Spotters released on bail
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Spotters released on bail
Just seen on Sky that the spotters in Greece have (are being) released on unconditional bail, set at 5million Drachma (9000 pounds).
The charges have also been reduced from spying to "accessing military secrets" which carries lesser punishments (don't know what kind though).
They will be going home as soon as the bail money is posted and they can expect to wait about 12 months for the trial.
The charges have also been reduced from spying to "accessing military secrets" which carries lesser punishments (don't know what kind though).
They will be going home as soon as the bail money is posted and they can expect to wait about 12 months for the trial.
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The lesser charge could carry a five year sentence, but is unlikely to hold water - the Order of Battle for the Greek military being in the public domain as it is.
I for one am relieved that their ordeal is at least partly over, and the bail shouldn't be a problem to the Daily Mail and Stelios - should it?
I for one am relieved that their ordeal is at least partly over, and the bail shouldn't be a problem to the Daily Mail and Stelios - should it?
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Bail ? Hah ! Ransom more like it, or a fine if you prefer. The spotters would be stupid to go back and stand trial on what all except the Greeks recognize as a trumped-up charge. Of course some would say they are indeed stupid already, but 6 weeks in gaol is excessive for that. Did I mention it was 6 weeks without being charged ?
HM Govt. should provide the money simply for not having had the ba||s to get it sorted a long time ago. Just withhold the amount from your EU contribution - £100k less for them to p|ss away on god-knows-what.
Yes I know, the Greek Govt is not able to influence their judiciary (yeah, right). The Greek military sure does though, and I suppose it's understandable to be afraid of them. After all if they don't like the way the country is governed, they just stage a coup.
Perhaps habeas corpus is confusing because it's Latin ?
HM Govt. should provide the money simply for not having had the ba||s to get it sorted a long time ago. Just withhold the amount from your EU contribution - £100k less for them to p|ss away on god-knows-what.
Yes I know, the Greek Govt is not able to influence their judiciary (yeah, right). The Greek military sure does though, and I suppose it's understandable to be afraid of them. After all if they don't like the way the country is governed, they just stage a coup.
Perhaps habeas corpus is confusing because it's Latin ?
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I noticed a government minister (non U.K.)quoted in the press, describing plane spotting as "an Arcane hobby" ...... so I looked it up and found that Arcane means ......
known or understood by only a few ...
mysterious knowledge ....
secret .....
hidden ....
phew !!!
known or understood by only a few ...
mysterious knowledge ....
secret .....
hidden ....
phew !!!
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I think the British Foreign Office through the Embassy in Athens should have had the guts to restore our dignity, by going and paying the bail in cash.
How the hell did Greece get in to the EU anyway? They block and veto everything they can. Makes themfeel important I suppose, from not just being another Balkan breed, which they are.
How the hell did Greece get in to the EU anyway? They block and veto everything they can. Makes themfeel important I suppose, from not just being another Balkan breed, which they are.
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Funny to hear the Greeks described as the guys who block and veto everything in the EU. I thought that was us????
Yes stupid charges and all but stupid spotters for getting themselves into the situation in the first place. Its not as if they weren't warned.
Yes stupid charges and all but stupid spotters for getting themselves into the situation in the first place. Its not as if they weren't warned.
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Remember we've only heard the Greek version so far.....heard last night from a friend of the accused that the warnings were not quite as strict as they would have us believe - the full story, when it comes out, should make interesting reading. I had an e-mail from the Greek embassy saying that prison conditions were good, and we all know that ain't so.
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Just spoke with the wife of one of the Brits....the Dutch government put up the cash and their two left yesterday; kinda makes you proud to be British 
At least Stelios is reserving twelve seats on tomorrow's evening flight out of Athens for free....good on yer mate!!
easyJet.....the spotter's favourite airline
At least Stelios is reserving twelve seats on tomorrow's evening flight out of Athens for free....good on yer mate!!easyJet.....the spotter's favourite airline
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Can anyone give me a logical reason why the British government should have put up the bail money? I for one would have been VERY upset to see my taxes go to that particular cause! (I suspect the money will come from the newspapers anyway).
I applaud Stelios' gesture, but bail money coming out of public funds? No way. Many people only have limited sympathy for the spotters - I am sorry if they have been kept in poor conditions in prison, for example, but you can't go to other countries and break their law and expect to be let off because you're a foreigner. As many people pointed out on the previous thread - the spotters need to take responsibility for their actions.
I applaud Stelios' gesture, but bail money coming out of public funds? No way. Many people only have limited sympathy for the spotters - I am sorry if they have been kept in poor conditions in prison, for example, but you can't go to other countries and break their law and expect to be let off because you're a foreigner. As many people pointed out on the previous thread - the spotters need to take responsibility for their actions.
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Nah.....I wouldn't have expected the British Government to do ANYTHING at this stage; after all, with the notable exception of the British Consul and MEP Richard Howitt, they've done nothing noticeable about this case except keep an eye on developments - and make a few lily-livered statements. As we speak, the first ones are out of prison, and to any ppruners who lent their support - a big THANK YOU. To anyone who stayed out of it - at least you were neutral. And to anyone who said that they should all have been locked up indefinitely and face the full wrath of the Greek judiciary - you're lucky that this is a virtual forum.......
Oh come on NOPAX.
They broke the law, plain and simple. I don't think it matters a toss whether the warnings were not as strict as they should have been. I do agree however that the punishments dished out so far are way out of order.
I can understand where you are coming from, you appear to be much closer to 'the action' than the rest of us, but from what I've read both here on PPRuNe and other sources, Paul Coppin is not the innocent he is being portrayed as. You cannot go abroad, totally disregard the laws of the county and say, when caught, I'm only pursuing my hobby.
I have never been on one of his tours but I know people who have and it doesn't matter where they go, PC and a few of his Generals have to get 'one more number'.
I sincerley hope they get home safe and have a wonderful Christmas with their families.
They broke the law, plain and simple. I don't think it matters a toss whether the warnings were not as strict as they should have been. I do agree however that the punishments dished out so far are way out of order.
I can understand where you are coming from, you appear to be much closer to 'the action' than the rest of us, but from what I've read both here on PPRuNe and other sources, Paul Coppin is not the innocent he is being portrayed as. You cannot go abroad, totally disregard the laws of the county and say, when caught, I'm only pursuing my hobby.
I have never been on one of his tours but I know people who have and it doesn't matter where they go, PC and a few of his Generals have to get 'one more number'.
I sincerley hope they get home safe and have a wonderful Christmas with their families.
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Well, at least we agree on most things....check my posting carefully - I said those who thought they ALL should have the book thrown at them, etc, etc. Some of these people had not been on a Touchdown Tour before and went like lambs; and you know how many recipes the Greeks have for lamb.....
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Ladies and Gents
Can we sort this out once and for all-I get a bit fed up reading the " they broke the law".
I myself broke the law doing 71mph on the motorway.
The problem has been the punishment set out by the little tin pot dictators.
What a complete and utter farce, the icing on the cake being Judges going on strike, and lawyers unable to get to court because of a transport strike.
Can I remind everyone (esp Turkish Air Force), for details of intelligence on Greek Air Force, including numbers and types, please read thread in Jet Blast on Jeremy Clarkson
Can we sort this out once and for all-I get a bit fed up reading the " they broke the law".
I myself broke the law doing 71mph on the motorway.
The problem has been the punishment set out by the little tin pot dictators.
What a complete and utter farce, the icing on the cake being Judges going on strike, and lawyers unable to get to court because of a transport strike.
Can I remind everyone (esp Turkish Air Force), for details of intelligence on Greek Air Force, including numbers and types, please read thread in Jet Blast on Jeremy Clarkson
mach 78
If you get caught doing 1mph over the limit you will have no problems accepting your punishment then will you?
You totally missed my point though. It's one thing knowing what the Greeks have in their inventory, it's an entirely different matter when you turn up at the base, 'alledgedly' take the serials and photos of said inventory, knowing you have been told this is illegal beforehand.
If you get caught doing 1mph over the limit you will have no problems accepting your punishment then will you?
You totally missed my point though. It's one thing knowing what the Greeks have in their inventory, it's an entirely different matter when you turn up at the base, 'alledgedly' take the serials and photos of said inventory, knowing you have been told this is illegal beforehand.
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MARE - perhaps you are trying to tell me that present- day Greeks are related in some way to learned and civilized ancient Greek Nation.
I think not. The behaviour of the Greek beaurocracy in the past month or so would
relate them more to the cess-pit of the Balkans.
I think not. The behaviour of the Greek beaurocracy in the past month or so would
relate them more to the cess-pit of the Balkans.
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Evanelpus
And my point went completely over your head.
As you obviously don't realise, you are NOT prosecuted by travelling at 71mph, although it IS an offence.
The question of accepting "punishment" as you put it, simply does not arise.
As most law officers realise,one of the most powerful tools they have is that of discretion, which can add credibility to the legal process when used sensibly.
In this particular case there was no discretion whatsoever,- although there is hope for the future.
Perhaps it's too much of a jump for you to draw any inference from this with the experience of the spotters.
Let me spell it out for you-you don't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
[ 15 December 2001: Message edited by: mach78 ]
And my point went completely over your head.
As you obviously don't realise, you are NOT prosecuted by travelling at 71mph, although it IS an offence.
The question of accepting "punishment" as you put it, simply does not arise.
As most law officers realise,one of the most powerful tools they have is that of discretion, which can add credibility to the legal process when used sensibly.
In this particular case there was no discretion whatsoever,- although there is hope for the future.
Perhaps it's too much of a jump for you to draw any inference from this with the experience of the spotters.
Let me spell it out for you-you don't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
[ 15 December 2001: Message edited by: mach78 ]
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I am not posting my personal opinion, for obvious reasons :-) I'll just quote the letter, that I read in a newspaper.
By the way, we do have a strong relation with the ancient Hellenes my friend, like it or not
But that's a completely another issue, irrelevant in this case!
Enjoy ...
"
Paying the penalty
IN REPLY to Mr Harley's ridiculous letter (November 30) about the British plane spotters held in Greece: I am British, live in the UK and I am not appalled by the action of the Greek authorities. The plane spotters broke the rules, now they must pay the penalty. I have visited Greek airfields on a number of occasions.
Signs are clearly posted stating "NO PHOTOGRAPHY" in Greek and English. Mr Harley thinks that these can be ignored because the information is available on the internet. He also thinks that as RAF airfields allow some photography, the same rules should apply in Greece. This is nonsense.
It is true that there is a lot of information on the internet. So what? The inside of Buckingham Palace is on the internet. Does this mean we can all break in to photograph it?
I am sure that anyone attempting to take photographs in a restricted zone on a British base would almost certainly be arrested. Imagine if someone went onto an American airfield that states "No Unauthorised personnel beyond this point" and argued with USAF Security that "It's OK, I'm British".
When I am in Greece and I see a road speed limit that says 60 km/h, I would need to be pretty stupid to say "But in Britain its 120km/h so I will go faster". This is exactly what Mr Harley is suggesting.
As a Briton, I am embarrassed at these plane-spotting idiots trying to be clever. They are no better than the drunken tourists who earn Britain a bad reputation across the world. I am sure that the Greek authorities will eventually get tired of having to feed these morons and release them, but I hope that they are banned from Greece for life.
Rob Allwright
London
"
By the way, we do have a strong relation with the ancient Hellenes my friend, like it or not
But that's a completely another issue, irrelevant in this case!
Enjoy ...
"
Paying the penalty
IN REPLY to Mr Harley's ridiculous letter (November 30) about the British plane spotters held in Greece: I am British, live in the UK and I am not appalled by the action of the Greek authorities. The plane spotters broke the rules, now they must pay the penalty. I have visited Greek airfields on a number of occasions.
Signs are clearly posted stating "NO PHOTOGRAPHY" in Greek and English. Mr Harley thinks that these can be ignored because the information is available on the internet. He also thinks that as RAF airfields allow some photography, the same rules should apply in Greece. This is nonsense.
It is true that there is a lot of information on the internet. So what? The inside of Buckingham Palace is on the internet. Does this mean we can all break in to photograph it?
I am sure that anyone attempting to take photographs in a restricted zone on a British base would almost certainly be arrested. Imagine if someone went onto an American airfield that states "No Unauthorised personnel beyond this point" and argued with USAF Security that "It's OK, I'm British".
When I am in Greece and I see a road speed limit that says 60 km/h, I would need to be pretty stupid to say "But in Britain its 120km/h so I will go faster". This is exactly what Mr Harley is suggesting.
As a Briton, I am embarrassed at these plane-spotting idiots trying to be clever. They are no better than the drunken tourists who earn Britain a bad reputation across the world. I am sure that the Greek authorities will eventually get tired of having to feed these morons and release them, but I hope that they are banned from Greece for life.
Rob Allwright
London
"