Vietnam Airlines
 

Hi!

I was trying to find some informations about Vietnam Airlines but I was unable to find any recent posts. All that I have found are posts old 1,5 or 2 years.

I am especially interested in PARC contract. I contacted them and they gave me some informations but I would like to know few more things from inside if possible.

Is the salary fixed or does it change depending on some circumstances? And is it same when on duty and when off duty?

Are there some target block hours per month?

Thank you for your answers

CAK,

Your pay is fixed, it includes accommodation, transportation and per diem allowance.

There are no fixed hours and there are no overtime fees. When I worked there I was flying average of 90 hours per month and the pay was fixed.

Hope this helps.

:)

The hours flown are actually less of an issue than the constant changes to your roster. The expats are always subject to being plugged into flights that the locals don't want to do. This includes for major emergencies such as beer call and pick up volleyball games.

Because of the high expat turnover, the company has made noises about improving the situation. We shall see.

Thanks for answers!

And what about transportation, do people take taxis?

@the grove: are you still working there?

Which contract is better? Direct Personnel or Rishworth? Pros/cons?

I just finished with Direct Personnel. They were very nice during the contract duration, they did not disappear when I had any questions. The money came on time, and I found out after an operation, that my insurance paid this. :-)

I did not get my final salary yet, but it is only due at the end of the month.

DPI is a lot smaller than Parc or Rishworth, but I think, they are a lot more personal. All contracts pay the same, the holidays are the same.

Based on my experience with DPI, I could recommend them.

Tamas

When DPI first arrived on scene, they were encouraged by VNA management to cut all the benefits that Parc and RAL were providing, like paid health insurance and equal pay.

If you get anything out of this thread, it's that the contract is NOT necessarily the same at all three contract agencies, at least it has never been that way in the past.

My advice is to actually make contact with some pilots if possible, you will then get the big picture, check things like:

1. Health Insurance coverages, paid by the agency or the pilot?

2. Training pay, what activates getting off training pay, when you are cleared to the line, or is it a fixed time period?

3. They started some crap where you only get 90% pay the first year! is that still going on?

4. What about training bonds, supplied by the agency, or pilot?

5. Tax paid salary, is it in the contract?

6. Does 100% of your salary (on the contract) end up in your account! or do they charge you huge fees every month for wire transfers?

7. Does the agency have a representative in Vietnam that you can call?

I recommend that you do your homework, all agencies are not the same!

Indeed I saw the contract terms for Storm Mcginley and they are not the
same as what others have quoted

I don't work for Vietnam Airlines, but I live in Ho Chi Minh City, and can answer your question about taxis.

Yes, almost all expats take taxis, and they are the safest form of transport available, as most people are on scooters. Taxis are cheap. From the airport to downtown will cost about 120000 dong, less than $6 USD

You can also take xe om, a scooter taxi. These can be fun, but I recommend getting to know the guy first, pick an older gentleman as they ride slower and more carefully, and not to use any xe om by the airport as they are overpriced.

You should also look into VietJet. It's a private company and I hear the pay is much better. They are also growing at a faster rate than Vietnam Airlines, fly A320s and employ lots of E. European pilots.

Is it true the 500 hr requirement for Capt's been waived. I heard some 321 capt got 330 with no time on 330.

Any info for the 330. I'll be transitioning soon from the 320 to the 330 and would like to know any info regarding routes, overnights, monthly hours, etc etc.

MDT

• Months1-7 of paid Service US$7,103 is payable.
• Months8-12 of paid Service the rate of US$9,690 is payable.
• Months13-36 of paid Service the rate of US$10,800is payable.

AllamountsaboveinclusiveofBasicPayment,MonthlyAccommodationAllowanceandMonthlyPerDiems.


This is for DEC 320 I was just sent by DP.What happened at VNA their pay use to be much better.A previous post said apt. provided, not on the terms I was sent.I know Vietnam is cheap place to live but for a carrier that size that pay is pretty low.

Roti all I know is I was told certain ex VNA not Local crew got DEC back on 330 with possibly no hrs on type just rated on 330 over 321 current VNA guys.
Not sure if that's now the norm as a lot leaving VNA must be making this sort of thing easier.

Pay
 

Intruder,

You are quite correct, the salary in not competitive. But it gets worse, due to a shortage of crew, you can expect 85-100hrs per month, but the salary quoted provides for no over time. The master contract is supposed to be for 80hrs but when you work 100hrs, you get nothing additional. With orders of 350s & 787s starting to arrive in early 2015, you can expect more local crew transitioning to the wide bodies exacerbating the narrow bus crew shortage = more flying beyond 80hrs for free.
Oh and contrary to ideas that Vietnam is cheap (something's are!), prices are moving up and with the current salary having remained constant for approx 7yrs, factoring in inflation it's very basic. If you have kids, you can forget about. Schooling on avg will run you USD $15K per child per year. Also expect your landlord to hit you with an annual 10% increase in rent.

What about this 9000USD Security bond for new DEC I am told about.
Its recovered over the first 3 paychecks apparently but correct me if I got that wrong.

Vietnam Airlines, STAY AWAY !!!
 

Hi guys, :ugh:

Stay away from VNA ! They suddenly decided to change the pick policy for expats pilots, was free at Sheraton, all expats living around there, and only 25 mins straight to the airport; now the pilots'll have to pay their own transportation to VNA headquarters (919) in the middle of no where in Hanoi, around 20-25 mins trip, wait there then take the crew bus to the airport...again 25 mins ! That means you have to leave your home around 2h30 before the flight, add 1h after the flight, time included in the rest time !

So double time to go to the airport, personal cost around 300-500 US$,so more duty time, less money, less rest at home, flying more as many pilots left, life getting expensive...No salary increase since many years.

Vietjet is an option for A320 pilots...better salary, more days off, and free pick up !

Mach84
 

Can you confirm what flyhighfast has said..ouch:mad:

To flyhighfast

Been like that ever since in SGN, so "same, same but different", guys can live close to 919 Hanoi like some do in SGN, if they want...Ok don't all attack at once. Guys were warned. They, VNA imposed a pay cut for 6 months in 2009 or 2010.
All said, the local guys used to have to do what you are suggesting will now be required for expats... Agree the arbitrary nature if/when enacted is annoying. But other than Emirates, not sure this is commonplace perk and there was certainly never a crew bus at the Sheraton D1 HCMC..

It is true that there is no transportation in SGN but in SGN you have many, many more choices regarding accomodation and not to mention that everything is cheaper in SGN. Also, try to find a taxi in HAN at 4am or after midnight. Almost impossible.
And regarding salary in Vietjet, it s not true. You have to fly at least around 90 hours to get same salary as in VNA and don't forget that you receive only base pay when you are off duty for two weeks. Also, you have to pay for your ticket back home.

still see the VNA crew bus coming to the sheraton, most of VNA ex-pats are living around the sheraton. It would not make any sense to go to 919 at hanoi as the crew bus is passing by the sheraton on the way to the airport. some guys are picked up in front of the sofitel which is also on the way - this applies for cabin crew too.
will investigate and keep you updated.

Thanks Mach84…

Appreciate the updates!!

Kap

Investigated! & results say...
 

Dear Crews,

We received the following advice about the transport arrangements in Hanoi from VNA late on Friday:

"Effective from 0h00’ on 15th March 2015, the pick up for expat pilots at HAN will be changed as follows:
- For pilots are NOT base in HAN: pilots shall be picked up at Hotel by Crew bus 2h15’ prior the departure time with the following route: Hotel-Flight Crew Division 919-Noibai Airport-FCD919-Hotel

- For HAN base pilots:

- Pilots are requested to arrange themselves to FCD919 office at 121 Nguyen Son-Long Bien district

- Pilots shall be picked up 1h40’ prior the departure time by Crew bus with the following route: FCD 919-Noibai Airport-FCD919"


We understand that this will be disappointing news for HAN based crews, in particular. etc etc etc....

talked to one of my friends here, got the same info. routing of the crew bus will change, using a new road to the airport and for that reason not pass the sofitel and sheraton any more.

reply to Dihedral1
 

:ugh: :=

In HCMC, it s easy to find a housing not far from 919, many apartments around (5-10 mins), it is in the city, and 919 is close to the airport (3 mins), so you can leave your home 1h30 before the flight,even less.
In Hanoi, near 919, you can find only Vietnamese style housing, nothing for expats, no western shops, no expat school , no clinic....NOTHING !!! So you can't live there!! Unless you are Vietnamese !
The West lake (around Sheraton) is the most convenient place to live for expats, with schools and western shops...
Here in Hanoi, until now the free pick up at Sheraton was 1h50 before the flight, and now, with the trip to go to 919, wait the crew bus there , and then go to the airport, you will have to leave your home around 2h30 mins before the flight,cause you have to cross a narrow ****ty bridge always packed with motorbikes and cars, and you will need more than 1h to get back home after the flight.

So if you don't like easy life come here...
Or Dehedral1, maybe you can ask to move to Hanoi if you like it, and to compare...

I'm going to guess that this may not last long, although I'm not a VN pilot so it is just a guess.

If someone gets called for a trip in which you need to leave your home in the wee hours of the morning to get to "919" or Noi Bai, as I've heard the taxi's are few and far between at that hour. ((Btw… what exactly is "919"?))

If enough guys have issues each and every day getting taxi's to 919 or HAN, flights will then be delayed and would not the company possibly rethink this policy? The guys I've met either at the hotel (which is where my airline lays over also) or within a km or two of the hotel would seem to be most affected.

I see a possible operational issue with this…..

Kap

flyhighfast
 

Arh! I didn't take away your free bus dude...
Was offered Hanoi, refused, for the same reasons, you mentioned.
Anyway.. hope you get an amicable resolution.

Dehadral1
 

Confirmation from agencies, expats pilots in Hanoi have now to go for 25 mins , by Taxi if they can find one, or motorbikes, good luck, due to crazy vietnamese drivers !! or horse or whatever, then wait for crew bus, then 25 mins trip again to the airport...
Who still wants to come to Vietnam Airlines, The"flag carrier" .

ENJOY...Better go to VietJet like many Vietnam Airlines Vietnamese Pilots want to do, but Vietnamese Govt block them...

Vietnam A330 Hiring on Hold
 

Hello Folks,

I just got the word that Vietnam Airlines has placed the A330 hiring on hold. I am glad i didn't go to interview..!

Be safe,

On Final

Hanoi
 

Any word from the agencies regarding the shuttle? Are they doing something about it or will they just leave it like that? :confused:

Nailed by false promises
 

Oke my first post on PPrune. I swore to myself to never do this, but I guess I failed. Even had to alter my name, what I am about to write.

After I left my previous job, I thought I m gonna go to Vietnam for new adventure. To be honest so far, I am bit disappointed. (I am saying this to be politically correct).

Why you want go to VNA?

The only reasons so far I can think is: you are out of a job or you don't like China. I have to say I enjoy flying with the pilots at VNA.
Vietnam is amazingly beautiful country and personally I like the Vietnamese people.
Rotation schedule.
If you want to build time, in three years you have probably close to 3000 hours on type.

Why you don't want go to VNA?

They still think like communists, you should work hard and for free.
Low salaries, and Vietnam gets more expensive. There are better contracts on the market.
The organization is a mess. They don't think ahead, and act when it's too late.
New transport pick up rules, which is gonna be a complete disaster.
I m very disappointed with the agencies, they collect the money and after that they are pretty useless. Sorry we hope it's not too much inconvenience for you.:ugh: False advertisement for VNA???
VNA is messing with pilots salaries. Especially when receiving the first month payment.
You work your :mad: off, 90 hours a month. If locals don't want to fly, they call the expats. This has a bit of a tendency to be treated like slaves.
Vietjet is offering 165K according one of their agencies. I read the post, but I don't know the specifics of that Contract. All the locals want to go to Vietjet.
For upgrade/transition you have to pay, I heard around 25K for captain upgrade and around 60/70K for A350 type. You don't get paid during training and sign a bond for X years.

If you have a stable job and you want to change. Think twice..... The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Their are way better jobs out there, than this one.

They will leave it like that. They don't care because they receive their provision whether people have transportation or not, so I think that they haven't made to many efforts to change it

From the size of the last few intakes of newbies, people are not getting the message..Mack..
As application numbers swell, the arrogance creeps in, hence no pay for first 28 days, reduced salary for several months to almost a year (depending on agency), the removal of agreed up transportation in Hanoi, blocks ingeniously built over 2 months to extract the max amount of flying, but just below the 160hrs threshold for o/t (work it out guys, if on 6/2 weeks, your doing 100hrs in 1st month and 59.8hrs in 2nd month, which consist of 2 weeks, the other 2 being vacation) and no increase in salary since 2008.
So to answer the question, no things won't improve, as new applicants reinforce, the mindset, that it is a good contract in the mind of the Mgnt.
All it suggests to me is things must be pretty grim, in the pilot contract world, when with record aircraft orders, a supposed global shortage of pilots and what seems like record profits for pretty much every airline this year (financial year 2014), this is the best on offer at VN. :D
Happy Landings..

No pay rise since 2007.

Inflation in the interim has been running over 15% average since.
The overtime is unattainable on a standard contract; so fixed pay.
Duty time to flight time ratio has got to be an industry high with an outrageous amount of positioning, long turnarounds, delays etc.

Vietnam's northern neighbour is offering over double the salary for 6/3 AND 6/2 patterns. Even at 4/4 ratio they pay far more than VNA.
VietJetAir is offering locals expat contracts. An exodus was halted by government order. VNA are facing an imminent crisis of experienced crews.

All with a management that is almost equal parts oblivious, arrogant, impotent and indifferent.

This commute change is just a small reflection of that.
The short version of what's happening in Hanoi is this: an extra hour at work every day unpaid, and not part of duty. This arrangement is well over a decade old so it was/is a reasonable assertion by pilots when searching for accommodation to rely on the hotel pickup.

Nobody would have thought that when the new road opened and commute became shorter that they would in fact have to leave home far earlier. (Gia Lam is the wrong direction and wrong area - also unlivable for most expats)

There was an uproar from pilots. Ignored. The agencies then had a go. Ignored.
VNA consider the matter closed. 1hr extra at work a day. Deal with it they all say...

Work at VNA
 

Since the day I arrived, it got worse at VNA. I was hoping for a good life together with my work in Nam. I guess I was wrong. Also the agencies sell this as the best job on the planet.The amount of paperwork you have to go through makes it hard to live here. (Even to apply, takes weeks to get all the paperwork sorted and when you arrive, they want more copies of everything which they already have:ugh::ugh::ugh:) Not to forget the upcoming new transport policy. People leaving or want to leave is tremendous. I think it's very sad. If the management took their head out of their :mad: it would be a fun place to live and work, I think.

Interesting stuff all this as it corroborates what I heard in Cambodia Angkor and friends in VNA now. I quit Angkor for similar reason's, Contract not properly honored, Crap Roster 1 week at a time with constant argument due to the clown unable to follow his own OM FDTL's, Management rarely responded to the few of us that they hired just bury the arrogant head in the sand and hope it goes away etc etc. Anyway its not about them but What I like is I met a VNA TRE in BKK who said I should Join VNA I politely told him I had other Plan's thanks. No need to mince words mah,

Woah... Been a few years since I was there, seems to have got worse and worse. I joined in a batch of 6 guys, all of us left within 18 months, the class ahead of us with 11 guys have all left but one I heard however someone did say he's been driven to alcoholism. Out of 16 of the guys I knew, I can't count on two hands the number that "bunked out" overnight.

Jeez. It's almost disheartening to read these posts....!

With going on there???

Kap

KapitanL,
I posted this on another thread "If you are A320 I think alot of other option's around just my 10 pennies".

Chai Ja can you guess who the TRE was?

BTW I saw this recently, I have left out the name at the bottom.

Dear All Pilots!
Accroding From Cheft Pilot of Flight Crew Division, VNA has a plan to move some of A321Expat Pilots first Officers to B777, B 787 And A330 also .
A321Expat Pilots firstofficers who would like to move to B777, B787 and A330, please register your name in the A321 Before 15 of March.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Best reagrds

....uuuum, they are still communists yeah? ( or have I missed something big?)
If you can't vote them out, they are not going to look out for you, it's human nature. That's the reason communism doesn't work.....human nature.

Thanks Kwayyai

I'm a Boeing guy so keen on the 777/787 news! But always enjoy reading everything here on the thread.

Thanks again!!

Kap

787response to Kap
 

Hey Kap,

Just so you realize what your dealing with..
Ex-pat FOs who have been asked to urgently respond by March 15 (tomorrow), to register their interest in transitioning to 787/777/330, are unable to get answers yet on how much the 787 programme will cost, what the upgrade route will be, expected training starts..
Basically, they have been told, not to worry about the details, just look at the shinny new toy...great way to make career decisions. Is it indicative of overall business planning? Why must the expats respond within a week, didn't they order these planes in 2007, do they not know the manning requirements, do they not yet, with less than 2 months before the first of 5 787 arrive have a cadre of pilots identified? Perhaps this is why the the 350 has been pushed 2 months. This is just speculation on the pilot side, but what of Maintainence, Cabin Crew etc etc...
A few on this forum, have suggested, last minute planning is SOP. Well for the expat FOs, without question that is the case...:D