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Originally Posted by ORAC
(Post 12083401)
They have to be able to handle the difference between the weight and the thrust at the moment of release.
You will not the initial slow acceleration of the Statship/booster as opposed to those with side solid fuel boosters. Hold downs are nothing new. Unlike solids (which build up pressure very rapidly), most liquid fuel rocket engines take several seconds to build up to full thrust - and the hold downs make sure the rocket stays put until the rocket engines are up to pressure and can control the trajectory of the rocket. There are several good videos of the hold downs releasing on the Saturn 1B and Saturn V launches. |
I think we are saying the same thing.
The Starship booster accelerates slowly and the thrust builds and the hold-downs release when the thrust exceeds the weight of the vehicle. That equates to the engine thrust minus the weght of the vehicle. The clamps must hold the rocket down against the net force, which is the total engine thrust minus the vehicle's weight (approximately 505,846 kg ×9.81m/s2). At launch, the SpaceX Falcon 9 booster hold-down clamps withstand a net force of approximately 923kN (207,500lbf) immediately before release, though the engines themselves produce over 5,885kN (1.300,000lbf) of thrust at sea level. |
https://x.com/CeaserG33/status/2053085282933616971?s=20 SpaceX just stacked Starship for the first time on Pad 2. Booster 19 and Ship 39 have formed a full V3 stack on the new pad, smashing the record once again as the tallest rocket on Earth! |
Top: Flight 11 stack of Booster 15-2 and Ship 38
Bottom: Flight 12 stack of Booster 19 and Ship 39 https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bebc9fe5d1.png https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7a05db7d54.png |
https://x.com/ErnestCalFab/status/20...180787234?s=20 Very interesting, the new version of Starship incorporates orientation engines at the base of the lower flaps. These will serve for precision maneuvers for orbital docking. With this, we now know what those mysterious pipes on the flaps are for. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....46cac60a7d.png https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....737d952874.png https://x.com/ErnestCalFab/status/20...839469025?s=20 We can also see the engine bay camera and the height where the previous false roof (yellow) used to be; now it has been removed thanks to the Raptor 3, and we can see how the fuselage continues behind it. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e612c82e81.png |
It looks truly sci-fi-esque.
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
(Post 12083974)
It looks truly sci-fi-esque.
Watching recent events in South Texas, and elsewhere, I am coming round to the idea that, possibly not in this generation, but we may actually witnessing the beginning of Earthlings' journey to the planets. |
I might not get invited anyway but I wouldn't want to go one way to Mars for sure.
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https://x.com/grok/status/2053339442039926862?s=20 The WDR for Starship Flight 12 was aborted just before propellant loading—likely a sensor or ground system anomaly triggering SpaceX's safety abort. No detailed cause released yet. They'll reattempt next week. If that succeeds smoothly, I'd guess NET launch late May/early June, but Starship timelines often shift. After last nights aborted WDR, Crews have removed the Tower vent from Pad 2. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5cb61714f.jpeg |
May or may not have been requested before the latest issue, but indicates no RTLS but another Indian ocean landing.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8ca97deb4c.png |
https://x.com/Flight2Starship/status...988204398?s=20 A replacement pipe is now being installed on Tower 2!! https://x.com/Flight2Starship/status...727888934?s=20 New road closures for a Wet Dress Rehearsal of Ship 39 & Booster 19 have been published. Primary tomorrow May 11 with backups on May 12 and 13. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....53b74a04fe.png https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d245504b2d.png |
https://x.com/SpaceX/status/2053929135936864393?s=20 Launch rehearsal complete. During a flight-like countdown, more than 5,000 metric tonnes (11+ million pounds) of propellant were loaded on the fully stacked Starship and Super Heavy V3 vehicles for the first time https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c29f0a1fe.jpeg |
Blimey, it towers above a Saturn V at 408 feet against 363 feet. That's a touch more than 40 feet higher that St Pauls.
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Video
https://x.com/LabPadre/status/2054014575322775567?s=20 The new SpaceX barge, You'll Thank Me Later, appeared at Port Canaveral earlier today, where crews were working on outfitting her ready for transporting Super Heavy and Starship vehicles from Starbase to the Cape. |
……………
https://x.com/NASASpaceflight/status...975208256?s=20 Starship Flight 12: Navigational warnings indicate SpaceX is now targeting NET May 19 for launch. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ec55af26b.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b3ea43516.jpeg And now the NOTAM. Again, these are NETs (No Earlier Than), and it's for SpaceX to note their own target, which could be a day or so beyond this. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....531e319d7.jpeg |
Next stop Louisiana?
https://x.com/SpaceX/status/2054295243122717105?s=20 It’s no secret that we intend to launch Starship a lot, targeting thousands of flights per year. That cadence will require the ability to launch from many different locations, so we are constantly exploring to find viable sites to expand Starship operations in the future, both domestically and internationally https://x.com/SERobinsonJr/status/20...878559829?s=20 SPACEX: A realtor named Jim Keaty of Keaty Real Estate published a rumor of possible SpaceX land acquisition in Louisiana. It states SpaceX may have acquired or is acquiring 136k acres (212 sq miles) of marshland south of Highway 82 towards the Gulf of America in Pecan Island and Freshwater City in Vermilion Parish of the Acadiana region. At the Southeast corner of the land near the Freshwater City boat launch is a plot ready to be converted for port operations and direct access to the Intercoastal Canal and the Gulf of America. Pecan Island is halfway between Boca Chica and Cape Canaveral, and has easy access to Cheniere LNG and Golden Pass LNG; both on the either side of the Louisiana and Texas border at Sabine Pass. This has not been confirmed by SpaceX of Elon. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1b90bc755.jpeg |
A lot of changes. Hope they all work.
https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/2...220775515?s=20 SpaceX has just released a massive new list of changes in Starship V3, which is now scheduled to launch on May 19th: Super Heavy V3 Changes Grid Fin Redesign: • Reduced from 4 fins to 3, • Each fin is now: 50% larger, stronger, repositioned for better catching/lifting, • Lowered on booster to reduce heat exposure during hot staging, • Fin hardware moved inside fuel tank for protection. Integrated Hot Stage: • Removes the old disposable interstage shield, • Booster dome now directly exposed to upper-stage engine ignition, • Tank pressure + steel shielding protect structure, • Interstage actuators retract after separation for protection. New Fuel Transfer System: • Massive redesign of fuel transfer tube, • Roughly the size of a Falcon 9 first stage, • Allows: simultaneous startup of all 33 Raptors, faster and more reliable flip maneuvers. Engine Bay / Thermal Protection Changes: • Engine shrouds removed entirely, • New shielding added between engines, •Propulsion + avionics more tightly integrated, • CO₂ fire suppression system removed, • Simpler and lighter aft section. Propellant Loading Improvements: • Moved from 1 quick disconnect to 2 separate systems, • Adds redundancy, • Reduces complexity of pad interfaces. Starship V3 Changes Completely Redesigned Propulsion System: • Clean-sheet redesign, • Supports: new Raptor startup method, larger propellant volume and improved reaction control system, • Reduces trapped/leaked propellant risk. Aft Section Simplification: • Fluid + electrical systems rerouted, • Engine shrouds deleted, • Large aft cavity removed. Flap Actuation Upgrade: • Changed from: 2 actuators per flap to 1 actuator with 3 motors, • Improves:, redundancy, mass efficiency, cost. Faster Starlink Deployment: • Upgraded PEZ dispenser, • Faster satellite deployment speeds. Long-Duration Spaceflight Capability: • New systems added for: long orbital coasts, orbital refueling, cryogenic fluid management, vacuum, insulated header systems and high-voltage cryogenic recirculation. Ship-to-Ship Docking + Refueling: • Added 4 docking drogues, • Added propellant transfer connections, • Directly supports in-space refueling architecture. Avionics Upgrades Massive Electrical System Upgrade: • ~60 custom avionics units • Batteries/inverters/high-voltage systems integrated together • ~9 MW peak power capability Better Navigation + Redundancy: • New multi-sensor navigation system, • Designed for precision autonomous flight. Propellant Monitoring in Space: • New RF sensors measure propellant levels in microgravity, • Important for orbital refueling missions. Camera + Connectivity Upgrades: • ~50 onboard camera views, • 480 Mbps Starlink connectivity onboard, • Low-latency redundant communications. Raptor 3 Engine Changes Higher Thrust: • Sea-level Raptors: • Increased from: 230 tf → 250 tf 507k lbf → 551k lbf, Vacuum Raptors: Increased from: 258 tf → 275 tf 568k lbf → 606k lbf Lower Mass: • Sea-level engine mass reduced: 1630 kg → 1525 kg. Simpler Design: • Sensors/controllers integrated into engine body, • Removes need for engine shrouds, • New ignition system for all variants, • Huge Vehicle-Level Weight Savings, • ~1 ton saved per engine across vehicle systems. Launch Pad 2 Upgrades (Starbase) Faster Propellant Loading: • Larger propellant farm, • More pumps, • Faster fueling operations. Chopstick Improvements: • Shorter arms for faster movement, • Switched from hydraulic → electromechanical actuators, • Better reliability + redundancy. Stronger Quick Disconnect Arm: • Reinforced and redesigned, • Swings farther away during launch. Launch Mount Redesign: • Better load handling, • Improved launch protection, • Improved throwback reliability. New Flame Diverter System: • Bidirectional flame diverter, • Designed to eliminate ablation/refurbishment after launch. Hardened Propellant Systems: • Methane and oxygen systems separated, • Valves/filters moved into protected bunker, • Improves safety and reliability. SpaceX: "Together, these new elements are designed to enable a step-change in Starship capabilities and aim to unlock the vehicle’s core functions, including full and rapid reuse, in-space propellant transfer, deployment of Starlink satellites and orbital data centers, and the ability to send people and cargo to the Moon and Mars." |
Videos
https://x.com/efraser77/status/2054420839769260335?s=20 Over the course of about 16 hours Tuesday, both Ship 39 and Booster 19 were removed from the launch mount and taken back to the Mega Bays, where they will be prepared for Flight 12, currently NET May 19. |
Video simulation.
https://x.com/XploraSpace/status/205...238292288?s=20 12th Starship test flight: SpaceX will film the exterior of its spacecraft using cameras mounted on Starlink simulators. During the deployment of the 22 simulators, the last two satellites will inspect the heat shield of Ship 39 and transmit the images to ground teams. Objective: test new methods for analyzing the heat shield ahead of future returns of the spacecraft directly to its launch site. Several tiles on the Ship have been painted white to simulate missing tiles and serve as imaging targets during the test. The Starlink simulators will follow a suborbital trajectory close to that of the spacecraft to maximize imaging opportunities. The in-orbit relight of a Raptor engine is also among the mission's objectives....... |
Contains copies of numerous NASA slides and others illustrating each point.
https://x.com/JoeTegtmeyer/status/20...475903829?s=20 With new information released by @SpaceX on the design of V3 Starship, one interesting new capability is the high-voltage electrically actuated cryogenic recirculation system and other upgrades designed to increase the time the ship can operate in space. I thought this sounded familiar to recent @NASA research on this topic as well as the publicized collaborative work with @SpaceX using this and other related research efforts. Starship V3 Cryogenic Recirculation – Integrating NASA Research for Extended Orbital Operations 1/ Starship Version 3 introduces a high-voltage electrically actuated cryogenic recirculation system, supported by 100% vacuum-jacketed header feed lines and upgraded RCS thrusters. This capability enables prolonged on-orbit operations by maintaining propellant quality over extended periods. It directly builds upon NASA cryogenic fluid management (CFM) research. 2/ NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center has advanced technologies for long-duration storage and transfer of liquid oxygen (LOX) and liquid methane (LCH4). Key elements include multi-layer insulation, thermodynamic vent systems (TVS), vapor-cooled shields, and active cryo-coolers aimed at achieving near-zero boil-off (ZBO) performance. 3/ The agency’s test facilities employ recirculation-type feed systems to evaluate propellant conditioning, thermal stratification mitigation, and low-gravity management. These configurations simulate the dynamic thermal control required during orbital coast phases, precisely the challenges Starship addresses for Human Landing System (HLS) missions and future Mars transits. 4/ SpaceX’s V3 design incorporates an electrically driven recirculation loop that draws subcooled propellant from the tanks, routes it through conditioning lines for heat rejection, and returns it to the header tanks and ullage spaces. This prevents vapor pressure buildup and ensures reliable propellant availability for main engine relight, in-space refueling, and RCS operations. 5/ The upgraded RCS thrusters further integrate with this system, allowing efficient use of thermally managed cryogenic propellants rather than separate cold-gas supplies. This aligns with NASA-supported testing of integrated propulsion and attitude control in cryogenic environments. 6/ Through ongoing collaboration, including Tipping Point demonstrations and joint flight tests, NASA CFM data, modeling tools, and ground validation have informed Starship’s architecture. The result is a commercially optimized system that delivers the extended orbital dwell times essential for sustainable lunar and deep-space exploration. 7/ Starship V3’s cryogenic recirculation is a critical new capability introduced with this new version of Starship and is likely a practical application of NASA’s foundational research while translating ZBO concepts and recirculation feed systems into flight hardware. This advancement significantly enhances Starship’s operational envelope for the Artemis program, @SpaceX short to medium term plans for Lunar manufacturing bases and operations, its medium to long term Mars colonization objectives and beyond. This foundational capability, the incorporation of @NASA research, and the inevitable further iterative approach to add more elements to the system to allow very long-term operations is equally as important to Starship mission capabilities as I’d on-orbit refilling. Both provide Starship the ability to expand our practical reach well beyond LEO. I’d note that this is likely the first step,of many @SpaceX will iterate through to improve the duration of missions. For now, @SpaceX has said this initial version of the V3 ship can remain in orbit for about 48 hours. This will likely extend to longer durations with additional system components added to future versions of the V3 ships. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....29f1392254.png |
ORAC, thank you again for keeping all of us "Space Nuts" up to date on SpaceX's phenomenal progress!
- Ed |
Presumably trying it a replacement/repaired pump - or the performance without it…. And from all appearances successfully.
Video https://x.com/VickiCocks15/status/20...357139198?s=20 A 2nd full deluge test, including top deck, has been carried out today. |
19m video
https://x.com/SERobinsonJr/status/20...335260415?s=20 SPACEX: I visited Pecan Island in Louisiana's Vermilion Parish. The 136,000-acre site, owned by ExxonMobil and Vermilion Corporation, is under consideration by SpaceX for their next spaceport. Vermilion Corporation owns an unused dock on Freshwater Bayou at the mouth of the Gulf of America. This location would allow SpaceX to barge Super Heavy Boosters and Starships from Starbase. Farther north lies the Freshwater City public boat ramp and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Freshwater Lock, which connects to the Intracoastal Waterway. I flew over the area closest to the port. The land appears stable. Note that the full 212-square-mile site extends across the entire area visible east of the port |
https://x.com/StarshipGazer/status/2...417446193?s=20 Starship 39 has returned to the production site for loading of the 22 Starlink simulator satellites and final launch preparations after completing final testing at Starbase Massey's test site at T-minus 82 hrs and counting! |
https://x.com/JoeTegtmeyer/status/20...588801191?s=20 Something I haven’t heard discussed very much is how the new @SpaceX Starship V3 has been configured for on-orbit refueling … something that is absolutely essential for Starship to conduct any mission beyond LEO, and arguably a critical capability for any significant operational missions in various earth orbits as well. According to SpaceX, “Four docking drogues have also been added on the leeward side of the vehicles to enable docking with other Starships, along with propellant feed connections for ship-to-ship propellant transfer.” So, how will this system work? SpaceX has adapted its tried and true DragonEye System from the Dragon capsule for Starship operations into housings under each of the four probe and rogue enclosures on the leeward side of the ship. (See images) These DragonEye navigation sensors support autonomous rendezvous operations and leverage proven flight heritage from the Dragon spacecraft’s successful dockings with the International Space Station. These have undergone dedicated testing to validate their performance in the Starship configuration. Flight 12 will be the first time a Starship has launched with this system, although it won’t be until later flights when a rendezvous in orbit will be demonstrated. The DragonEye LIDAR units are integrated into the forward avionics and structural sections of Starship, positioned to provide an unobstructed line of sight during approach maneuvers. On Starship V3, this aligns with the addition of four docking drogues and associated propellant feed connections located on the leeward side of the vehicle. These features enable secure mating with another Starship, along with the necessary umbilical interfaces for propellant transfer. The sensor suite is recessed or flush-mounted within protective bays or fairings, similar to its placement on Dragon, ensuring it remains shielded during atmospheric flight while deployable or exposed in orbit. Here’s how it would work in practice: Both tanker (chaser) and receiver (target/depot) Starships carry the sensors, allowing flexible role assignment in paired operations. In the orbital refueling scenario, one Starship assumes the active “chaser” role (typically the tanker), while the other serves as the passive “receiver” (target or depot). Rendezvous Phase: The chaser employs its DragonEye flash LIDAR sensor to emit laser pulses toward the receiver. Retro-reflectors (corner-cube arrays) on the receiver enhance signal return, enabling precise three-dimensional range, bearing, and relative attitude measurements in real time. This provides centimeter-level accuracy for safe closure from kilometers to meters. Approach and Alignment: Data from DragonEye is fused with other navigation inputs (e.g., star trackers and RF systems) to guide autonomous thruster firings, ensuring alignment of the docking interfaces. Docking and Transfer: Once within close proximity, the chaser’s docking probe engages the receiver’s drogue, achieving a hard mate. Propellant transfer then occurs via a pressure-differential system through the integrated umbilicals, with settling thrusters used to manage microgravity fluid dynamics. Symmetry and Redundancy: Because both vehicles share identical sensors, software, and docking hardware, the system supports bidirectional capability if roles reverse. Post-docking, the connection is released after transfer is complete. This architecture draws directly from Dragon’s operational success, scaled for Starship’s larger size and cryogenic propellant handling requirements. I suspect this capability will not only be tested and demonstrated in future Starship flights later this year and throughout 2027, but it may be part of the upcoming @NASAArtemis III test and demo mission to ensure Starship and the HLS lunar lander will be ready for Artemis IV landing on the moon in 2028. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7657364703.png https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b939ed4b50.png https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6004a81733.png |
Ships sailing from Australia for the Starship landing zone.
https://x.com/mcrs987/status/2055904631541092602?s=20 Alright we're doing this again, I guess. First of two vessels, Offshore supplier has just departed en route to the ship LZ w/ an ETA of May 20th https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....652859a6b9.png |
What bizarre (mis)use of language - what can't they speak english? What is "on-orbit"? Do they not mean "in orbit? Then why not say so?
And Starship "leverages" tanker vehicles does it? What the heck is that supposed to mean? It uses them? Then why not say so instead of using a ridiculous gobbledegook term? |
IPO speak
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Erewegoagin! IPO?
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STARSHIP FLIGHT 12: A 24 hour delay. No earlier than May 20th at 22:30 UTC.
Weather forecast for the 20th is poor so a further delay is expected. |
Originally Posted by meleagertoo
(Post 12087651)
Erewegoagin! IPO?
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https://x.com/mcrs987/status/2056163777272295660?s=20 All four ocean assets supporting Starship and Superheavy recovery operations are now outbound. Offshore Supplier and Offshore Surveyor for Ship, Hayden and Percival for Superheavy. |
SpaceX now saying the earliest flight 12 launch date is May 21.
Of the two Indian Ocean ships mentioned, ShipAtlas shows Offshore Supplier underway in a plausible direction to the impact site, but Offore Surveyor has just been moving about near port at Exmouth. I've not yet spotted the two Booster asset vessels in plausible motion, but they don't need so much time to get where they need to go. |
Delicious detail of Ship 39, taken this morning during its rollout to Pad 2.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5fcf7bcd81.png https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e5ce3b20c3.png |
Starship and Super Heavy V3 have moved to the pad for final testing and preparations for launch, now fully stacked. Launch window opens tomorrow Thursday, May 21st.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c68e8cacae.png https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....175052416c.png |
https://x.com/spacex/status/2057293620676272336?s=20 watch starship's twelfth flight test. the 90-minute test window opens at 5:30 p.m. Ct with live coverage starting ~45 minutes before liftoff. Weather is currently 55% favorable for liftoff → https://www.spacex.com/launches/starship-flight-12 |
Just a quickie 'time, clock UTC' thing.
Being here in Aus, in the future :) Our days start before everyone else, so it gets to be confusing when launch dates and particularly times, occur. I use Edge (Win11) I don't use Chrome, but it works fine for me on Edge. I found a nice simple extension called GMT/UTC clock. It sits on the top right of my windows, next to Favorites and other stuff like that. It is Green in colour so easy to see. So when I need to know the Date and Time in UTC, I simply move my mouse over it and 1 click. A small box pops up (no huge overlaying window), showing me all I need to know. No adverts, no reminders, no pop ups - nice and simple... :) Might be useful for people overseas. GMT/UTC Clock - Chrome Web Store |
Ho-hum. Try again tomorrow, I guess...
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Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless
(Post 12089873)
Ho-hum..
But when it doesn't go as - you - wanted, it must be a bummer of one's morning... Maybe planting some petunias might be more interesting...? A bit disingenuous to go 'Oh Hum' IMO. Lots of dosh and pressure on a massive scale to see these launch events. |
Not sure how an innocent "Ho-hum" got interpreted as a lack of interest - staying up until 0045L on a school night not as trivial an undertaking as it used to be :)
Musk said on social media that the delay was caused by a malfunctioning hydraulic pin on part of the launch tower. "If that can be fixed tonight, there will be another launch attempt tomorrow at 5:30 CT [22:30 GMT]," he added. Another late night beckons! |
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