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Air India flight operated by cabin crew whilst pilots sleep in J class.
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To silly to be true. :p
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How long before someone praises them because they got back to their seats in time and "no-one was hurt"?
As for "revert to you" only a lawyer could use a term like that, anybody else would reply in correct English :) |
Incredible. How interesting to know that anyone can learn to operate a sophisticated passenger aircraft in 'a few minutes'.
Captain Soni did not leave the cockpit immediately; instead, he spent a few minutes teaching the two stewardesses how to operate the aircraft. Standard Indian subcontinent English. |
How long before AI blame Airbus for making it too easy to turn off the Autopilot?
Indian companies, especially those run by the government are always keen to make sure the buck does not stop with them. They blamed Boeing for the 772LR not fitting their route structure and loosing them money, despite the fact THEY ordered it then promptly had them sit around doing nothing but gather dust 80% of the time. |
"We will revert to you on receiving their reply."
Standard Indian subcontinent English. It's used in SA as well, but that still doesn't make it the correct use :) |
I cannot believe this actually happened.
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Well Captain Soni could have a new career after, hopefully, his services are no longer required at Air India.
He could set up a fast track learn to fly a large commercial jet in minutes business. Think how much you could save on all those expensive courses before applying to large International airlines! |
Although incredible absurdities are commonplece on the fine sub-continent, I do find it a bit hard to fanthom that anyone with sufficient aviation knowlede to get that thing up in the air in the first place would actually display such level of recklessness. I would treat the story with a pich of salt until confirmed by some credible source.
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An Aeroflot Airbus commander let his teenage children do exactly the same thing, resulting in a crash, about 15 years ago I think.
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An Aeroflot Airbus commander let his teenage children do exactly the same thing, resulting in a crash, about 15 years ago I think. |
Anyone who has ever been to India should not be in the least bit surprised by this story. I'm not. Sadly...
:ugh: |
Yeah the Aeroflot crash was due to the captain not really paying attention to what his son was doing to the flight controls, a constant force on control yoke disengaged the autopilot.
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Bloody hell, a disengaged autopilot in the cruise? No wonder they couldn't recover the aircraft from that state...
Another great example of airmanship! Bravo to the Russians as well as the Indians! :{ |
The Aeroflot accident was a bit more complicated , :
With the autopilot active, Kudrinsky, against regulations, let [his kids[ sit at the controls. First his daughter Yana took the pilot's left front seat. Kudrinsky adjusted the autopilot's heading to give her the impression that she was turning the plane, though she actually had no control of the aircraft. Next his son, Eldar, took the pilot's seat. Unlike his sister, Eldar applied enough force to the control column to contradict the autopilot for 30 seconds. This caused the flight computer to switch the plane's ailerons to manual control while maintaining control over the other flight systems. The plane did not audibly signal a warning that this had occurred, although an indicator light did come on. It apparently went unnoticed by the pilots, who had previously flown Russian-designed planes which had audible warning signals with partial A/P disconnect. . The first to notice a problem was Eldar, who observed that the plane was banking right. Shortly after, the flight path indicator changed to show the new flight path of the aircraft as it turned. Since the turn was continuous, the resulting predicted flight path drawn on screen was a 180 degree turn. This indication is similar to the indications shown when in a holding pattern, This confused the pilots for nine seconds. During this confusion, the plane banked past a 45-degree angle . This increased the g-force on the pilots and crew, making it impossible for them to regain control. After the plane banked to 90 degrees, the remaining functions of the autopilot tried to correct its plummeting altitude by putting the plane in an almost vertical ascent, nearly stalling the plane. The co-pilot and Eldar managed to get the plane into a nosedive, which reduced the g-force they were experiencing and enabled the captain to take the controls. Though he and his co-pilot did regain control, their altitude by then was too low to recover, and the plane crashed at high vertical speed, estimated at 70 m/s (14,000 ft/min). All aboard were killed. The aircraft crashed gear up, and all passengers had been prepared for an emergency, as they were strapped into their seats. No distress calls were made prior to the crash. Despite the struggles of both pilots to save the aircraft, it was later concluded that if they had just let go of the control column, the autopilot would have automatically taken action to prevent stalling, thus avoiding the accident. |
Come on guys, Mumbai Mirror is not a very reputable news paper. Have you seen the business class seats in Air India A321? I'd bet on it that the pilot seats are more comfortable than their J class seats.
I'm sure there is more to this story, I just hope that we will find out the truth. |
Lets hope it doesn't give Mr O'Leary any idea's
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Air India operates by a special set of CARs versus the private carriers:}.
As for new reporting, how may reporters could report any tory with any degree of accuracy and honesty, even if it happened right before their bloody eyes?:yuk: |
The inside dope. F/o on toilet break. As per SOP one C/C called in but invited to take P2 seat. Shortly after second C/c walks in , incredibly offered the P1 seat. Capt standing and teaching them how to fly a A-321 at 33000 ft. F/O comes back from toilet and all resume normal duties. Insiders say the F/O reported the matter to Flight Safety on arrival at DEL.
Capt Soni and the two c/c are under suspension. |
Captain Soni did not leave the cockpit immediately; instead, he spent a few minutes teaching the two stewardesseshow to operatetheaircraft She said she started to learn aerobatics as she did ņot understood well the flight. All that was before AF447 Captain Dubois rest... |
It must be said in their defense ,that allowing family members and friends to sit at the controls on cruise, notably to take photos, was extremely common before that time, and everywhere, not only in Russia. |
They blamed Boeing for the 772LR not fitting their route structure and loosing them money |
What about radio calls etc? It sounds highly unlikely.
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yikes.
but hey, if what hifly787 said is true, being the "inside dope", it sounds pretty believable & logical. the next question would be, why. looking forward to the official report to learn from this. |
dear jfkjohan:
For "why" I looked at the article from the paper in question, and noted the pictures of the two ladies. Both are very pretty. Conjecture: motive might be someone more concerned with the position of his own center stick than the aircraft's side stick. :cool: |
Dear Lonewolf_50,
A wise man did say, the biggest rise and/or fall of a man, be a woman. For this CM1, it was two. Oh well. |
My first thought was what about radio traffic? No comms for 40 minutes??
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No voice comms for 40 min over the Bay of Bengal is normal ops.
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Both are very pretty. Here you go .seems still valid as one managed to disconnect A/P . :-) But somehow the story sounds too good to be true. Up to 5 min I will buy . But 40 ? |
My sister and I took an Indian Airlines flight from Delhi to Kathmandu. We had been talking to one of the crew and when she found out we both worked for airlines she invited us up to the flight deck to get a better view of the Himalayas. Just after we arrived the Capt. and F/O got into a very heated argument. They seemed totally oblivious to the fact that they had pax in there. We had never seen anything like it. We beat a hasty retreat!
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Anyone who has ever been to India should not be in the least bit surprised by this story. I'm not. Sadly... Heck strange things are possible in India, but this is a stretch even for Air Indias low standards. Here is what AvHerald says Incident: Air India A321 enroute on Apr 12th 2013, 2 cabin crew in cockpit, autopilot disconnected unintentionally The truth ??? hmmmmm anyones guess .... |
Air India flight operated by cabin crew whilst pilots sleep |
Sleepy and Snoozy
I can't decide which is worse this Air India or the NWA incident. :confused:
Pilots suspended after 'falling asleep and overshooting airport by 150 miles' | Mail Online Is it better to have someone awake at the "pointy end" even if they are CC than having both pilots quietly zapped out? |
Just to prove that this site is increasingly inhabited by sciolists, no one has responded to the post by hifly787 stating:
The inside dope. F/o on toilet break. As per SOP one C/C called in but invited to take P2 seat. Shortly after second C/c walks in , incredibly offered the P1 seat. Capt standing and teaching them how to fly a A-321 at 33000 ft. F/O comes back from toilet and all resume normal duties. Insiders say the F/O reported the matter to Flight Safety on arrival at DEL. Capt Soni and the two c/c are under suspension. Jeez, we need somewhere new to discuss these incidents where the posters aren't overwhelmingly MS Flight Sim amateur NTSB or AAIB investigators. :mad: |
From AvHerald
Air India released a statement stating, that the aircraft was under control by flight crew at all times, at no time the flight attendants were at the controls of the aircraft. However, two cabin crew had a prolonged stay in the cockpit, during their "overstay" the first officer - in his seat - accidentally disconnected the autopilot probably as result of distraction while interacting with cabin crew and quickly re-connected the autopilot. Both flight crew and both cabin crew have been suspended pending investigation. Why would this even be a story. I have accidentally disconnected the autopilot in a 330 with my knee, why did that not make the news? Why have they all been suspended? |
Trying out the new CRM. Used to be Cockpit Resource Management, now Crew Resource Management...
Originally Posted by Hooters
Jeez, we need somewhere new to discuss these incidents
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An oldie but a goodie, alledgedly once heard on an ATC frequency:
ATC: 'Aeroflot 123, Control'. ATC: 'Aeroflot 123, Control'. Unknown voice: 'Listen, sonny, nip down the back and tell your Dad that Control is calling him'. |
Bernard Ziegler designed the A321s for his concierge. He sold them to the airlines with the same message : pilots are overtrained and overpaid, use new generation MS watcher.
AI added "The A320 is the only aircraft in the World who may be piloted by fools" Message received loud and clear in the cockpit too.:( |
Sloopy & Hooters
You guys are spot on.
Enough of the hysteria here!:ugh: |
''I have accidentally disconnected the autopilot in a 330 with my knee, why did that not make the news?''
It's very easy to accidently disconnect the AP on the FBW Airbus types. The disconnect/takeover button on the sidestick is neccessarily very accessible and consequently in a vulnerable position. It happened to me recently when the clipboard slid off the other pilot's table in turbulence. As far as I'm concerned, it's a very minor incident and when it happens, you just re-engage the AP - assuming you know how to! And that is why you don't allow unqualifed people to occupy the pilot's seats in flight. In our operation, we have to have a cabin crew on the flight deck if one pilot has to use the toilet and they sit on one of the jump seats. |
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