or any other flight crew) do. Don't tell me I don't understand security. I know what I expect of security, and the events of the other day just don't cut it. I've been allowed on as a passenger with a leatherman. Is that OK?
The whole purpose of this forum, as I understand it, is to allow Professional Pilots to talk freely about things which affect their jobs/lives.
If you think that allowing pax onto an a/c with a pint glass, metal knives and forks is OK and shouldn't be disccussed, then I hope you are never in a position where you or a member of your crew are threatened with such.
If a pax is stupid enough to smuggle a pint glass onto the a/c, then he is probably drunk enough, and who is to say that if challenged, he would not use it as a weapon. Would you like to see your cabin crew with a broken glass in their face?
All this may very well have been discussed before, but if through talking about it, someone in a position to improve it listens, then surely its a good thing.
JF
You 'll just have to forgive me for suggesting that as far as security is concerned, SLF might not have the same insight or direct interest on a day to day basis as I (or any other flight crew) do. Don't tell me I don't understand security. I know what I expect of security, and the events of the other day just don't cut it. I've been allowed on as a passenger with a leatherman. Is that OK?
The whole purpose of this forum, as I understand it, is to allow Professional Pilots to talk freely about things which affect their jobs/lives.
If you think that allowing pax onto an a/c with a pint glass, metal knives and forks is OK and shouldn't be disccussed, then I hope you are never in a position where you or a member of your crew are threatened with such.
If a pax is stupid enough to smuggle a pint glass onto the a/c, then he is probably drunk enough, and who is to say that if challenged, he would not use it as a weapon. Would you like to see your cabin crew with a broken glass in their face?
All this may very well have been discussed before, but if through talking about it, someone in a position to improve it listens, then surely its a good thing.
JF
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Security on board
So what happens these days if a crazy stands up in flight clutching something that might or might not be a detonator (for example little black box with a big red button and an antenna) and declares that he's stashed a bomb in the hold and is prepared to blow everyone up he doesn't get access to the cockpit and a detour? Would anyone say "Security is ace; I don't believe you"?
You still get proper glasses and wine bottles on board anyway if you're prepared to pay for a premium cabin. I'm not sure if that's every airline but it's certainly true of BA
You still get proper glasses and wine bottles on board anyway if you're prepared to pay for a premium cabin. I'm not sure if that's every airline but it's certainly true of BA
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VS1711,
Whilst on a BA flight from Stockholm-Heathrow flight my travelling partner asked if he could keep the knive and fork that we were given on board, to which the CC agreed. However, from Heathrow to GLasgow, they were taken off him at security, only to be given a new set on board again!
Madness.
JF
Whilst on a BA flight from Stockholm-Heathrow flight my travelling partner asked if he could keep the knive and fork that we were given on board, to which the CC agreed. However, from Heathrow to GLasgow, they were taken off him at security, only to be given a new set on board again!
Madness.
JF
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Vs1711, I think that no pilot will ever open the door with a threat these days. 9/11 has shown people the worst case scenario when you chose to "detour", so you have a choice... Land, and take your chances or Submit and take your chances. The first is the better option IMHO and holds the chance that you and everyone else will survive if he is bluffing. The second, well, just take a look at 9/11.....
Last edited by On speed on profile; 7th Jun 2006 at 12:35.
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I had to laugh on my way into work last night! At Gatwick, there is an opportunity for airport staff to discuss "Security Improvement" with the BAA today between 09.00 and 14.00 (I'm on nights so no opportunity to go and amuse myself!)
What sort of a joke is this - at a time that Ferrovia are taking over and BAA is hell-bent on saving as many shekels as it can and shedding front-line jobs, how can it offer "Security Improvement"?
I think we, as airline staff, are going to have to be more vigilant than ever because the responsibility for our security has been given to retired servicemen (who, not intending being unkind here, couldn't pass a Battle Fitness Test any more) or economic migrants with no traceable Criminal Record Check because they haven't lived here for five years! Additionally, our own airlines are trying to break down every security barrier - self check in so that the passenger isn't seen by any staff till they are on the aeroplane!
Unfortunately, security takes second place to commercial pressures and I share Jockflyer's concerns!
What sort of a joke is this - at a time that Ferrovia are taking over and BAA is hell-bent on saving as many shekels as it can and shedding front-line jobs, how can it offer "Security Improvement"?
I think we, as airline staff, are going to have to be more vigilant than ever because the responsibility for our security has been given to retired servicemen (who, not intending being unkind here, couldn't pass a Battle Fitness Test any more) or economic migrants with no traceable Criminal Record Check because they haven't lived here for five years! Additionally, our own airlines are trying to break down every security barrier - self check in so that the passenger isn't seen by any staff till they are on the aeroplane!
Unfortunately, security takes second place to commercial pressures and I share Jockflyer's concerns!
Originally Posted by bealine
self check in so that the passenger isn't seen by any staff till they are on the aeroplane!
And we all know to answer "yes they have" because if we answer anything else our bags will be opened and the contents all mangled, and we will possibly miss our flight while waiting for this to be done as well, as a punishment for answering in any other manner than the prescribed one.
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On a related issue
This question is more for the paying punters but is there anyone else who would like to join the Iris scheme but finds it impossible to get to the enrolment office while they're open?
I pass the airside office at T4 at least once a week (sometimes two or three times) but always before they open at 0730. If it was land-side I'd make the trip at the weekend but as things stand I can't so I often stand for up to forty minutes at immigration on arrival home (of course the Fast Track shuts at lunchtime). Usually I don't see anyone using the Iris recognition in that time. Contrast this with Schiphol where their machines often have queues at peak time.
I asked the guy at immigration about it once. Apparently they've rented the cheapest space they could get their hands on.
I pass the airside office at T4 at least once a week (sometimes two or three times) but always before they open at 0730. If it was land-side I'd make the trip at the weekend but as things stand I can't so I often stand for up to forty minutes at immigration on arrival home (of course the Fast Track shuts at lunchtime). Usually I don't see anyone using the Iris recognition in that time. Contrast this with Schiphol where their machines often have queues at peak time.
I asked the guy at immigration about it once. Apparently they've rented the cheapest space they could get their hands on.
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Originally Posted by Jockflyer
ph-ndr
As you are (self confessed) SLF, I would suggest that while you may have an opinion, I don't think it appropriate for you to come on a Professional Pilots website, and tell us that we should all stop commmenting on the lack of security which threatens us every day of our working life.
Sometimes we just want to have a moan about it. I myself just wanted to find out if others had a similar thing happen to them.
So, your comments are welcome, just don't tell (or suggest to) me what I can or can't say on a forum for my industry. I don't go on IT websites bumping my gums!
Cheers
JF
As you are (self confessed) SLF, I would suggest that while you may have an opinion, I don't think it appropriate for you to come on a Professional Pilots website, and tell us that we should all stop commmenting on the lack of security which threatens us every day of our working life.
Sometimes we just want to have a moan about it. I myself just wanted to find out if others had a similar thing happen to them.
So, your comments are welcome, just don't tell (or suggest to) me what I can or can't say on a forum for my industry. I don't go on IT websites bumping my gums!
Cheers
JF
Security is but a mindset, untill given context and motives by humans. In most cases following the money works quite well in sorting the context and motives.
Also, keep on piling on the good stories of how ignorant and stupid situations can crop up in the name of security, after all, when then day has wound down and the stress is gone, a good bit of these makes for a good laugh.
And finally, I'd never tell you how to do your job, even though I know my share of security and also how it applies in this world, I have no grounds to tell anyone in here anything about how to fly a plane, or even comment on it. I've lurked here for a good few years and I'll mainly stick to that, but I felt I could add something by trying to shed some light on how airport/airline security is misunderstood on a daily basis by most people, even those who face it daily, either as proffesionals or SLF.
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Bealine, is self check-in any less secure than asking passengers damn-fool questions like "Have the bags been with you at all times"
However, if nothing else, we are able to spot if someone has been drinking heavily or if someone appears excessively nervous or anxious! Passengers who make last minute bookings and travel with only light luggage need special scrutiny (based on previous history of terrorism) - particularly if they travel First or Business Class (front of aeroplane).
Bit by bit, the whole safety and security of our airports is being dismantled - sacrificed to the god of commercial pressure!
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Penko, you are absolutely right! How rude of me to comment on an event which could have threatened the security of the aircraft I was flying. I should just keep that sort of thing to myself. Obviously, this was the wrong place to make any observation of that type. Bite me!!!
JF ,how can a pint glass threaten the security of an aircraft.The most important thing to establish here is weather this "pint glass" contained a well knowen irish beer?
I have quite often walked onto an aircraft with a glass bottle containing either tango or coke.I also carry several pens,a heavy laptop and a hard back copy of the latest best selling novel..all these items could be used as lethal weapons.JF...ur name suggests your scottish,you have the most lethal weapon of all, the glasgow kiss(using your forehead to cause severe injury) for you english folks.
Im sure the safety of "your aircraft" wasnt under that much threat but by going on about this uve given a whole load of irish folks some really good ideas..get a grip and the next time u see an irish man with a pint glass thats empty offer to buy him a drink.
Penko, you are absolutely right! How rude of me to comment on an event which could have threatened the security of the aircraft I was flying. I should just keep that sort of thing to myself. Obviously, this was the wrong place to make any observation of that type. Bite me!!!
JF ,how can a pint glass threaten the security of an aircraft.The most important thing to establish here is weather this "pint glass" contained a well knowen irish beer?
I have quite often walked onto an aircraft with a glass bottle containing either tango or coke.I also carry several pens,a heavy laptop and a hard back copy of the latest best selling novel..all these items could be used as lethal weapons.JF...ur name suggests your scottish,you have the most lethal weapon of all, the glasgow kiss(using your forehead to cause severe injury) for you english folks.
Im sure the safety of "your aircraft" wasnt under that much threat but by going on about this uve given a whole load of irish folks some really good ideas..get a grip and the next time u see an irish man with a pint glass thats empty offer to buy him a drink.
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OUR local airport (NCL EGNT) won't let you through 'security' with a capped cardboard cone of Costa coffee (not available 'airside').
Say it's 'for security'.
Have had to stand and finish a full cup before being allowed through.
Ever been threatened with a cardboard cup of hot (but rapidly cooling) coffee?
Say it's 'for security'.
Have had to stand and finish a full cup before being allowed through.
Ever been threatened with a cardboard cup of hot (but rapidly cooling) coffee?
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Recently at Stanstead as a passenger I had to give up a pair of very blunt-ended scissors which I had inadvertantly left in my crew bag. I felt like pointing out to these very bright secuity men that I could go and legally purchase a couple of glass bottles of say vodka, take them on board, go to the toilet, smash them, light the alcohol to start a fire and use the smashed bottle tops as far more serious and dangerous weapons than my blunt ended scissors.
If I had I would probably been arrested as a terrorist and at the very least missed my flight. So I kept quiet.This so called security is an expensive game to make us all feel more safe despite the fact that 3500 people die on the roads every year and thousands more injured (some for life) ie the equivalent to quite a large number of 747s crashing every year without a concern from anybody. So why is everybody feeling save when it is infinitely more dangerous than flying?
If I had I would probably been arrested as a terrorist and at the very least missed my flight. So I kept quiet.This so called security is an expensive game to make us all feel more safe despite the fact that 3500 people die on the roads every year and thousands more injured (some for life) ie the equivalent to quite a large number of 747s crashing every year without a concern from anybody. So why is everybody feeling save when it is infinitely more dangerous than flying?
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OUR local airport (NCL EGNT) won't let you through 'security' with a capped cardboard cone of Costa coffee (not available 'airside').
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In Geneva you can even buy Swiss knives beyond security !! When I asked the shop assistant how could it possibly be allowed, she replied that according to Swiss Law, you can have a Swiss knive in your possession on board an aircraft. Then, she showed me a list of airlines that do not accept that. So she added "unless you are flying with these.". This list included BA, but not my airline.
Sadly, I have to agree with ph-ndr. It is all a gimick to make people believe they are secure.
Bobdbuilder
Sadly, I have to agree with ph-ndr. It is all a gimick to make people believe they are secure.
Bobdbuilder
A girl I used to work with as crew used to LOVE security.
Every day she would pack her bag with half a dozen assorted sex toys, rush through the walk through scanner, then watch the faces of the screeners as her bag flashed up on screen.
Personally, I find that if I dress/pack appropriately, security is no hassel. Particularly if in uniform. Straight to the front of the line, bag goes straight through, no beeps if you have the right shoes/belt (can be hit and miss there), and bingo, a completely painless 30 second delay in getting to the aircraft.
I agree, its all a bit theatrical for my liking - especially when you walk past builders renovating an airside retail outlet, with their assorted 'saws', 'nail guns' and other fun dangerous toys laying about. If someone was very determined to do some damage, they could.
You are only supposedly protected if you fly on an airline/aircraft operating a service from a secured airport. I know that at least in this country, theres planes flying around with up to 99 pax on charter, with no screening.
Every day she would pack her bag with half a dozen assorted sex toys, rush through the walk through scanner, then watch the faces of the screeners as her bag flashed up on screen.
Personally, I find that if I dress/pack appropriately, security is no hassel. Particularly if in uniform. Straight to the front of the line, bag goes straight through, no beeps if you have the right shoes/belt (can be hit and miss there), and bingo, a completely painless 30 second delay in getting to the aircraft.
I agree, its all a bit theatrical for my liking - especially when you walk past builders renovating an airside retail outlet, with their assorted 'saws', 'nail guns' and other fun dangerous toys laying about. If someone was very determined to do some damage, they could.
You are only supposedly protected if you fly on an airline/aircraft operating a service from a secured airport. I know that at least in this country, theres planes flying around with up to 99 pax on charter, with no screening.
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BanterManter
If you don't know how a pint glass can be used as a weapon, then you haven't been drinking in some of the pubs near where I live. As an ex barman, I've seen what someone looks like with a smashed pint glass in their face, and I can tell you it's a lot worse than been hit with a hardback copy of the Da Vinci Code.
Its all a fuss about nothing until it happens to you.
JF
If you don't know how a pint glass can be used as a weapon, then you haven't been drinking in some of the pubs near where I live. As an ex barman, I've seen what someone looks like with a smashed pint glass in their face, and I can tell you it's a lot worse than been hit with a hardback copy of the Da Vinci Code.
Its all a fuss about nothing until it happens to you.
JF
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Agreed jockflyer..
I saw a guys face turn into a bloody jigsaw puzzle with a pint glass to the face...
I also have seen a girls face and head destroyed by a pint glass dropped from a very short height...
I saw a guys face turn into a bloody jigsaw puzzle with a pint glass to the face...
I also have seen a girls face and head destroyed by a pint glass dropped from a very short height...
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"HOw on earth did they get through security with that I thought!"
Jockflyer,
Whilst I understand your concerns I think you will probably find that they didn't get through security with the glass but purchased the Pint in the Airside bar then boarded your flight.
Boarding is usually handled by the Handling Agent and I am quite sure they would not have let someone onto the Apron holding a Pint, oh and don't CC greet pax and check boarding cards on the way onto the AC, surely they would of noticed this at that stage.
LDY - DUB is usually operated by the SF340, not many seats on this AC so surely the CC would of noticed this person consuming the Black Stuff on board??
Incidently you can purchase up to 5 yes thats 5 LTRs of Spirits at the Duty Free to take on board.
I think your gripe may be with Transec and not Security in this case.
I don't know if you have ever visited BFS but just before the search area there is a gift shop and they will happily sell you any Gods ammount of Guinness Glasses to take home as a momento.
Jockflyer,
Whilst I understand your concerns I think you will probably find that they didn't get through security with the glass but purchased the Pint in the Airside bar then boarded your flight.
Boarding is usually handled by the Handling Agent and I am quite sure they would not have let someone onto the Apron holding a Pint, oh and don't CC greet pax and check boarding cards on the way onto the AC, surely they would of noticed this at that stage.
LDY - DUB is usually operated by the SF340, not many seats on this AC so surely the CC would of noticed this person consuming the Black Stuff on board??
Incidently you can purchase up to 5 yes thats 5 LTRs of Spirits at the Duty Free to take on board.
I think your gripe may be with Transec and not Security in this case.
I don't know if you have ever visited BFS but just before the search area there is a gift shop and they will happily sell you any Gods ammount of Guinness Glasses to take home as a momento.