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Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 12083401)
They have to be able to handle the difference between the weight and the thrust at the moment of release.
You will not the initial slow acceleration of the Statship/booster as opposed to those with side solid fuel boosters. Hold downs are nothing new. Unlike solids (which build up pressure very rapidly), most liquid fuel rocket engines take several seconds to build up to full thrust - and the hold downs make sure the rocket stays put until the rocket engines are up to pressure and can control the trajectory of the rocket. There are several good videos of the hold downs releasing on the Saturn 1B and Saturn V launches. |
I think we are saying the same thing.
The Starship booster accelerates slowly and the thrust builds and the hold-downs release when the thrust exceeds the weight of the vehicle. That equates to the engine thrust minus the weght of the vehicle. The clamps must hold the rocket down against the net force, which is the total engine thrust minus the vehicle's weight (approximately 505,846 kg Χ9.81m/s2). At launch, the SpaceX Falcon 9 booster hold-down clamps withstand a net force of approximately 923kN (207,500lbf) immediately before release, though the engines themselves produce over 5,885kN (1.300,000lbf) of thrust at sea level. |
https://x.com/CeaserG33/status/2053085282933616971?s=20 SpaceX just stacked Starship for the first time on Pad 2. Booster 19 and Ship 39 have formed a full V3 stack on the new pad, smashing the record once again as the tallest rocket on Earth! |
Top: Flight 11 stack of Booster 15-2 and Ship 38
Bottom: Flight 12 stack of Booster 19 and Ship 39 https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bebc9fe5d1.png https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7a05db7d54.png |
https://x.com/ErnestCalFab/status/20...180787234?s=20 Very interesting, the new version of Starship incorporates orientation engines at the base of the lower flaps. These will serve for precision maneuvers for orbital docking. With this, we now know what those mysterious pipes on the flaps are for. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....46cac60a7d.png https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....737d952874.png https://x.com/ErnestCalFab/status/20...839469025?s=20 We can also see the engine bay camera and the height where the previous false roof (yellow) used to be; now it has been removed thanks to the Raptor 3, and we can see how the fuselage continues behind it. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e612c82e81.png |
It looks truly sci-fi-esque.
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 12083974)
It looks truly sci-fi-esque.
Watching recent events in South Texas, and elsewhere, I am coming round to the idea that, possibly not in this generation, but we may actually witnessing the beginning of Earthlings' journey to the planets. |
I might not get invited anyway but I wouldn't want to go one way to Mars for sure.
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https://x.com/grok/status/2053339442039926862?s=20 The WDR for Starship Flight 12 was aborted just before propellant loading—likely a sensor or ground system anomaly triggering SpaceX's safety abort. No detailed cause released yet. They'll reattempt next week. If that succeeds smoothly, I'd guess NET launch late May/early June, but Starship timelines often shift. After last nights aborted WDR, Crews have removed the Tower vent from Pad 2. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5cb61714f.jpeg |
May or may not have been requested before the latest issue, but indicates no RTLS but another Indian ocean landing.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8ca97deb4c.png |
https://x.com/Flight2Starship/status...988204398?s=20 A replacement pipe is now being installed on Tower 2!! https://x.com/Flight2Starship/status...727888934?s=20 New road closures for a Wet Dress Rehearsal of Ship 39 & Booster 19 have been published. Primary tomorrow May 11 with backups on May 12 and 13. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....53b74a04fe.png https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d245504b2d.png |
https://x.com/SpaceX/status/2053929135936864393?s=20 Launch rehearsal complete. During a flight-like countdown, more than 5,000 metric tonnes (11+ million pounds) of propellant were loaded on the fully stacked Starship and Super Heavy V3 vehicles for the first time https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c29f0a1fe.jpeg |
Blimey, it towers above a Saturn V at 408 feet against 363 feet. That's a touch more than 40 feet higher that St Pauls.
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Video
https://x.com/LabPadre/status/2054014575322775567?s=20 The new SpaceX barge, You'll Thank Me Later, appeared at Port Canaveral earlier today, where crews were working on outfitting her ready for transporting Super Heavy and Starship vehicles from Starbase to the Cape. |
https://x.com/NASASpaceflight/status...975208256?s=20 Starship Flight 12: Navigational warnings indicate SpaceX is now targeting NET May 19 for launch. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ec55af26b.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b3ea43516.jpeg And now the NOTAM. Again, these are NETs (No Earlier Than), and it's for SpaceX to note their own target, which could be a day or so beyond this. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....531e319d7.jpeg |
Next stop Louisiana?
https://x.com/SpaceX/status/2054295243122717105?s=20 It’s no secret that we intend to launch Starship a lot, targeting thousands of flights per year. That cadence will require the ability to launch from many different locations, so we are constantly exploring to find viable sites to expand Starship operations in the future, both domestically and internationally https://x.com/SERobinsonJr/status/20...878559829?s=20 SPACEX: A realtor named Jim Keaty of Keaty Real Estate published a rumor of possible SpaceX land acquisition in Louisiana. It states SpaceX may have acquired or is acquiring 136k acres (212 sq miles) of marshland south of Highway 82 towards the Gulf of America in Pecan Island and Freshwater City in Vermilion Parish of the Acadiana region. At the Southeast corner of the land near the Freshwater City boat launch is a plot ready to be converted for port operations and direct access to the Intercoastal Canal and the Gulf of America. Pecan Island is halfway between Boca Chica and Cape Canaveral, and has easy access to Cheniere LNG and Golden Pass LNG; both on the either side of the Louisiana and Texas border at Sabine Pass. This has not been confirmed by SpaceX of Elon. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1b90bc755.jpeg |
A lot of changes. Hope they all work.
https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/2...220775515?s=20 SpaceX has just released a massive new list of changes in Starship V3, which is now scheduled to launch on May 19th: Super Heavy V3 Changes Grid Fin Redesign: Reduced from 4 fins to 3, Each fin is now: 50% larger, stronger, repositioned for better catching/lifting, Lowered on booster to reduce heat exposure during hot staging, Fin hardware moved inside fuel tank for protection. Integrated Hot Stage: Removes the old disposable interstage shield, Booster dome now directly exposed to upper-stage engine ignition, Tank pressure + steel shielding protect structure, Interstage actuators retract after separation for protection. New Fuel Transfer System: Massive redesign of fuel transfer tube, Roughly the size of a Falcon 9 first stage, Allows: simultaneous startup of all 33 Raptors, faster and more reliable flip maneuvers. Engine Bay / Thermal Protection Changes: Engine shrouds removed entirely, New shielding added between engines, Propulsion + avionics more tightly integrated, CO₂ fire suppression system removed, Simpler and lighter aft section. Propellant Loading Improvements: Moved from 1 quick disconnect to 2 separate systems, Adds redundancy, Reduces complexity of pad interfaces. Starship V3 Changes Completely Redesigned Propulsion System: Clean-sheet redesign, Supports: new Raptor startup method, larger propellant volume and improved reaction control system, Reduces trapped/leaked propellant risk. Aft Section Simplification: Fluid + electrical systems rerouted, Engine shrouds deleted, Large aft cavity removed. Flap Actuation Upgrade: Changed from: 2 actuators per flap to 1 actuator with 3 motors, Improves:, redundancy, mass efficiency, cost. Faster Starlink Deployment: Upgraded PEZ dispenser, Faster satellite deployment speeds. Long-Duration Spaceflight Capability: New systems added for: long orbital coasts, orbital refueling, cryogenic fluid management, vacuum, insulated header systems and high-voltage cryogenic recirculation. Ship-to-Ship Docking + Refueling: Added 4 docking drogues, Added propellant transfer connections, Directly supports in-space refueling architecture. Avionics Upgrades Massive Electrical System Upgrade: ~60 custom avionics units Batteries/inverters/high-voltage systems integrated together ~9 MW peak power capability Better Navigation + Redundancy: New multi-sensor navigation system, Designed for precision autonomous flight. Propellant Monitoring in Space: New RF sensors measure propellant levels in microgravity, Important for orbital refueling missions. Camera + Connectivity Upgrades: ~50 onboard camera views, 480 Mbps Starlink connectivity onboard, Low-latency redundant communications. Raptor 3 Engine Changes Higher Thrust: Sea-level Raptors: Increased from: 230 tf → 250 tf 507k lbf → 551k lbf, Vacuum Raptors: Increased from: 258 tf → 275 tf 568k lbf → 606k lbf Lower Mass: Sea-level engine mass reduced: 1630 kg → 1525 kg. Simpler Design: Sensors/controllers integrated into engine body, Removes need for engine shrouds, New ignition system for all variants, Huge Vehicle-Level Weight Savings, ~1 ton saved per engine across vehicle systems. Launch Pad 2 Upgrades (Starbase) Faster Propellant Loading: Larger propellant farm, More pumps, Faster fueling operations. Chopstick Improvements: Shorter arms for faster movement, Switched from hydraulic → electromechanical actuators, Better reliability + redundancy. Stronger Quick Disconnect Arm: Reinforced and redesigned, Swings farther away during launch. Launch Mount Redesign: Better load handling, Improved launch protection, Improved throwback reliability. New Flame Diverter System: Bidirectional flame diverter, Designed to eliminate ablation/refurbishment after launch. Hardened Propellant Systems: Methane and oxygen systems separated, Valves/filters moved into protected bunker, Improves safety and reliability. SpaceX: "Together, these new elements are designed to enable a step-change in Starship capabilities and aim to unlock the vehicles core functions, including full and rapid reuse, in-space propellant transfer, deployment of Starlink satellites and orbital data centers, and the ability to send people and cargo to the Moon and Mars." |
Videos
https://x.com/efraser77/status/2054420839769260335?s=20 Over the course of about 16 hours Tuesday, both Ship 39 and Booster 19 were removed from the launch mount and taken back to the Mega Bays, where they will be prepared for Flight 12, currently NET May 19. |
Video simulation.
https://x.com/XploraSpace/status/205...238292288?s=20 12th Starship test flight: SpaceX will film the exterior of its spacecraft using cameras mounted on Starlink simulators. During the deployment of the 22 simulators, the last two satellites will inspect the heat shield of Ship 39 and transmit the images to ground teams. Objective: test new methods for analyzing the heat shield ahead of future returns of the spacecraft directly to its launch site. Several tiles on the Ship have been painted white to simulate missing tiles and serve as imaging targets during the test. The Starlink simulators will follow a suborbital trajectory close to that of the spacecraft to maximize imaging opportunities. The in-orbit relight of a Raptor engine is also among the mission's objectives....... |
Contains copies of numerous NASA slides and others illustrating each point.
https://x.com/JoeTegtmeyer/status/20...475903829?s=20 With new information released by @SpaceX on the design of V3 Starship, one interesting new capability is the high-voltage electrically actuated cryogenic recirculation system and other upgrades designed to increase the time the ship can operate in space. I thought this sounded familiar to recent @NASA research on this topic as well as the publicized collaborative work with @SpaceX using this and other related research efforts. Starship V3 Cryogenic Recirculation Integrating NASA Research for Extended Orbital Operations 1/ Starship Version 3 introduces a high-voltage electrically actuated cryogenic recirculation system, supported by 100% vacuum-jacketed header feed lines and upgraded RCS thrusters. This capability enables prolonged on-orbit operations by maintaining propellant quality over extended periods. It directly builds upon NASA cryogenic fluid management (CFM) research. 2/ NASAs Marshall Space Flight Center has advanced technologies for long-duration storage and transfer of liquid oxygen (LOX) and liquid methane (LCH4). Key elements include multi-layer insulation, thermodynamic vent systems (TVS), vapor-cooled shields, and active cryo-coolers aimed at achieving near-zero boil-off (ZBO) performance. 3/ The agencys test facilities employ recirculation-type feed systems to evaluate propellant conditioning, thermal stratification mitigation, and low-gravity management. These configurations simulate the dynamic thermal control required during orbital coast phases, precisely the challenges Starship addresses for Human Landing System (HLS) missions and future Mars transits. 4/ SpaceXs V3 design incorporates an electrically driven recirculation loop that draws subcooled propellant from the tanks, routes it through conditioning lines for heat rejection, and returns it to the header tanks and ullage spaces. This prevents vapor pressure buildup and ensures reliable propellant availability for main engine relight, in-space refueling, and RCS operations. 5/ The upgraded RCS thrusters further integrate with this system, allowing efficient use of thermally managed cryogenic propellants rather than separate cold-gas supplies. This aligns with NASA-supported testing of integrated propulsion and attitude control in cryogenic environments. 6/ Through ongoing collaboration, including Tipping Point demonstrations and joint flight tests, NASA CFM data, modeling tools, and ground validation have informed Starships architecture. The result is a commercially optimized system that delivers the extended orbital dwell times essential for sustainable lunar and deep-space exploration. 7/ Starship V3s cryogenic recirculation is a critical new capability introduced with this new version of Starship and is likely a practical application of NASAs foundational research while translating ZBO concepts and recirculation feed systems into flight hardware. This advancement significantly enhances Starships operational envelope for the Artemis program, @SpaceX short to medium term plans for Lunar manufacturing bases and operations, its medium to long term Mars colonization objectives and beyond. This foundational capability, the incorporation of @NASA research, and the inevitable further iterative approach to add more elements to the system to allow very long-term operations is equally as important to Starship mission capabilities as Id on-orbit refilling. Both provide Starship the ability to expand our practical reach well beyond LEO. Id note that this is likely the first step,of many @SpaceX will iterate through to improve the duration of missions. For now, @SpaceX has said this initial version of the V3 ship can remain in orbit for about 48 hours. This will likely extend to longer durations with additional system components added to future versions of the V3 ships. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....29f1392254.png |
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