Boeing Starliner
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From: Peripatetic
Boeing Starliner
Boeing is having no luck - or yet another example of poor design and/or quality control, depending how you view it….
https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/08/0...oubleshooting/
Boeing’s Starliner capsule returns to hangar for valve troubleshooting
https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/08/0...oubleshooting/
Boeing’s Starliner capsule returns to hangar for valve troubleshooting
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From: Brum
Starliner update
How on earth did it make it to the pad with 13 non-functioning valves...?!
Hammer and blowtorch presumably...
How on earth did it make it to the pad with 13 non-functioning valves...?!
This weekend, Boeing restored functionality on more of the 13 CST-100 Starliner propulsion system valves that did not open as designed during prelaunch system checks last week.
Boeing has completed physical inspections and chemical sampling on the exterior of a number of the affected valves, which indicated no signs of damage or external corrosion. Test teams are now applying mechanical, electrical and thermal techniques to prompt the valves open. Seven of the 13 valves are now operating as designed, with inspection and remediation of the remaining affected valves to be performed in the days ahead.
Boeing is working a systematic plan to open the affected valves, demonstrate repeatable system performance, and verify the root cause of the issue before returning Starliner to the launch pad for its Orbital Flight Test-2 mission.
The company is assessing multiple launch opportunities for Starliner in August and will work with NASA and United Launch Alliance to confirm those dates when the spacecraft is ready.
Boeing will continue to provide information at www.StarlinerUpdates.com as it becomes available.
Boeing has completed physical inspections and chemical sampling on the exterior of a number of the affected valves, which indicated no signs of damage or external corrosion. Test teams are now applying mechanical, electrical and thermal techniques to prompt the valves open. Seven of the 13 valves are now operating as designed, with inspection and remediation of the remaining affected valves to be performed in the days ahead.
Boeing is working a systematic plan to open the affected valves, demonstrate repeatable system performance, and verify the root cause of the issue before returning Starliner to the launch pad for its Orbital Flight Test-2 mission.
The company is assessing multiple launch opportunities for Starliner in August and will work with NASA and United Launch Alliance to confirm those dates when the spacecraft is ready.
Boeing will continue to provide information at www.StarlinerUpdates.com as it becomes available.
teams are now applying mechanical, electrical and thermal techniques to prompt the valves open
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From: Texas
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From: Peripatetic
The problem is that Boeing have no idea of th3 root cause if the failure, and therefore no way of guaranteeing it won’t reoccur during the stresses of launch or exposure to space.
Their access is limited in that the valves are all mounted internally in the vehicle. Their available external testing if the valves shows no corrosion o4 material problems, they seem fine. They have been able to “jiggle” them using heat etc to work, but can they be sure they’ll continue to work?
They could roll the dive and launch, after all it’s unmanned, but would NASA feel safe to then go straight to manned flights without being 100% certain if th3 cause?
Bottom line - NASA won’t let them fly until they can identify the roof cause and prove it has been resolved. As such I can’t see how it can fly until they’ve been removed and had detailed internal inspections - however desperately Boeing argue the case with NASA.
Their access is limited in that the valves are all mounted internally in the vehicle. Their available external testing if the valves shows no corrosion o4 material problems, they seem fine. They have been able to “jiggle” them using heat etc to work, but can they be sure they’ll continue to work?
They could roll the dive and launch, after all it’s unmanned, but would NASA feel safe to then go straight to manned flights without being 100% certain if th3 cause?
Bottom line - NASA won’t let them fly until they can identify the roof cause and prove it has been resolved. As such I can’t see how it can fly until they’ve been removed and had detailed internal inspections - however desperately Boeing argue the case with NASA.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 180
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From: Texas
The problem is that Boeing have no idea of th3 root cause if the failure, and therefore no way of guaranteeing it won’t reoccur during the stresses of launch or exposure to space.
Their access is limited in that the valves are all mounted internally in the vehicle. Their available external testing if the valves shows no corrosion o4 material problems, they seem fine. They have been able to “jiggle” them using heat etc to work, but can they be sure they’ll continue to work?
They could roll the dive and launch, after all it’s unmanned, but would NASA feel safe to then go straight to manned flights without being 100% certain if th3 cause?
Bottom line - NASA won’t let them fly until they can identify the roof cause and prove it has been resolved. As such I can’t see how it can fly until they’ve been removed and had detailed internal inspections - however desperately Boeing argue the case with NASA.
Their access is limited in that the valves are all mounted internally in the vehicle. Their available external testing if the valves shows no corrosion o4 material problems, they seem fine. They have been able to “jiggle” them using heat etc to work, but can they be sure they’ll continue to work?
They could roll the dive and launch, after all it’s unmanned, but would NASA feel safe to then go straight to manned flights without being 100% certain if th3 cause?
Bottom line - NASA won’t let them fly until they can identify the roof cause and prove it has been resolved. As such I can’t see how it can fly until they’ve been removed and had detailed internal inspections - however desperately Boeing argue the case with NASA.
Best case, it works, but Boeing still has to figure out the root cause and show to NASA's satisfaction it has been addressed. Cue flight test #3?
Worst case, it doesn't work, Boeing has yet another media black eye and still has to figure out what went wrong. I suspect there will be more than a few folks calling for cancellation of Boeing's contract.
I'm guessing there will be no dice rolling, no launch, and Starliner isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
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From: Texas
I was wrong, Starliner is going someplace... back to the factory for further troubleshooting
https://starlinerupdates.com/starlin...e-valve-issue/
https://starlinerupdates.com/starlin...e-valve-issue/
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Brings back painful memories of the Apollo 1 fire in 1967. That ship was an accident waiting to happen; I fear Starliner may be one as well. Time to pull the plug IMHO.
- Ed
- Ed
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From: The Winchester
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From: Arlington, Tx. US
Time to kick this pig to the curb and hope Sierra's space plane works.
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From: Peripatetic
https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/0...ound-problems/
……These new problems are likely to ratchet up concerns from outside observers about the safety culture at Boeing.
Last week, NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel urged NASA to bring in independent experts to assess the viability of Starliner.
“Given the number of remaining challenges to certification of Starliner, we strongly encourage NASA to step back and take a measured look at the remaining body of work with respect to flying CFT,” Patricia Sanders, chair of the committee, said on May 25.
She believes NASA should bring in an independent team, such as from the NASA Engineering and Safety Center, “to take a deep look at the items on the path to closure.”
That was before the most recent issues cropped up. Doubtless, safety experts will be concerned about how these issues went undiscovered by Boeing and NASA until the final weeks leading up to the flight…..
Questions have been raised about whether Boeing will remain committed to the Starliner program, which is already a money loser.
The company is contracted to fly six missions for NASA after certification of the Starliner vehicle, which will only occur after the crewed flight test. Boeing has already received much of the $4.2 billion from NASA in milestone awards, so it presumably would have to give some of that money back if it did not fly astronauts for NASA. But the cost of flying those missions may be greater than any funding Boeing would have to pay back to NASA.….
……These new problems are likely to ratchet up concerns from outside observers about the safety culture at Boeing.
Last week, NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel urged NASA to bring in independent experts to assess the viability of Starliner.
“Given the number of remaining challenges to certification of Starliner, we strongly encourage NASA to step back and take a measured look at the remaining body of work with respect to flying CFT,” Patricia Sanders, chair of the committee, said on May 25.
She believes NASA should bring in an independent team, such as from the NASA Engineering and Safety Center, “to take a deep look at the items on the path to closure.”
That was before the most recent issues cropped up. Doubtless, safety experts will be concerned about how these issues went undiscovered by Boeing and NASA until the final weeks leading up to the flight…..
Questions have been raised about whether Boeing will remain committed to the Starliner program, which is already a money loser.
The company is contracted to fly six missions for NASA after certification of the Starliner vehicle, which will only occur after the crewed flight test. Boeing has already received much of the $4.2 billion from NASA in milestone awards, so it presumably would have to give some of that money back if it did not fly astronauts for NASA. But the cost of flying those missions may be greater than any funding Boeing would have to pay back to NASA.….
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From: Arlington, Tx. US
Update to the latest delay.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/07/boei...for-march.html
Now the earliest for a crewed test flight is March 2024 with first operational flight sometime in 2025. This is eight years after the originally planned 2017 operational date and 6 years after the failed initial test flight.
Boing continues to excel!
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/07/boei...for-march.html
Now the earliest for a crewed test flight is March 2024 with first operational flight sometime in 2025. This is eight years after the originally planned 2017 operational date and 6 years after the failed initial test flight.
Boing continues to excel!
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First launch planned for 0234 UTC Tuesday , 2234 EDT today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpeg21x7n7qo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpeg21x7n7qo
https://x.com/boeingspace/status/178...HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
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From: Peripatetic
Flight scrubbed, due a valve problem on the launch vehicle not a capsule issue, next attempt NET Friday.
Space.com:
”It will take a few days to work through the valve issue that scrubbed the first astronaut mission of Boeing's Starliner capsule.
A test mission to the International Space Station called Crew Flight Test (CFT).CFT was supposed to launch on Monday night (May 6).
That attempt was called off about two hours before the planned liftoff, however, due to an issue with a pressure regulation valve on the liquid oxygen tank in the upper stage of Starliner's rocket ride, a United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V.
Early on Tuesday morning (May 7), NASA announced that launch teams need more time to troubleshoot the issue. The earliest that CFT could launch is now Friday night (May 10), at 9 p.m. EDT (0100 GMT on May 11).”
Space.com:
”It will take a few days to work through the valve issue that scrubbed the first astronaut mission of Boeing's Starliner capsule.
A test mission to the International Space Station called Crew Flight Test (CFT).CFT was supposed to launch on Monday night (May 6).
That attempt was called off about two hours before the planned liftoff, however, due to an issue with a pressure regulation valve on the liquid oxygen tank in the upper stage of Starliner's rocket ride, a United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V.
Early on Tuesday morning (May 7), NASA announced that launch teams need more time to troubleshoot the issue. The earliest that CFT could launch is now Friday night (May 10), at 9 p.m. EDT (0100 GMT on May 11).”
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From: Peripatetic
ULA will roll the Atlas V rocket back to its hangar to replace a faulty valve in its upper stage. Next launch attempt is 10 days from today.
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/