Helios Crash
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Helios Crash
Hello everyone...I'm new here so be gentle, i'm a lady! 
I am not a pilot and I need help from some of you guys.
Basically, I am working on a docunmentary about the Helios plane crash that took place last year in Greece. Most of you might be aware of the accident and the surrounding facts/questions/accusations...
In a nutshell, this documentary tells the story of that tragic day and looks at all the facts in an investigative way. We don't think the pilots are to blame at all and we are trying to understand what could have happened on that plane and what are the main factors we should look at.
I would like to get in touch with THE British pilot who used to work for Helios and who flew the doomed plane on the day before the crash OR for any witnesses who could confirm to me that on the previous day there were some problems with the aircraft as reported by the crew.
If anyone can help or give me information on this I would be very greatful!
I am not a pilot and I need help from some of you guys.
Basically, I am working on a docunmentary about the Helios plane crash that took place last year in Greece. Most of you might be aware of the accident and the surrounding facts/questions/accusations...
In a nutshell, this documentary tells the story of that tragic day and looks at all the facts in an investigative way. We don't think the pilots are to blame at all and we are trying to understand what could have happened on that plane and what are the main factors we should look at.
I would like to get in touch with THE British pilot who used to work for Helios and who flew the doomed plane on the day before the crash OR for any witnesses who could confirm to me that on the previous day there were some problems with the aircraft as reported by the crew.
If anyone can help or give me information on this I would be very greatful!
If:-
Then why have you decided:-
BEFORE you:-
As for:-
I think you'll find that gutter-living journos here to do stich-ups without knowing what the hell they are talking about are about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit!!!
Oh... Welcome to PPRUNE!!
we are trying to understand what could have happened on that plane
We don't think the pilots are to blame
looks at all the facts in an investigative way.
be gentle, i'm a lady!
Oh... Welcome to PPRUNE!!
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I'll be gentle because you are a lady and I'm a nice guy!
I'm sure I speak for many people when I say that this really is an inappropriate use of this web site/BB and I would be very surprised to see any professional pilot contact you following your posting.
May I gently suggest that you use your other journalistic resources to try and get your information.
I'm sure I speak for many people when I say that this really is an inappropriate use of this web site/BB and I would be very surprised to see any professional pilot contact you following your posting.
May I gently suggest that you use your other journalistic resources to try and get your information.
Anybody with a story to sell is not going to get any cooperation from a knowledgeable source. However if you have developed/discovered new facts not previously considered by the investigating parties, then I'm willing to listen and suggest other avenues to follow.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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I am a former professional test pilot who has no connection with the Helios accident.
I am posting just to say that the kindest possible reading of your post is that you are inexperienced (as opposed to trying it on).
If you really are inexperienced then I would counsel that you do a good search of accident related posts on PPRuNe as this will enable you to realise how the aviation community has been very badly served in the past by inaccurate, unbalanced and sensationalist reporting.
So much damage has been done over the last decade in this respect that it is hard to see how somebody – even if they genuinely want to do a decent balanced programme – will be able to win back the confidence of those who could help.
While a face to face meeting might - just might - persuade an insider that your intentions are honourable a BB approach will only be seen as reason to suspect the worst.
I am posting just to say that the kindest possible reading of your post is that you are inexperienced (as opposed to trying it on).
If you really are inexperienced then I would counsel that you do a good search of accident related posts on PPRuNe as this will enable you to realise how the aviation community has been very badly served in the past by inaccurate, unbalanced and sensationalist reporting.
So much damage has been done over the last decade in this respect that it is hard to see how somebody – even if they genuinely want to do a decent balanced programme – will be able to win back the confidence of those who could help.
While a face to face meeting might - just might - persuade an insider that your intentions are honourable a BB approach will only be seen as reason to suspect the worst.
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There is plenty of discussion of the incident in these two threads:
Cypriot plane crashes in Greece
Cypriot airliner crash to re-enacted
When you've trawled through those you may not even want to come back here to make your request but if you do, then you may get a bit more co-operation... depending on how you take the comments above and below.
Cypriot plane crashes in Greece
Cypriot airliner crash to re-enacted
When you've trawled through those you may not even want to come back here to make your request but if you do, then you may get a bit more co-operation... depending on how you take the comments above and below.
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Investigations are done by a transportation safety board, or air accident investigation team. Journalist (generally) try and come up with a sensational story that will sell. Technical stuff (the truth) doesn't sell so is not printed. In other words, as far as I am concerned, miss, please stop posting on a PROFESSIONAL PILOT´S network, you are not welcome, full stop!
"Hello everyone...I'm new here so be gentle, i'm (sic) a lady!".
What a bl**dy joke; haven't you folks in the media ever heard of sexual equality? Why should you be treated any differently?
I wish you luck in your attempt at intelligence gathering dear but I don't exactly think you are off to a racing start.
What a bl**dy joke; haven't you folks in the media ever heard of sexual equality? Why should you be treated any differently?
I wish you luck in your attempt at intelligence gathering dear but I don't exactly think you are off to a racing start.
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I would suggest searching for the Toronto Star's reportage on Air France 358, including their "investigation", and then doing the opposite. There is probably a link buried somewhere in the threads here on pprune, but is probably behind a paywall by now so you'll have to reach for the company credit card.
As has been pointed out above, don't use the word investigation as this will in the mind of the public put you on the same level as the relevant investigative authorities with uncensored access to FDR/CVR etc. etc. etc. when you will not have much more than whatever leaks and chinese whispers are floating around the Aegean.
As has been pointed out above, don't use the word investigation as this will in the mind of the public put you on the same level as the relevant investigative authorities with uncensored access to FDR/CVR etc. etc. etc. when you will not have much more than whatever leaks and chinese whispers are floating around the Aegean.
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I don't normally post on this forum but today must to support the previous 8 posters.
Although I am not a Professional Pilot, I am a Professional Aircraft Engineering Technician, but I do not like either Aircrew or groundcrew being dragged through the scrubber via ill researched information. Sensationalist witnesses unfotunately drub our brethren with no substantive knowledge of aviation, aircraft, the people involved and belittle our community by misleading people such as yourself.
Flying Bird, If you must investigate, You must ask the relevant authorities and not these forums.
Sorry, Take care.
Talk Wrench
Although I am not a Professional Pilot, I am a Professional Aircraft Engineering Technician, but I do not like either Aircrew or groundcrew being dragged through the scrubber via ill researched information. Sensationalist witnesses unfotunately drub our brethren with no substantive knowledge of aviation, aircraft, the people involved and belittle our community by misleading people such as yourself.
Flying Bird, If you must investigate, You must ask the relevant authorities and not these forums.
Sorry, Take care.
Talk Wrench
Last edited by Talk Wrench; 11th May 2006 at 18:44.
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Miss Flying Bird.
If you really are genuine about wanting to make an objective report based on fact about the crash, then i will suggest that you make a documentary about yourself. You will be the first reporter that is not fussed about selling, but who just "want the truth".
Sorry, but i think you will find that professional pilots only will talk to professional investigation boards if they have vital information about an incident or accident. History has proven that it is best that way
Good luck
If you really are genuine about wanting to make an objective report based on fact about the crash, then i will suggest that you make a documentary about yourself. You will be the first reporter that is not fussed about selling, but who just "want the truth".
Sorry, but i think you will find that professional pilots only will talk to professional investigation boards if they have vital information about an incident or accident. History has proven that it is best that way
Good luck
Last edited by UP and Down Operator; 11th May 2006 at 20:26.
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Dear Miss Bird
I have to agree with my more experienced ppruners, experience shows us that journalists are very rarely interested in reporting facts objectivley, there is more money to be made by sensationalising things and pointing fingers at those ill equipped to defend themselves.
The majority of states comply with the requirements of ICAO Annex 13 and have an AIB set up with sufficient experience and expertise to make sense of the tangled web of facts that leads to the loss of an aircraft. Their reports are factual, don't (usually) apportion blame, and make recommendations to prevent it happening again, which surely is the whole point. If you want a balanced, factual viewpoint try talking to the Greek AAIB, instead of courting comment from this forum.
I have yet to see any piece of journalism or tv documentary which has made any contribution to air safety.
I have to agree with my more experienced ppruners, experience shows us that journalists are very rarely interested in reporting facts objectivley, there is more money to be made by sensationalising things and pointing fingers at those ill equipped to defend themselves.
The majority of states comply with the requirements of ICAO Annex 13 and have an AIB set up with sufficient experience and expertise to make sense of the tangled web of facts that leads to the loss of an aircraft. Their reports are factual, don't (usually) apportion blame, and make recommendations to prevent it happening again, which surely is the whole point. If you want a balanced, factual viewpoint try talking to the Greek AAIB, instead of courting comment from this forum.
I have yet to see any piece of journalism or tv documentary which has made any contribution to air safety.
Miss Flying Bird,
The three previous posts will indicate why you have come to the wriong place. Talk Wrench hit the nail on the head just before that. For every opinion there will be a counter-opinion, you'll not be able to filter the wright from the rong (sic). That'll provide you with the (professional-pilot-guided) leeway for your story to follow any eye-catching and most newsworthy path, if you hadn't realised already......
Someone will now disagree with what I have said perhaps; lets see.
The three previous posts will indicate why you have come to the wriong place. Talk Wrench hit the nail on the head just before that. For every opinion there will be a counter-opinion, you'll not be able to filter the wright from the rong (sic). That'll provide you with the (professional-pilot-guided) leeway for your story to follow any eye-catching and most newsworthy path, if you hadn't realised already......
Someone will now disagree with what I have said perhaps; lets see.
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Oh come on. No journalist worth any salt is going to be satisfied with "ask your government what happened." And besides, it's not that hard to spot a wannabe talking crap, is it?
All you need is some basic training in how to do your research. Since this is technically an anonymous forum, you'd be a moron, the Cyprus Daily Mail, or any number of other journals to cite this forum, wash your hands, and declare the day is over.
Oh wait.
Here's a hint to the journalists: I'm not a pilot, nor do I work in the industry; the only time I've ever been accused of something like that was when I used the phonetic alphabet on L1 pax support.
Do I think there's an engaging story to be told about the Helios incident? Well, contrary to the professionals here, I do. And I think it has nothing to do with that old hackneyed play to the audience's fears, "there's nobody beyond that locked door watching out for us." (By the way, if you must take that angle, please make it metaphorical and political, with plenty of cross cuts to foreign and domestic policy missteps)
The real Helios story is how very few in positions in power, particularly in the Mediterranean world, can face a chaotic world, where simple human oversights, technical niceties, and dumb luck occasionally combine to produce disaster. As Aristotle said, there can be no science of the accidental; the post-Byzantine world's response is to claim that the accidental does not exist. Thus a simple tragedy becomes a political football in Greece and Cyprus: the opposition party blames the current government; the current government blames the opposition party, back when they were in power. Meanwhile, the conspiracy nuts, who cannot stand the idea that anything happens without meaning, weigh in with even worse conspiracies.
The crash is less than a year old, and it's second only to Itavia in terms of conspiracy theories and sheer crap that's been generated. There have been so many press opinions, official leaks, non-official non-leaks, parliamentary investigations, and who knows what else, that, to be honest, there is no chance in my mind that any worthwhile technical observations will come out of this. For that matter, odds are we will probably never know the "truth" of the incident. Tsolakis may surprise us on this one, though.
There's no point in trolling here. Besides, proper journalism involves contacting people personally, not generally. A general post like that will only get you the most extreme nutcases of the previous discussions: go ahead and read them -- there are some scary types around here.
Oh yeah, right. The truth doesn't sell; fear does.[/rant]
All you need is some basic training in how to do your research. Since this is technically an anonymous forum, you'd be a moron, the Cyprus Daily Mail, or any number of other journals to cite this forum, wash your hands, and declare the day is over.
Oh wait.
Here's a hint to the journalists: I'm not a pilot, nor do I work in the industry; the only time I've ever been accused of something like that was when I used the phonetic alphabet on L1 pax support.
Do I think there's an engaging story to be told about the Helios incident? Well, contrary to the professionals here, I do. And I think it has nothing to do with that old hackneyed play to the audience's fears, "there's nobody beyond that locked door watching out for us." (By the way, if you must take that angle, please make it metaphorical and political, with plenty of cross cuts to foreign and domestic policy missteps)
The real Helios story is how very few in positions in power, particularly in the Mediterranean world, can face a chaotic world, where simple human oversights, technical niceties, and dumb luck occasionally combine to produce disaster. As Aristotle said, there can be no science of the accidental; the post-Byzantine world's response is to claim that the accidental does not exist. Thus a simple tragedy becomes a political football in Greece and Cyprus: the opposition party blames the current government; the current government blames the opposition party, back when they were in power. Meanwhile, the conspiracy nuts, who cannot stand the idea that anything happens without meaning, weigh in with even worse conspiracies.
The crash is less than a year old, and it's second only to Itavia in terms of conspiracy theories and sheer crap that's been generated. There have been so many press opinions, official leaks, non-official non-leaks, parliamentary investigations, and who knows what else, that, to be honest, there is no chance in my mind that any worthwhile technical observations will come out of this. For that matter, odds are we will probably never know the "truth" of the incident. Tsolakis may surprise us on this one, though.
There's no point in trolling here. Besides, proper journalism involves contacting people personally, not generally. A general post like that will only get you the most extreme nutcases of the previous discussions: go ahead and read them -- there are some scary types around here.
Oh yeah, right. The truth doesn't sell; fear does.[/rant]
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If you want to start understanding the most basic issue, find a decompression facility that is prepared to take your money and go experience hypoxia in all its insidiousness.
I agree with all the posts so far - anyone thinks I am encouraging too much say so and I will delete.
Sven
I agree with all the posts so far - anyone thinks I am encouraging too much say so and I will delete.
Sven
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Originally Posted by DingerX
Oh come on. No journalist worth any salt is going to be satisfied with "ask your government what happened." ...
If flying-bird really wants something close to the truth, she might take a look at the professional aviation press. They aren't perfect, they may have axes to grind, they've certainly got rags to sell, but they are the closest thing we have to a complete story.
Most of these folks at least have professional licenses and writing skills, and may take the time to explain the not-so-obvious; if you don't understand the jargon, you are sure to jump to the wrong "answer".
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Frankly I'm almost lost for words to express my disgust at some of the moronic and childish tantrums which have been thrown here.
What happened to basic courtesy? You know nothing about this woman's integrity or background - yet you presume to know it all. Heaven forbid that you should let facts get in the way of your judgement.
You b!tch about journalists being hysterical, sensationalist, biased, ignorant, inaccurate, rude and ill-informed, and yet virtually all the responses to this lady's polite question so far have demonstrated that the posters have all those qualities, in spades.
Danny appears to be the only person who's actually been prepared to make the effort to stand up for the word 'professional' on this forum.
As for those of you who've behaved with the manners I'd expect from a gang of howler monkeys, I think you're a disgrace. You make the teenage taunting and bickering on Airliners.net seem like civilised debate.
If the lady in question is genuine (and I've no evidence to the contrary) then I hope she treats you with the utter contempt you deserve and obtains the help she's seeking from more reliable, more professional, more mature sources elsewhere.
What happened to basic courtesy? You know nothing about this woman's integrity or background - yet you presume to know it all. Heaven forbid that you should let facts get in the way of your judgement.
You b!tch about journalists being hysterical, sensationalist, biased, ignorant, inaccurate, rude and ill-informed, and yet virtually all the responses to this lady's polite question so far have demonstrated that the posters have all those qualities, in spades.
Danny appears to be the only person who's actually been prepared to make the effort to stand up for the word 'professional' on this forum.
As for those of you who've behaved with the manners I'd expect from a gang of howler monkeys, I think you're a disgrace. You make the teenage taunting and bickering on Airliners.net seem like civilised debate.
If the lady in question is genuine (and I've no evidence to the contrary) then I hope she treats you with the utter contempt you deserve and obtains the help she's seeking from more reliable, more professional, more mature sources elsewhere.