Russian Sub - "Kursk"
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Doesn't sound good this morning, does it? God help them.
There are all sorts of things which smell about this.
1.If this was a major Fleet exercise, the underwater area would have been like Picadilly Circus in the rush hour, filled with all sorts of boats sniffing around. Collision quite possible - and probably the loss/damage to the other boat being easy to surpress in the short term. Don't discount the collision theory but the US seems to believe a collision with the bottom - equally possible.
2. Why has the reactor been shut down? If it was still operating, they would have plenty of air etc 'cos they could run the electrolysers, CO2 scrubbers etc. Was the damage such that they either lost the reactor or had to shut it down?
3. Why haven't they tried to escape? A rush escape at their depth (flood up the escape compartment to equalise pressure, open the escape hatch to sea, take a deep breath and breath out all the way to the surface) would be an act of desperation but it has been trialled to 300' and would be better than definitely dying. A tower escape (put the suit on, into the escape tower, flood up the tower to equalise, breathing sub's air throughout, open the hatch and breath normally in the inflated suit to the surface) should be perfectly feasible at their depth.
Perhaps the damage was such that the reactor was put out of action and the escape hatches distorted so much that they couldn't be opened - in which case ikt won't make any difference whose rescue vehicle gets there, it will still take too much time.
Whatever - anybody who has ever served in submarines will shudder at the ultimate nightmare come true.
There are all sorts of things which smell about this.
1.If this was a major Fleet exercise, the underwater area would have been like Picadilly Circus in the rush hour, filled with all sorts of boats sniffing around. Collision quite possible - and probably the loss/damage to the other boat being easy to surpress in the short term. Don't discount the collision theory but the US seems to believe a collision with the bottom - equally possible.
2. Why has the reactor been shut down? If it was still operating, they would have plenty of air etc 'cos they could run the electrolysers, CO2 scrubbers etc. Was the damage such that they either lost the reactor or had to shut it down?
3. Why haven't they tried to escape? A rush escape at their depth (flood up the escape compartment to equalise pressure, open the escape hatch to sea, take a deep breath and breath out all the way to the surface) would be an act of desperation but it has been trialled to 300' and would be better than definitely dying. A tower escape (put the suit on, into the escape tower, flood up the tower to equalise, breathing sub's air throughout, open the hatch and breath normally in the inflated suit to the surface) should be perfectly feasible at their depth.
Perhaps the damage was such that the reactor was put out of action and the escape hatches distorted so much that they couldn't be opened - in which case ikt won't make any difference whose rescue vehicle gets there, it will still take too much time.
Whatever - anybody who has ever served in submarines will shudder at the ultimate nightmare come true.
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Stump the dummy time...
Why is this sub only being flown as far as Trondheim? Why not all the way to Murmansk, which I believe is the port closest to the sub? Two days are being used up with the sea voyage to the site?
I am sure there is a very good explanation?
JJM
The news starting to come out of a massive exposion rather leads one to fear the worst occurred almost immediately.
After the rescue/recovery of the crew, the question of radiation containment must be high on the agenda, if not for the rescuers/salvage folks.
Awful,awful.
Why is this sub only being flown as far as Trondheim? Why not all the way to Murmansk, which I believe is the port closest to the sub? Two days are being used up with the sea voyage to the site?
I am sure there is a very good explanation?
JJM
The news starting to come out of a massive exposion rather leads one to fear the worst occurred almost immediately.
After the rescue/recovery of the crew, the question of radiation containment must be high on the agenda, if not for the rescuers/salvage folks.
Awful,awful.
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Well, 2 explosions would do it, alright. Nobody's submarines these days can survive the flooding of even one compartment without sinking and from what the Russians are saying, the hull was breached from right foward back to the conning tower. For us, that would mean 2 compartments, including the torpedo compartment which contains the forward escape tower.
I'm afraid it also means that most of the crew would have been killed immediately since I imagine (I hope) all the accommodation areas are forward of the reactor compartment and the only people who would have been aft of the reactor compartment at the time of the accident would have been a small watch of engineers. If it's only a small number of people aft, then there should be enough air for some considerable time.
So far as radiation is concerned, it would seem that the reactor compartment hasn't been breached so far and, so long as that remains the case, any radiation is contained. After all, nobody has yet figured out an acceptable way to decommission nuclear submarines. Every one that has ever been built and is no longer active is alongside somehere (or up a creek) with its reactor permanently shut down and someone keeping some sort of an eye on it. When there is eventually a breach on the Kursk (rust or the collapse of an already weakened reactor compartment bulkhead), I'm no expert but I believe the environmental damage should be relatively small and confined to the local area. Certainly no explosions and fissile material scattered for miles. Sadly, there are already other nuclear boats, both US and Russian, which have gone down without causing environmental disasters.
Dreadful.
I'm afraid it also means that most of the crew would have been killed immediately since I imagine (I hope) all the accommodation areas are forward of the reactor compartment and the only people who would have been aft of the reactor compartment at the time of the accident would have been a small watch of engineers. If it's only a small number of people aft, then there should be enough air for some considerable time.
So far as radiation is concerned, it would seem that the reactor compartment hasn't been breached so far and, so long as that remains the case, any radiation is contained. After all, nobody has yet figured out an acceptable way to decommission nuclear submarines. Every one that has ever been built and is no longer active is alongside somehere (or up a creek) with its reactor permanently shut down and someone keeping some sort of an eye on it. When there is eventually a breach on the Kursk (rust or the collapse of an already weakened reactor compartment bulkhead), I'm no expert but I believe the environmental damage should be relatively small and confined to the local area. Certainly no explosions and fissile material scattered for miles. Sadly, there are already other nuclear boats, both US and Russian, which have gone down without causing environmental disasters.
Dreadful.
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Jurassic,
They cannot put the rescue sub on any boat. They need a suitable A-frame with which to launch and recover it. This means fitting their own A-frame to an appropriately sized/configured vessel.
The rescue team exercise with other navies, including the Norwegeans and have identified a number of 'certified' boats around the world suitable for the task.
These guys are real professionals and have been on stand-by since the incident occurred. They are off to risk their lives for what is likely to be a fruitless exercise, in the service of a government who are cynically manipulating the situation for their own ends.
What ever is found in the murky depths, I hope we see them safe-home, for a true hero's welcome.
Silli
[This message has been edited by Silliname (edited 21 August 2000).]
They cannot put the rescue sub on any boat. They need a suitable A-frame with which to launch and recover it. This means fitting their own A-frame to an appropriately sized/configured vessel.
The rescue team exercise with other navies, including the Norwegeans and have identified a number of 'certified' boats around the world suitable for the task.
These guys are real professionals and have been on stand-by since the incident occurred. They are off to risk their lives for what is likely to be a fruitless exercise, in the service of a government who are cynically manipulating the situation for their own ends.
What ever is found in the murky depths, I hope we see them safe-home, for a true hero's welcome.
Silli
[This message has been edited by Silliname (edited 21 August 2000).]
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Thanks for that info Silliname. As I write the sub is on its way down apparently, preceded by Troll divers.
Fingers crossed, but it really sounds like it was all quickly except for a few poor blokes who may have been at teh very back and got a w/tight hatch closed to make things string out as bit.
JJM
Fingers crossed, but it really sounds like it was all quickly except for a few poor blokes who may have been at teh very back and got a w/tight hatch closed to make things string out as bit.
JJM
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Looks like all the poor souls on board are now dead, it's tragic and heartbreaking and I can't for one moment think what it must have been like for those men. I'ts too scary to think about.
Their poor families must be going through hell, it's impossible to imagine what it must be like for them, not having a clue what's happening and not understanding why something wasn't done sooner.
I don't like lambasting a nation or it's Government but the Russians have some serious questions to answer about this whole thing.
Well done to the Norwegians and the British for doing everything they could to help them.
R.I.P.
Their poor families must be going through hell, it's impossible to imagine what it must be like for them, not having a clue what's happening and not understanding why something wasn't done sooner.
I don't like lambasting a nation or it's Government but the Russians have some serious questions to answer about this whole thing.
Well done to the Norwegians and the British for doing everything they could to help them.
R.I.P.
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Did you see that bloke sedating the angry mother?
JEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSUUUUUUUSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Someone should tell 'em there ain't no Communism anymore. Maybe they knoe the system collapsed, but they're waiting for the paperwork to come through!
Thoughts are with 'em all. Good to see R.N. camaraderie.
JEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSUUUUUUUSSSSSS!!!!!!!
Someone should tell 'em there ain't no Communism anymore. Maybe they knoe the system collapsed, but they're waiting for the paperwork to come through!
Thoughts are with 'em all. Good to see R.N. camaraderie.
