An email has been Sent -

Cheers -

the agency that sent the email to me was PARC.

Spoke to Rishworth today - they were open about the bond topic.
Contract finalization is taking place and CSA has shown an interest in protecting their investments regarding training costs - so far it has yet to be determined the specific details ie will it be a promissory note or will it be cash up front.

That's the goods I was told - I encourage you all to speak directly to your agencies for better details.

J

As part of the finalised contract China Southern Airlines are insisting that all Captains undertaking the transition training to B777, B787 or A330 must have either a bond or bank guarantee to the value of USD 22,000 in place. This bond/bank guarantee will be held and returned to Captains on completion of the 2 year contract. If a Captain terminates his contract before the end of the two year contract the following penalties will apply.



· If less than 6 months is worked the USD 22,000 will be paid to China Southern Airlines.

· If more than 6 months but less than 12 months is worked USD 19,000 will be paid to China Southern Airlines.

· If more than 12 months but less than 18 months is worked than USD16,000 will be paid to China Southern Airlines.

· If more than 18 months but less than 24 months are worked than USD13,000 will be paid to China Southern Airlines

This bond or bank guarantee will need to be in place before Captains begin on assignment

Just to clarify: Pilots already typed are not required to provide/sign a bond, right?

Of course for training purposes only can any one tell me how long you spend on the treadmill in last medical section of screening ?
Cheers

Latest News is its now a 4 year contract.

Im now awaiting medical results having completed stage one and the infamous YOGA ROSE position test.


Cheers

WJP

Yoga Rose?:uhoh:

PASCHIMOTTANASANA (seated forward fold)?
or
SUKHASANA (easy cross legged pose)?
wait must be
yes
FORWARD FOLD IN BADDHA KONASANA:)

Sorry mate none of the above
It's a small fraternity that have performed the pose and even fewer who wish to ever speak of it again.

Go to screening and you'll learn it

Cheers

Wjp

Uhmm....and thought I was only concerned with the written test, medical, HR interview and Sim ride.;)

For the Non type rated guys considering CS you need to consider a few essential points which your recruiter nor the airline will disclose. This will essentially be a Cruise Captain job during your initial contract. You will be bonded around 20K. The pass rate for NTR guys is less than 20%. The simulator is the main tool utilized for elimination. A friend of mine went through recently and 3 of 14 guys passed the simulator. The medical is another huge eliminator. Many will NOT pass and those who do pass can be eliminated at one of their recurrent medicals. The failure rate is around 10% for recurrent medicals. You can also fail or be terminated for QAR issues, hard landings bu copilots and recurrent simulator checks. Initially the company will tell you that you will be a full up Captain but just flying along with a more senior Captain. This is an old widely circulated story told by many other airlines in the recent past. Look at Jade Cargo guys who flew as Cruise Captains for 4 years. Look at NTR 330 guys at Air China who are still flying as FOs and paid as FOs. Look at Juneyao guys who take almost 1.5 years to get fully qualified as NTR Captains. China and the CAAC has a long long history of brining on NTR pilots and promising them Captain jobs and then delivering only a Cruise Captain job. You will eventually make it to full Captain but it will be after a long long heavy process as Chinese Captains smoke on you in the cockpit and harass you as an inexperienced copilot. For those already type rated this will probably turn out to be a decent contract. Another limiting factor is CS is expanding their International flying from Guanzhou. For one who flies and travels frequently in China I can tell you it is an uneconomic hub. It is isolated and people in China don't want to fly internationally from there. Shanghai and Beijing is where all the action lies. I can see CS over extending themselves from this hub and creating an unsustainable economic hub. For those who think this will be choosing an out based hub like SYD or MEL or AMS etc. do not believe it. It might work out ok for the Airbus guys but the Boeing guys will fly most of their trips from Guanzhou so be prepared for endless Deadheads. There are obstacles at every turn in China and the bureaucracy is mind boggling here. Things to keep in mind while pondering a job in China.

Hi WYOMINGPILOT,

what is the source of your information about the Cruise Captain?
are you an insider?

Thank you

PAR31

Wyomingpilot

I've attended first screening and specific to your cruise captain comments had a chance to speak to captains currently working this contract (expats)

There is indeed a p1 and p2 and as expats we start as p2
But in no way are you a cruise captain

It's my understanding and I will again clarify but legs including take off and landings are shared between captains as the first officers do not take off or land.

I'll look into it further but also ask are you currently on this contract
Is this first hand.

I appreciate your input for sure as many of us do but can you please clarify your direct position with this inside knowledge.

Best Regards
Wjp

Pay attention to the advice and reread my post. I can tell you what China Southern is promising for NTR guys and I can tell you what every airline in China has promised and what the CAAC will allow them to deliver. In the end you will find Jade Cargo, Air China, Grand Star, and Yangtze River all promised the same and then because of CAAC restrictions could not deliver. Jade guys were stuck as CC for 4 years. Air China has former A-320 captains now flying and being paid as FOs as they are still Cruise Captains 2 years after their training. Juneyao is now right at 1.5 years to take a NTR Captain and get them checked to the line. The Copilots will also need takeoffs and landings so whoever told you they will not perform takeoffs and landings is definitely misleading you. If you can tolerate 2 years of being smoked on in the cockpit and belittled as a copilot by the Chinese Captains then proceed. The first classes for NTR guys on the Boeing will not even start until April of 2014 at the earliest so you start your admission to the largest bureaucratic delay system in the world. The world of Chinese aviation. Welcome to the eternal world of delays, delays, delays. I have researched this contract and decided against it as I have 4 years of experience here in China and will remain at my current post without breathing toxic air.

WYOMINGPILOT,

thank you for sharing this info I really appreciate.

As you are quite well informed,do you have any news about West Air by any chance?

Thank you

PAR31

Having personally spent 5 years with one of the named Prc carriers (but not CSA) as a previously rated Dec, I can vouch for the accuracy of Wyoming Pilots posts. Small variations exist between them all depending on the local Caac interpretation of grey regulations and how far the carrier is along the 'living with expats' curve.

Expats at Csa are relatively new and are still something of a novelty.

Hello......Hello.......Hello......

Are there..... any present or past CSA CCQ pilots out there......

echo.... for sarcastic effect:rolleyes:

CSA PIC positions
 

In regards to Air China and other contracts like Jade in the past, it was always announced as Junior Captains and other terms which obviously meant that you were not fully qualified as PIC.

CSA and the agencies have only mentioned the term CAPTAINS even when directly asked.

I passed the assessment in August and I'm presently waiting for the CAAC sim check. Nobody can actually say if this contract will be indeed for a full captain position or not as the NTR pilots have not started this contract yet.

I have never worked in China before and I give credit to those who have and who warn their colleagues about the "beauties" of flying there, like paperwork, crazy medicals, silly delays and slots, failures during training, dismissals for no good reason, punitive culture in regards to incidents, smoking in the flightdeck, etc... But I'm still reluctant to believe that the contract is a bluff and that you will be flying as a CRZ CPT instead of PIC, contravening the terms that are being announced.

We shall see...

CSA china & aus taxes
 

Hi woodja51. I researched a bit, found out you will not need to pay Aus taxes if these 3 conditions met:
1. Working more than 183 days in China
2. Working for a Chinese co. &
3. Such Co. Has its base in China.
Does the contract with CSA actually indicate the fees of Usd18000 or usd13000 are clean of chinese taxes due?

Nobody has the contract yet, but the announced terms show "net of taxes".