View Poll Results: Should Chris Darke be re-elected as BALPA Gen Sec. (Straw poll)
Yes
59
12.14%
No
427
87.86%
Voters: 486. This poll is closed
Chris Darke to be re-elected!!! Vote
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Airrage,
<<Your continued personal vindictiveness towards JF I will not comment on except to say you continue to ignore people telling you that JF is not actually running to stay in the GS office>>
Please calm down. There is no personal vindictiveness towards JF; he is a friend of mine and I know exactly why he is standing. I don't agree with him but some others do.
The T&Cs at EOG and the rest of BA for that matter are nothing to do with CD - the CC takes the decisions after consulting with the community. If you don't like the way that your reps are handling matters then why don't you stand for election and try and make a difference.
It is not worth me trying to have a balanced discussion when you accuse me of being 'vindictive' so I will have nothing else to say on this matter. Sorry.
<<Your continued personal vindictiveness towards JF I will not comment on except to say you continue to ignore people telling you that JF is not actually running to stay in the GS office>>
Please calm down. There is no personal vindictiveness towards JF; he is a friend of mine and I know exactly why he is standing. I don't agree with him but some others do.
The T&Cs at EOG and the rest of BA for that matter are nothing to do with CD - the CC takes the decisions after consulting with the community. If you don't like the way that your reps are handling matters then why don't you stand for election and try and make a difference.
It is not worth me trying to have a balanced discussion when you accuse me of being 'vindictive' so I will have nothing else to say on this matter. Sorry.
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You say you are a friend of JF and you show no vindictiveness. Apologies for misinterpretting some of your recent comments..........
"a General Secretary who knows b all about running a Union, and who doesn't stay for meetings"
"JF has many talents but attending meetings until they finish is not one of them - he is always sloping off early from cc meetings; goes with living abroad I presume."
I don't think the above type of comments accurately reflect your desire for a "balanced discussion" as they are of a more personal nature. If we keep to the facts of the matter rather than personal judgements(like the irrelevance of where one lives) then a balanced discussion will naturely ensue.
As for "The T&Cs at EOG and the rest of BA for that matter are nothing to do with CD".......Sorry I thought he was the General Secretary of BALPA who I donate 1% of my career earnings(roughly 100K/year in his pocket)and who have failed continuely to protect our T&C's. I have also covered this in my previous post(sorry for repeat).....
"Yes but is the General Secretary to Blame ?
Many people have stated that one cannot blame Chris Darke(CD) personally for the degradation of UK Pilots pay and conditions over the past 10years(the fact that degradation has occurred is generally not in any doubt) and why should we need to elect someone else. I agree it is not desired or credible to try to appropriate blame to any one individual in BALPA to our degrading T&C's, but as established in the role of GS, surely he is the person "ultimately responsible". The only thing possibly questionable is how he has managed to secure a 45% pay rise between 96-00 whilst the pilots T&C's he is enrolled to protect continue to lose ground whilst increasing productivity. Blame for blames sake is not constructive, but weeding out weakness is. With the coincidental timing of the G.S.'s re-election it is wholly appropriate to examine the past 10years of his leadership and examine whether we are happy with his results or whether other suitable candidates should be considered. "
As for "If you don't like the way that your reps are handling matters then why don't you stand for election and try and make a difference. "
This is a comment you often hear from people if you dare mention dissatisfaction with BALPA and is in fact misleading as it ignores the fact that we have already made a difference by exercising our democratic rights by electing those creditable individuals who have volunteered for the job and share our outlook. I don't have to run for Prime Minister just to get my opinions as a citizen expressed do I?
Besides I have NEVER stated that I don't like the way that your reps are handling matters in my previous posts.......
"It is important to mention that the following is not meant to in anyway to reflect negatively on the hard work and daily achievements of our local council BALPA reps who do a tremendous job with little thanks, but rather to examine the effectiveness of the higher echelons of our union."
and
"I'll pre-empt the..."but we are BALPA, and it is up to us". Yes this is very true, and this is why we have elected people to represent our wishes"
I have not felt the need in the past to run as there has usually been more than enough respected pilots to choose from in the elections. I believe as previously stated the problem lies in the top of our union not at the CC level. Recent "Fearful" comments(admittedly not verified as they were not made to me directly) about the union have been attributed to both the Chairman and Vice-chairman. It is under their guidance and leadership that our reps operate, and the present Guiding Principle of Fear that dominates our reps as they carry out their duties will only change with a change of Leadership.
Airrage.
Always happy to have a 'balanced discussion.'
"a General Secretary who knows b all about running a Union, and who doesn't stay for meetings"
"JF has many talents but attending meetings until they finish is not one of them - he is always sloping off early from cc meetings; goes with living abroad I presume."
I don't think the above type of comments accurately reflect your desire for a "balanced discussion" as they are of a more personal nature. If we keep to the facts of the matter rather than personal judgements(like the irrelevance of where one lives) then a balanced discussion will naturely ensue.
As for "The T&Cs at EOG and the rest of BA for that matter are nothing to do with CD".......Sorry I thought he was the General Secretary of BALPA who I donate 1% of my career earnings(roughly 100K/year in his pocket)and who have failed continuely to protect our T&C's. I have also covered this in my previous post(sorry for repeat).....
"Yes but is the General Secretary to Blame ?
Many people have stated that one cannot blame Chris Darke(CD) personally for the degradation of UK Pilots pay and conditions over the past 10years(the fact that degradation has occurred is generally not in any doubt) and why should we need to elect someone else. I agree it is not desired or credible to try to appropriate blame to any one individual in BALPA to our degrading T&C's, but as established in the role of GS, surely he is the person "ultimately responsible". The only thing possibly questionable is how he has managed to secure a 45% pay rise between 96-00 whilst the pilots T&C's he is enrolled to protect continue to lose ground whilst increasing productivity. Blame for blames sake is not constructive, but weeding out weakness is. With the coincidental timing of the G.S.'s re-election it is wholly appropriate to examine the past 10years of his leadership and examine whether we are happy with his results or whether other suitable candidates should be considered. "
As for "If you don't like the way that your reps are handling matters then why don't you stand for election and try and make a difference. "
This is a comment you often hear from people if you dare mention dissatisfaction with BALPA and is in fact misleading as it ignores the fact that we have already made a difference by exercising our democratic rights by electing those creditable individuals who have volunteered for the job and share our outlook. I don't have to run for Prime Minister just to get my opinions as a citizen expressed do I?
Besides I have NEVER stated that I don't like the way that your reps are handling matters in my previous posts.......
"It is important to mention that the following is not meant to in anyway to reflect negatively on the hard work and daily achievements of our local council BALPA reps who do a tremendous job with little thanks, but rather to examine the effectiveness of the higher echelons of our union."
and
"I'll pre-empt the..."but we are BALPA, and it is up to us". Yes this is very true, and this is why we have elected people to represent our wishes"
I have not felt the need in the past to run as there has usually been more than enough respected pilots to choose from in the elections. I believe as previously stated the problem lies in the top of our union not at the CC level. Recent "Fearful" comments(admittedly not verified as they were not made to me directly) about the union have been attributed to both the Chairman and Vice-chairman. It is under their guidance and leadership that our reps operate, and the present Guiding Principle of Fear that dominates our reps as they carry out their duties will only change with a change of Leadership.
Airrage.
Always happy to have a 'balanced discussion.'
Last edited by airrage; 6th Apr 2002 at 12:36.
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For Info.
Acounts have only been released to the year 2000.
I did have the figures in a table but it has not come out on the forum. It does make them hard to read but they are accurate and taken from the BALPA certified accounts.
1989 1990 1991 1992
Subscription 1407455 1735763 2037380 2189912
Staff Costs 604110 596275 785715 704273
Office Costs 204808 556840 289214 339734
Legal Cost 1 63088 152586 161059 152062
Profit (Loss).-182677 -28887 319779 112872
1993 1994 1995 1996
Subscription 2219091 2233338 2243042 2447548
Staff Cost 760122 749113 900612 916981
Office Cost 342072 394026 425241 481757
Legal Cost 1 312890 398853 484387 365541
Profit (Loss) 45890 19531 -346007 70117
General Sec
Basic Salary 45883 47723 50564 59160
NI 5115 4331 4909 5901
Pension 454 432 5821 6876
Benefits 3664 4504 4958 5265
Total 55116 57040 66252 77202
1997 1998 1999 2000
Subscription 2570330 2738895 2904339 3027873
Staff Costs 1058093 1101524 1235365 1400561
Office Costs 531403 668032 656683 724538
Legal Cost 1 308782 345611 509894 296776
Legal Cost 2 488572
Profit (Loss) -100527 -198057 -245706 -672907
General Sec
Basic Salary 69500 77696 76422 85042
NI 6551 7097 8618 9152
Pension 6176 10212 22927 25513
Benefits 5240 2783 - -
Total 87467 97788 107967 119707
Facts.
From 1989 to 2000 subscriptions rose 115%
Staff Costs have risen 133%
Office Costs have risen 254%
Legal Costs have risen 269%
The General Secretary’s Remuneration was not reported in the annual accounts prior to 1993.
From 1993 to 2000 General Secretary’s Basic Salary has risen 85%
Our Contributions to the General Secretary’s Pension have risen 5519%
The General Secretary’s total remuneration has risen 117%
Subscriptions rose 36% over the same period of 93-00.
GS Salary inc vs RPI.
Year 1994 RPI 2.5% GS Salary 4%,
Year 1995 RPI 3.4% GS Salary 6%,
Year 1996 RPI 2.4% GS Salary 17%,
Year 1997 RPI 3.2% GS Salary 17.5%,
Year 1998 RPI 3.3% GS Salary 11.8%,
Year 1999 RPI 1.6% GS Salary -1.6% (+124% Pension),
Year 2000 RPI 3% GS Salary 11.3%.
Regards,
XFO1-11
Acounts have only been released to the year 2000.
I did have the figures in a table but it has not come out on the forum. It does make them hard to read but they are accurate and taken from the BALPA certified accounts.
1989 1990 1991 1992
Subscription 1407455 1735763 2037380 2189912
Staff Costs 604110 596275 785715 704273
Office Costs 204808 556840 289214 339734
Legal Cost 1 63088 152586 161059 152062
Profit (Loss).-182677 -28887 319779 112872
1993 1994 1995 1996
Subscription 2219091 2233338 2243042 2447548
Staff Cost 760122 749113 900612 916981
Office Cost 342072 394026 425241 481757
Legal Cost 1 312890 398853 484387 365541
Profit (Loss) 45890 19531 -346007 70117
General Sec
Basic Salary 45883 47723 50564 59160
NI 5115 4331 4909 5901
Pension 454 432 5821 6876
Benefits 3664 4504 4958 5265
Total 55116 57040 66252 77202
1997 1998 1999 2000
Subscription 2570330 2738895 2904339 3027873
Staff Costs 1058093 1101524 1235365 1400561
Office Costs 531403 668032 656683 724538
Legal Cost 1 308782 345611 509894 296776
Legal Cost 2 488572
Profit (Loss) -100527 -198057 -245706 -672907
General Sec
Basic Salary 69500 77696 76422 85042
NI 6551 7097 8618 9152
Pension 6176 10212 22927 25513
Benefits 5240 2783 - -
Total 87467 97788 107967 119707
Facts.
From 1989 to 2000 subscriptions rose 115%
Staff Costs have risen 133%
Office Costs have risen 254%
Legal Costs have risen 269%
The General Secretary’s Remuneration was not reported in the annual accounts prior to 1993.
From 1993 to 2000 General Secretary’s Basic Salary has risen 85%
Our Contributions to the General Secretary’s Pension have risen 5519%
The General Secretary’s total remuneration has risen 117%
Subscriptions rose 36% over the same period of 93-00.
GS Salary inc vs RPI.
Year 1994 RPI 2.5% GS Salary 4%,
Year 1995 RPI 3.4% GS Salary 6%,
Year 1996 RPI 2.4% GS Salary 17%,
Year 1997 RPI 3.2% GS Salary 17.5%,
Year 1998 RPI 3.3% GS Salary 11.8%,
Year 1999 RPI 1.6% GS Salary -1.6% (+124% Pension),
Year 2000 RPI 3% GS Salary 11.3%.
Regards,
XFO1-11
Last edited by XFO1-11; 7th Apr 2002 at 09:20.
So, when do I get to vote? So far I've heard nothing. (Might be my fault as most of what I get from Balpa goes straight for recycling - I have rarely been bored enough to read the bi-monthly rag about Nigels).
Unless I hear soon, I shall cast my own vote by cancelling my membership.
Unless I hear soon, I shall cast my own vote by cancelling my membership.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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I only know about the up and coming vote because of this forum. I guess I was naive in thinking that being a paid up BALPA member for five years meant that I may be informed about things through the proper channels .........
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M.Mouse, thanks for that deep, insightful commentary. Do you prefer posts with one or two syllable words? Perhaps I can even paste some pictures.
Either way, I'll do the writing course if you promise to do the spelling course.
Regards,
Airrage(with two r's)
PS: All serious readers please ignore this silly post.
Either way, I'll do the writing course if you promise to do the spelling course.
Regards,
Airrage(with two r's)
PS: All serious readers please ignore this silly post.
Last edited by airrage; 11th Apr 2002 at 20:08.
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Human Factor
"I only know about the up and coming vote because of this forum. I guess I was naive in thinking that being a paid up BALPA member for five years meant that I may be informed about things through the proper channels ........."
What you are 'naive' about is assuming that being a paid up member of BALPA means that somehow everything is just going to land in your lap. For f***s sake get off your a** and take an interest in whats going on. You need to remember that BALPA IS it's members, the decision is ultimately yours.
CD is being used as a scapegoat in this thread to cover up some of the decisions that have been taken by individual CC's. I for one hope that a BA pilot does NOT end up being GS of BALPA. That would be reason enough for a 1% pay rise.
"I only know about the up and coming vote because of this forum. I guess I was naive in thinking that being a paid up BALPA member for five years meant that I may be informed about things through the proper channels ........."
What you are 'naive' about is assuming that being a paid up member of BALPA means that somehow everything is just going to land in your lap. For f***s sake get off your a** and take an interest in whats going on. You need to remember that BALPA IS it's members, the decision is ultimately yours.
CD is being used as a scapegoat in this thread to cover up some of the decisions that have been taken by individual CC's. I for one hope that a BA pilot does NOT end up being GS of BALPA. That would be reason enough for a 1% pay rise.
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Just so no-one is fed inaccurate information;
Fact 1: No 'BA pilot' is running with the intention of staying in the position of GS, only to provide sufficient time for a suitable replacement to be found. A more realistic GS election timetable and election notification would have allowed time for this suitable candidate to run directly against CD(a more desired outcome), but unfortunately due to the BALPA head offices intention to re-instate CD with as little competition as possible, this proved an impossibility.
Fact 2: The head office of BALPA purposely failed in communicating to their members that the GS elections were due(as proved by many on this board surprised to hear here first that a GS election was even occurring)in order to avoid the growing dissent(as also proved by the poll here on pprune) by it's members about the continuing decline in their working terms and conditions over the past 10years under CD's leadership. Worrying that they thought we didn't need to properly informed and they could streamline their own intentions!!!!!
Fact 3: Saying one will not vote for a candidate before they have even read their election address and who might actually be good for the union(can't do a worse job than the last 10years)simply because they are a "BA pilot"(and despite Fact 1 above) is the type of close-minded attitude that threatens all UK pilots future. Lets have an open and honest assessment of CD's accomplishments over his term and then vote. Can any pilot in the uk say they are really happy with the direction of things over the past 10years? If yes then vote CD, if not then maybe a change is appropriate.
Lets not have petty in-fighting between what firms we all work for when it comes to the bigger issue of voting on an important union election and also comes at a crucial time in the future of UK pilot's in general.
Fact 1: No 'BA pilot' is running with the intention of staying in the position of GS, only to provide sufficient time for a suitable replacement to be found. A more realistic GS election timetable and election notification would have allowed time for this suitable candidate to run directly against CD(a more desired outcome), but unfortunately due to the BALPA head offices intention to re-instate CD with as little competition as possible, this proved an impossibility.
Fact 2: The head office of BALPA purposely failed in communicating to their members that the GS elections were due(as proved by many on this board surprised to hear here first that a GS election was even occurring)in order to avoid the growing dissent(as also proved by the poll here on pprune) by it's members about the continuing decline in their working terms and conditions over the past 10years under CD's leadership. Worrying that they thought we didn't need to properly informed and they could streamline their own intentions!!!!!
Fact 3: Saying one will not vote for a candidate before they have even read their election address and who might actually be good for the union(can't do a worse job than the last 10years)simply because they are a "BA pilot"(and despite Fact 1 above) is the type of close-minded attitude that threatens all UK pilots future. Lets have an open and honest assessment of CD's accomplishments over his term and then vote. Can any pilot in the uk say they are really happy with the direction of things over the past 10years? If yes then vote CD, if not then maybe a change is appropriate.
Lets not have petty in-fighting between what firms we all work for when it comes to the bigger issue of voting on an important union election and also comes at a crucial time in the future of UK pilot's in general.
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Interesting post Airrage (with two r's). A few points.
Thanks to Margaret Thatcher, timetables for elections for Trade Union Officials are laid down by statute. Who is this mysterious 'BALPA Head Office' that you claim is subverting the process? Enough people (20 at least) knew in time to put a motion to the last Annual Delegate Conference in November not to elect Chris Darke. (It was resoundingly defeated by the way)The deadline for conference motions is sometime back in the summer. That is a fact.
You assume that all the posts expressing suprise at the election are from current BALPA members, and those who have the time to read everything that drops through their mail box. I doubt that you can claim that as a fact.
By all means, lets have an open and honest debate. I have an open mind but from the tone of your posts, I doubt if you do, but I won't claim that as a fact.
Finally, may I suggest that you don't take a number of unsubstantiated rumours and accusations and present them as 'facts'. After all to quote your own post,
" just so no-one is fed inaccurate information".
Thanks to Margaret Thatcher, timetables for elections for Trade Union Officials are laid down by statute. Who is this mysterious 'BALPA Head Office' that you claim is subverting the process? Enough people (20 at least) knew in time to put a motion to the last Annual Delegate Conference in November not to elect Chris Darke. (It was resoundingly defeated by the way)The deadline for conference motions is sometime back in the summer. That is a fact.
You assume that all the posts expressing suprise at the election are from current BALPA members, and those who have the time to read everything that drops through their mail box. I doubt that you can claim that as a fact.
By all means, lets have an open and honest debate. I have an open mind but from the tone of your posts, I doubt if you do, but I won't claim that as a fact.
Finally, may I suggest that you don't take a number of unsubstantiated rumours and accusations and present them as 'facts'. After all to quote your own post,
" just so no-one is fed inaccurate information".
Last edited by Brae_Cwynd; 12th Apr 2002 at 22:57.
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Brae,
You seem to be an informed chap.
I would be interested to know your opinions on;
- what you think of CD's last 10years in office?
- do you think pilot's terms and conditions in the UK have declined during that time ? If so, as GS, does CD have to shoulder some of the responsibility for this ?
- do you think CD should be re-elected ?
- do you think that it is solely as a result of BALPA members being busy that they were unaware of the GS elections or has communication in this area proven inadequate? (Resulting in Maggies election timetable(from awareness to nominations) being somewhat shortened.)
- why do some other unions appear to have greater respect from their employers with respect to protecting their members interests than BALPA, in particular, securing pay at greater than or equal to mkt rate ?
Thanks in advance,
Airrage.
You seem to be an informed chap.
I would be interested to know your opinions on;
- what you think of CD's last 10years in office?
- do you think pilot's terms and conditions in the UK have declined during that time ? If so, as GS, does CD have to shoulder some of the responsibility for this ?
- do you think CD should be re-elected ?
- do you think that it is solely as a result of BALPA members being busy that they were unaware of the GS elections or has communication in this area proven inadequate? (Resulting in Maggies election timetable(from awareness to nominations) being somewhat shortened.)
- why do some other unions appear to have greater respect from their employers with respect to protecting their members interests than BALPA, in particular, securing pay at greater than or equal to mkt rate ?
Thanks in advance,
Airrage.
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I have received the april Airwaves (The Balpa News and Campaign Brief) by e-mail yesterday... So it's as up to date as information gets, and there is no mention whatsoever of any challenge to CD.
Surely, the election for the post of General Secretary is about the most newsworthy issue that BALPA has at present, especially as there is a challenge underway.
It all smells a funny colour to me.
Surely, the election for the post of General Secretary is about the most newsworthy issue that BALPA has at present, especially as there is a challenge underway.
It all smells a funny colour to me.
Controversial, moi?
Well BALPA has over 4000 members at least and a whole 200 have voted here. What an amazing level of dissent. Either BALPA members do not in general read PPRuNe or lethargy rules.
I too have been suprised to hear absolutely nothing official yet.
I have been reading Rick Brennan's robust defence, on the BALPABA compuserve forum, of yacht hire and rep spending with interest. Apparently BALPA is in excellent financial form contrary to the allegations being made.
I too have been suprised to hear absolutely nothing official yet.
I have been reading Rick Brennan's robust defence, on the BALPABA compuserve forum, of yacht hire and rep spending with interest. Apparently BALPA is in excellent financial form contrary to the allegations being made.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Fuzzy,
Don't want to get into a slanging match but I will happily get off my a*** and do something if I get to know what is going on. Unfortunately, I work quite hard for a living and am not in a position to find much out other than by emails, which I'm not being sent apparently, or snail-mail (ditto).
As far as I'm aware though, the BA pilot in question is acting in order to get someone with a vague interest in the welfare of union members into the post of GS. If elected, he will step down immediately that there are a selection of credible candidates to choose from. This will not occur as long as CD remains incumbent.
Please do not allow anti-BA paranoia to cloud the issue of mismanagement at the top of BALPA. If it does, we all lose, whether we're BA or not.
HF
Don't want to get into a slanging match but I will happily get off my a*** and do something if I get to know what is going on. Unfortunately, I work quite hard for a living and am not in a position to find much out other than by emails, which I'm not being sent apparently, or snail-mail (ditto).
As far as I'm aware though, the BA pilot in question is acting in order to get someone with a vague interest in the welfare of union members into the post of GS. If elected, he will step down immediately that there are a selection of credible candidates to choose from. This will not occur as long as CD remains incumbent.
Please do not allow anti-BA paranoia to cloud the issue of mismanagement at the top of BALPA. If it does, we all lose, whether we're BA or not.
HF
Controversial, moi?
Well, well. A missive arrives from BALPA this morning. Basically a page and a half endorsement of Chris Darke from Mervyn Granshaw Association Chairman.
Goes into details of the debate obout CD at the last ADC, which was deliberately NOT reported in the ADC conference report.
Is it right that the association chairman should be using BALPA facilities to promote the incumbent GS?
Funny but the more I hear about this whole business the more I suspicious I become about what is really going on! The letter has had the effect of making me less likely to vote for CD.
Still amazed at the apathy being shown in the poll on this thread.
Goes into details of the debate obout CD at the last ADC, which was deliberately NOT reported in the ADC conference report.
Is it right that the association chairman should be using BALPA facilities to promote the incumbent GS?
Funny but the more I hear about this whole business the more I suspicious I become about what is really going on! The letter has had the effect of making me less likely to vote for CD.
Still amazed at the apathy being shown in the poll on this thread.
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M.Mouse,
You said it all. How dare Merv G. use BALPA funds to try and rig the direction of the election by slagging off the other candidate in this letter. I thought it was bad enough that CD had the advantage the GS intro in the BALPA log to start his pre-election spin(as he suddenly decided a lengthy chat was necessary), but this is ridiculous. He has even played on the unfortunate BA/non-BA animosities by trying to make it appear the actions of just a couple disgruntled BA Local council reps in cahoots(I guess he hasn't seen the pprune Poll results YET).
he says point blank...
"However, two BA Local Councils have exercised their democratic right to nominate alternative candidate, John Frohnsdorff. John is himself a member of the NEC, in the BA constituency, and he with three others in the same constituency(implying BA mates are you Merv)declined to support Christopher."
He then goes on to say,
" It is therefore vital that the result reflects the view of the Association as a whole, and not simply those who are best organised to mobilise their support."
I think Merv should resign for sending out such a letter. How dare he try to mobilise a BA/non-BA split in OUR UNION, and try to influence what would have been a democratic process. If I was non-BA and hadn't read any of the posts on this board, and just received this letter I would definately think the election is the result of just a few disgruntled BA pilots and wouldn't dream of voting JF after this.
I guess the Merv "FEAR" factor I talked about in the other post is true and starting to kick in. I really think the top of our union are in a world of their own if they think they get away with a letter like this. I really think Merv should resign. I FEAR Merv will stir up a greater response than he has imagined though all not favourable and his stupid action might end up being the trigger that eventualy results in bringing the TGWU into BA. Especially if BA pilots start to feel as an isolated group where any of our actions are just overruled by the rest of the union simply because they originate from a BA pilot-rep.
Well Merv, congratulations you have just convinced me that come the GS eletion results I will probably exercise my democratic rights and leave BALPA. Besides, it will help me repatriate the extra 1% of my pay the gov't has just taken in NIC contributions and it seems I can't rely on BALPA in ever securing me a proper pay rise with the present incumbants in autocratic RULE. They won't even let us have a fair election !
You said it all. How dare Merv G. use BALPA funds to try and rig the direction of the election by slagging off the other candidate in this letter. I thought it was bad enough that CD had the advantage the GS intro in the BALPA log to start his pre-election spin(as he suddenly decided a lengthy chat was necessary), but this is ridiculous. He has even played on the unfortunate BA/non-BA animosities by trying to make it appear the actions of just a couple disgruntled BA Local council reps in cahoots(I guess he hasn't seen the pprune Poll results YET).
he says point blank...
"However, two BA Local Councils have exercised their democratic right to nominate alternative candidate, John Frohnsdorff. John is himself a member of the NEC, in the BA constituency, and he with three others in the same constituency(implying BA mates are you Merv)declined to support Christopher."
He then goes on to say,
" It is therefore vital that the result reflects the view of the Association as a whole, and not simply those who are best organised to mobilise their support."
I think Merv should resign for sending out such a letter. How dare he try to mobilise a BA/non-BA split in OUR UNION, and try to influence what would have been a democratic process. If I was non-BA and hadn't read any of the posts on this board, and just received this letter I would definately think the election is the result of just a few disgruntled BA pilots and wouldn't dream of voting JF after this.
I guess the Merv "FEAR" factor I talked about in the other post is true and starting to kick in. I really think the top of our union are in a world of their own if they think they get away with a letter like this. I really think Merv should resign. I FEAR Merv will stir up a greater response than he has imagined though all not favourable and his stupid action might end up being the trigger that eventualy results in bringing the TGWU into BA. Especially if BA pilots start to feel as an isolated group where any of our actions are just overruled by the rest of the union simply because they originate from a BA pilot-rep.
Well Merv, congratulations you have just convinced me that come the GS eletion results I will probably exercise my democratic rights and leave BALPA. Besides, it will help me repatriate the extra 1% of my pay the gov't has just taken in NIC contributions and it seems I can't rely on BALPA in ever securing me a proper pay rise with the present incumbants in autocratic RULE. They won't even let us have a fair election !
Last edited by airrage; 20th Apr 2002 at 12:29.
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I would like to know what BALPA intends to do given Election Rule 24 para.(4) of BALPA's rules has clearly been violated by our Assoc.Chairman;
RULE 24
(4) If, before or after the result of a ballot conducted under this Rule has been announced, it appears to the National Executive Council that any irregularity may have occurred which could materially affect the result or validity of that ballot, the National Executive Council shall have power:
(i) to suspend the conduct of the ballot for such a period not exceeding one month as it may determine; and/or
(ii) to declare such ballot void.
If the NEC declares a ballot void it may(and, if so required by these Rules, shall) forwith cause a further ballot to be condicted in accordance with this Rule.
I think it would hard to find a court in this land that wouldn't find that a "irregularity may have occurred which could materially affect the result."
RULE 24
(4) If, before or after the result of a ballot conducted under this Rule has been announced, it appears to the National Executive Council that any irregularity may have occurred which could materially affect the result or validity of that ballot, the National Executive Council shall have power:
(i) to suspend the conduct of the ballot for such a period not exceeding one month as it may determine; and/or
(ii) to declare such ballot void.
If the NEC declares a ballot void it may(and, if so required by these Rules, shall) forwith cause a further ballot to be condicted in accordance with this Rule.
I think it would hard to find a court in this land that wouldn't find that a "irregularity may have occurred which could materially affect the result."
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Can some "non-BA" replies identify themselves, and what they thought of that letter?
As has been remarked elsewhere, to people who did not know what was going on, it makes them less inclined to vote for CD because of the (now blatant) stitch up going on..
Seems something similar happened to Tony Blair trying to nobble the results of the London mayor election..??
Democratic election - I think not.
NoD
As has been remarked elsewhere, to people who did not know what was going on, it makes them less inclined to vote for CD because of the (now blatant) stitch up going on..
Seems something similar happened to Tony Blair trying to nobble the results of the London mayor election..??
Democratic election - I think not.
NoD