Russian Sub - "Kursk"
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Russian Sub - "Kursk"
I know I shouldn't be posting this here, as it's a non-aviation topic, but please spare a thought for the 100+ crew of the "Kursk" who are stranded 102 metres below the sea and are unlikely to be rescued.
The commander of the Russian Navy has said the chances of them being sucessfully rescued are "highly unlikely" I understand they could have less then 48 hours air supply left even though a rescue sub is feeding them air.
So while we bitch and moan about everything, remember, there are always people worse off then you.
God help them.
The commander of the Russian Navy has said the chances of them being sucessfully rescued are "highly unlikely" I understand they could have less then 48 hours air supply left even though a rescue sub is feeding them air.
So while we bitch and moan about everything, remember, there are always people worse off then you.
God help them.
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And the usual drivel from the press. I think it was BBC that said this morning that they could survive for six months!! I didn't belive that, but I did think that it would be more than 48 hours. Let's hope that they find a way to save them. MAY GOD HELP THEM.
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A far more horrible way to go than befell those on the AF Concorde. There should be a truly international rescue attempt in the next few hours from all those with the requisite technology.
Is it possible to penetrate the hull with an armoured oxygen hose from a remotely-controlled deep submersible to give the Russians some time?
Is it possible to penetrate the hull with an armoured oxygen hose from a remotely-controlled deep submersible to give the Russians some time?
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Agree with the sentiments guys. I hope there is a succesful outcome. God help the poor souls aboard.
Have to move this to another Forum though.....the original will stay here as a pointer.
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PPRuNe Radar
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Have to move this to another Forum though.....the original will stay here as a pointer.
------------------
PPRuNe Radar
ATC Forum Moderator
[email protected]
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Yes BEagle there should be a truly international rescue attempt over the next few hours.....but I doubt there will be.
As usual politics and national security are far more important than human lives. The Russians are not asking the West for help (despite their far superior rescue technology) because they don't want anyone to see what they've got down there.
As usual politics and national security are far more important than human lives. The Russians are not asking the West for help (despite their far superior rescue technology) because they don't want anyone to see what they've got down there.
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Sorry about posting this on R+N PPRuNe Radar, didn't know where else to put it.
I agree with BEagle, there should be an international rescue effort to rescue these sailors, but I also agree that there probably won't be, due to the political points mentioned.
Also agree with Avman about the media. I should have known better in quoting the 48 hour air limit, that was form Paul Beaver!!! You know Sky's favourite "expert" remember his drivel after the Concorde crash?
Anyway, somebody, somehow, save those men....
I agree with BEagle, there should be an international rescue effort to rescue these sailors, but I also agree that there probably won't be, due to the political points mentioned.
Also agree with Avman about the media. I should have known better in quoting the 48 hour air limit, that was form Paul Beaver!!! You know Sky's favourite "expert" remember his drivel after the Concorde crash?
Anyway, somebody, somehow, save those men....
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As fate would have it I was having lunch with a 'pilot' of a British rescue sub as the news came in. He said there would be no difficulty effecting a rescue from the sub, but doubted that the Russians would ask for help. Lets hope reason prevails.
Silli
Silli
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Thoughts are with the poor sods in Russian Navy; no pay for six months and then something like this happens. Thank god I failed my service medical.
Agree with everyone about bloody Politicians ego's (here and abroad).
Why don't we all stump up for a truly 'International Rescue' service (like in Thunderbirds)
The guys can go and rescue people, and the MPs/Senators/Eurocrats etc can do ****** all and take the credit!!!
[This message has been edited by swashplate (edited 15 August 2000).]
Agree with everyone about bloody Politicians ego's (here and abroad).
Why don't we all stump up for a truly 'International Rescue' service (like in Thunderbirds)
The guys can go and rescue people, and the MPs/Senators/Eurocrats etc can do ****** all and take the credit!!!
[This message has been edited by swashplate (edited 15 August 2000).]
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Additional:
How do the Russian Service chiefs know there was a collision - can the subs send radio underwater? Or is it 'cover your **** ' time at the ministry.
I'm speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if this crisis has more to do with a cash-strapped Russian Navy trying to operate 21st Century equipment with 18th century funding & logistics. Life is not so different anywhere in the world!!!
Hope they get them out, but I am not optimistic.
How do the Russian Service chiefs know there was a collision - can the subs send radio underwater? Or is it 'cover your **** ' time at the ministry.
I'm speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if this crisis has more to do with a cash-strapped Russian Navy trying to operate 21st Century equipment with 18th century funding & logistics. Life is not so different anywhere in the world!!!
Hope they get them out, but I am not optimistic.
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I very much doubt there was a collision - if so where is the sub they hit???
I think the collision story is Russian government disinformation in an attempt to save red faces.
The main reason they are not asking for help is national security but I'm sure that national pride is another factor.
I wonder if they are up to something with that sub - apparently half the men on board are officers....surely that is not routine?
Whatever the reasons if they let the crew die when they could so easily ask for assistance it will be an absolute disgrace.
I think the collision story is Russian government disinformation in an attempt to save red faces.
The main reason they are not asking for help is national security but I'm sure that national pride is another factor.
I wonder if they are up to something with that sub - apparently half the men on board are officers....surely that is not routine?
Whatever the reasons if they let the crew die when they could so easily ask for assistance it will be an absolute disgrace.
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Hideous business - shame that it was relegated to this forum - I hadn't even noticed it existed before. This story is certainly news, and probably a lot of it is rumour too. Subs have a lot in common with planes too.
I throroughly recommend a book called by "Blind Man's Bluff" - by 3 different authors - currently in print. It describes much of WW2 and Cold War sub operations, from both sides points of view - gripping stuff.
JJM
I throroughly recommend a book called by "Blind Man's Bluff" - by 3 different authors - currently in print. It describes much of WW2 and Cold War sub operations, from both sides points of view - gripping stuff.
JJM
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There is an interesting article on what they are going through on the Los Angeles Times website. I'm afraid they're already dead and the Russians just don't want to say it yet. At least they would have probably died in their sleep. http://www.latimes.com/news/asection...000076602.html
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I'm with you JJM, it's a shame it wasn't kept in R+N, I would say it's of interest to a lot of people. There are indeed similarities betweeen aircraft and subs, both being long steel tubes, both have to deal with pressure factors on their hulls and both can climb and descend and of course both need well able and highly skilled crew. But I suppose the moderators would argue that if they let this non-aviation topic on Rumours and News tne that would open the floodgates for all kinds of non-aviation news, so I guess that's fair enough.
Wedge is right, if these men perish because the Russians won't accept outside help, then it is an absoulute disgrace and a crime as such. and please don't anybody start warbling on about national security and "these things happen, that's the Military" these are human beings and deserve the same rights as you and I. The British have their rescue Sub the LR5 standing by at Glsagow airport right now, it's state of the art and I would be very confident of it doing the job. It would attach itself to the escape hatches and ferry the men to the surface. I understand that the communication with the sub consists of the men banging on the hull with hammers, so they don't even know whats going on at the surface, frightening.
I also raised an eyebrow ehen I heard that out of the 100+ crew there were 48 officers.
Come on Russia, save your men.
[This message has been edited by OneWorld22 (edited 15 August 2000).]
Wedge is right, if these men perish because the Russians won't accept outside help, then it is an absoulute disgrace and a crime as such. and please don't anybody start warbling on about national security and "these things happen, that's the Military" these are human beings and deserve the same rights as you and I. The British have their rescue Sub the LR5 standing by at Glsagow airport right now, it's state of the art and I would be very confident of it doing the job. It would attach itself to the escape hatches and ferry the men to the surface. I understand that the communication with the sub consists of the men banging on the hull with hammers, so they don't even know whats going on at the surface, frightening.
I also raised an eyebrow ehen I heard that out of the 100+ crew there were 48 officers.
Come on Russia, save your men.
[This message has been edited by OneWorld22 (edited 15 August 2000).]
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I'm 100% with all the thoughts appearing here, all the more gruesome in that we have to, figuratively speaking, sit here and watch it happen.
The oxygen hose through the hull's not really an option. Sub Hulls are spectacularly strong when intact. Start putting the required energy into creating a whole and you could cause a catastrophic failure.
They have escape systems on board, but one would guess that if they could use them, then they would have done so by now.
It might not have taken much to drag this thing to the bottom, and remember that the 'massive damage' reportedly in the nose/bow area could have been the result of of impact with the bottom.
On the manning question, the specialised nature of these vessels mean they are usually SNCO/Officer heavy, but I can't talk numbers.
I have no insight into what caused it, but I think I have a fair grasp of the enormity of the task of getting them out. To do that you need a hole. If you have a hole, then there's an entire ocean's worth of water wanting to go in.
Like the rest of you, I've got everything crossed for them.
The oxygen hose through the hull's not really an option. Sub Hulls are spectacularly strong when intact. Start putting the required energy into creating a whole and you could cause a catastrophic failure.
They have escape systems on board, but one would guess that if they could use them, then they would have done so by now.
It might not have taken much to drag this thing to the bottom, and remember that the 'massive damage' reportedly in the nose/bow area could have been the result of of impact with the bottom.
On the manning question, the specialised nature of these vessels mean they are usually SNCO/Officer heavy, but I can't talk numbers.
I have no insight into what caused it, but I think I have a fair grasp of the enormity of the task of getting them out. To do that you need a hole. If you have a hole, then there's an entire ocean's worth of water wanting to go in.
Like the rest of you, I've got everything crossed for them.
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Manning tends to be top heavy because the sailors are conscripts who are trained to a very basic level. Hence the need for Officers / SNCOs who tend to do more jobs than would be the norm on a western boat.
One report from the media suggests that the Russians have refused offers of help from the West so far.
Thoughts to the crew and any submariners - I couldn't do it!
One report from the media suggests that the Russians have refused offers of help from the West so far.
Thoughts to the crew and any submariners - I couldn't do it!
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This morning a large Antonov (124, I guess)
sits at Prestwick full of submarine rescue kit (a submersible capable of such a rescue,
according to Radio 5), awaiting a formal request from the Russians to NATO to assist.
Apparently, upon receipt of such request it
will depart for Trondheim asap.
Let's hope these poor souls will be given a
chance.
sits at Prestwick full of submarine rescue kit (a submersible capable of such a rescue,
according to Radio 5), awaiting a formal request from the Russians to NATO to assist.
Apparently, upon receipt of such request it
will depart for Trondheim asap.
Let's hope these poor souls will be given a
chance.