Eva and China Airline
 

does anyone have any info on Eva and China Airlines ? rumors have it that they are recruiting soon, or they might have already been recruting ?
any info is appreciated !

A newsclip on TV in Taiwan mentioned EVA and China Airlines and Far Eastern Airways (newly restarted) are hiring hundreds of stewardesses between them. Could mean something.

Some news.

China Airlines, EVA Air to hire over 100 pilots this year - The China Post

"International experience Pilots" for NT$ 100,000= U$D 3,250:}:}:}

No comments!

:ugh::ugh: show me the moneeeeeeeeeeeey!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:
no big surprise why people are leaving then.

Have they actually started the interviews again, anybody on the forum apply yet with any details. I know about the low pay but I own a house In Taiwan. Thanks in advance

TC's
 

Ok, money sucks, but what about 1.Housing 2.Education and 3.Medical?
Working conditions and what type of life is available for an expat?

I see Cx is destroying these perks for the "cadet's" and I have determined it to be easier to be poor at home with my friends and family than move to HK and be poor and miserable.

Any input would be welcome.

Housing allowances= NT$ 24,000/ U$D 740
No school allowances/International Schools not less than U$D 1,000 per month...
Medical by the state and if something happen to one of your family memembers before the sixth month of residency you would have to pay by yourself.

Not interviews yet...

By the way, CAL is gonna charge for the type ratings...
U$D 18,000 or more...

So by ready with your checks before starting any thinking about CAL...

surely it must be a training bond you "pay" for to the get the type rating though... a 3 year bond or something like that? not just some big $$$ right out of your pocket.

and that U$D 3,250 quoted... is that before tax? thats pretty low...

Nop, it is not a training bond. CAL requires to deposit that amount of money in a bank account in Taiwan which is going to be frozen for three years after check out in the line.
More over, if you resigned before the end of the pledge you would have an additional penalty of two full salaries.

So, you have to show real money not the willing of paying if you resign before the end of the third year.

More information, PERDIEM U$D48 per day.:{:{:{
If you fly to the west you can get free breakfast but if you fly to the east you don't get it.

fo: with per diems, flying 90h per month, about 190,000nt, you also get 13th month+tax return(depends on your family circumstances). Last year I got 160,000nt tax return so all in all with good flying 90h per month or so clear 75000-80000usd per year. Taxes in your home country are your problem.... This is a commuting job, I would say less then 5% expats actually choose to live in TW. In that case you get some housing which is just ok. Not great but not that bad either.


As long as your hours are up around 80+ every month than its decent.

The 18,000 deposit was in 2007 when the salary was hight and ther were lost of other jobs pre 2008 crisis. They havent announced yet whats it gonna be this time around

I would like to know how many months during 2008 and 2009 did you get more than 75 hrs flying as FO:confused::confused::confused:
Next month are you gonna get more than 75???

Maybe you are working for a different company.:cool:

whats the terms of the commuting contract via roster etc?days off etc

cheers many thanks

Don't compare last 2 years, they were tough, not just in Asia but everywhere. Still managed to pocket a little over 70,000usd(13th month and tax return) in 2009. This year will be at least 15-20% better. Last 7 months I have not blocked less then 85h. A lot of us were over 100h for a few months in a row but that includes a few dh sectors. And guess what, it is not letting up. Average block hours for April seems to be 95h, subject to change ofcourse. Don't know where you work or what fleet (don't really care), these are just my numbers....

At this moment we are less tha 31 FO/RP in the B744.
And for FO, the roster for 2008/2009 have been always below 75 hrs per month.

RPs is always much higher, so you would be RP I guess.

Another thing you have to take into consideration is the expatriate contract pay is calculated base in FLIGHT HOUR (TO to Landing), so if your block time is 78 hrs it is usally less than 70 flight and no overtime.

The 13th salary, is not a full salary, it is only the basic wage.
For 2008, the 13th salary was U$D 3,900 but for 2009 it was U$D 3,600.

Up to November 2009, most of the expatriates contracts were not renewed after expiring.

After November, CAL is renewing but in local terms and for one/two/three years.

My terms and conditions were at the moment of hiring,
-Ground School
U$D 2,940 (-20% tax) + hotel accomodation

-Route Training
U$D 4,304 after passing the sim check (-20% tax)
+hotel accomodation

-On the line
U$D 4,335 (-20 tax) from the next day after passing the Route training
Market allowances U$D 1,000 (not taxable)
Housing allowances: NT$ 37,000 (-20% tax)

After January 2009 for FO/RP the Market allowances were cut to U$D 500 and the Housing allowances were cut to NT$ 30,000.

For getting the tax refund, expatriate pilots have to be more the 183 days in Taipei per year.
As we were flying less for 2008/2009, we were getting those days, so the tax refund is around 10% of what you had paid.
Depends also in how many dependants do you have.

The numbers for an expatriate FO flying the basic 75 hrs per month are:
-Basic Salary (U$D4335-20%)= U$D3.468
-Market Allowances (U$D500)= U$D500
-Perdiem (12 days per month)=U$D576
-Housing allowances after tax=NT$24,600/U$D 773

Total pay check=U$D5,317

If you get the refund, mine is for 2009 NT$200,000/U$D6,289/U$D524 per month.

Adding the bonus (U$D 3600) makes an average pocket money per month of=U$D 6,141

There are few guys who are based in Vancouver/LAX/Frankfurt.
CAL calls them ELO=Extended Lay Over.
They start and end their duty in those bases.
So the company doesn't pay housing allowances but CAL provides hotel accomodation in TAIPEI (NOVOTEL at the Taoyuan Airport).

Being ELO doesn't mean that those guys are flying always to those destinations.
It means that the first day of their working month is started from their bases flying to TPE (operating or dead head).
The ELO guys usually don't get the refund because it is very hard for them to have 183 days at Taipei.

Those are the numbers for the expatriates in CAL in the 744 fleet.

cosmiccomet Great post...Thank you.
I was told EVA pay's even less than CAL....WOW flying widebody jet around the world for less than what I make in the right seat of A320.. I guess it would be a great place to build some jet time and leave....as long as you don't have any family to feed or see.

That is great information posted above from some of you guys. Is there any other information on what kind of pilots they are looking for hours/experience wise? Turbine time required, previous type ratings, etc? Are guys getting hired with more or less than what I listed above? When do they plan on conducting these interviews and when does the window close? I know the pay is not the best but I am trying very hard to get to Taiwan for personal reasons. If anyone has additional information or is able to provide any assistance it would be greatly appreciated!

Some more advice on CAL/EVA


ELO... outstation bases... Its not avail to all. Depends if there is a slot available and only generally on the 744 fleet only. Typically you will get 8-10 consecutive days off a month, and then the rest of the month operate from Taiwan. If you take the 10 days/month I believe also you no longer get vacation days. (I didn't do ELO .. but I think your 2 vac days/mo are added to your 8 days off... not sure about it...if wrong please correct me) Housing allowance is removed, which is about 800 usd so don't forget to subtract that from your take home. You won't get the favourable resident tax treatment, even if on ELO you will pay 20% to Taiwan I believe. If you stay in Taiwan, it is only reduced to about 13-17%. Anyway, its a sliding scale so the less you make the less you pay. typical rent Taipei is about 1000-1500 usd excluding expenses. So, if you take the cash, and no word if its available anymore, you will be out of pocket most likely. If you take co accom, you will stay in a hotel at the Airport with nothing around and about 1 hour drive away from Taipei. AND dont forget to pay tax in your home country whatever that rate will be. So.... maybe at the end of the day you will walk home with 4k in your pocket if your lucky, and be jet lagged and worked to the bone. Those that say takehome 70-80k/yr? Hmm... i don't know aboutthat. I was on the highest foreigner widebody rate I thought and I didn't take home that much. Maybe with OT and before taxes, and def not on ELO.

If they offer you a new Type rating, you will be stuck with a bond that they will deduct from your paycheck. Another 500-1000/month gone. And don't think you will be able to skip out. Some have tried and they have taken those people to court in their own countries and made them pay the bond.

Do not give any credit to the pension quoted in the offering, it is totally bogus. You have to reach 55 years old to get it. If you don't you get nothing. What they do is after your initial contract they will renew annually or something like that and before its your turn to collect, they will just not renew you. This has happened to so many guys now its not funny. One was in court suing (worked for many years, and was very close to 55) recently and was denied at the supreme court level. In any western country you have Labor standards/fairness Laws, that protect everyone equally. Not so in Taiwan. The supreme court easily stated that because the Foreigner was not a National, he is not entitled to the labor fairness laws. So, Apparently discrimination is alive and well in Taiwan. You are not entitled to severance either.

They lie and tell you what you want to hear to make you think there is promise and long term potential so they can screw you and keep the salary low, and then in the end just before you are going to gain something from them, you get notice so they can save on the pension and rotate a new idiot in. They say there is chance to upgrade, but its very scetchy and there out of hundreds that I have seen come and go, only about half a dozen have actually done it. You will get fought all the way... the check pilots will fail you on something small just to make the Nationals look better and give the official reason why the 2500 hour wonder will get it before you. You will get an SB on something where the national won't and it will be the reason you dont get your chance. They think they can get away with it endlessly, but don't think about the reprocussions of the guys that they screw. They don't think that those guys can reach the others that they will hire. They think that there is an endless line of foreigners that are begging for the job, and that they can get away with it forever. This is why I am writing this. Pilots should show some solidarity and gumption, and do not work for these outfits, especially since they don't pay. Show CAL/EVA that they have to compete properly for our talents. Don't be fooled, there are not the labor protection laws in Taiwan that exist in other countries. You will not get severance or anything.

If your dead set on Asia, go to Korean, where at least they are up front and TRUTHFULL about their policies and pay you more.

Big WARNING. STAY AWAY.

Cal terms
 

Cal is looking for type rated experienced pilots. They are and have hired some more rocket scientist from the coutryside of Taiwan and at this very moment they are pointing out the difference between a scooter and an airplane. The expats they are looking for need a type rating with experience as I heard. Yes I know this is always a joke. Someone in the freakin Congo says you must be type rated to even think about joining our village and have the pleasure of working here. Anyways the cash will likely not be 3500usd a month that would be stretch even for Cal. No doubt there will be a bond as they realize without the leg shackle this symbiotic relationship generally ends very soon. Cash wise 6k-7k a month for an Rp is not unheard of with the present OT we have been doing. And yes ELO pilots do get tax returns and there required days in country. An ELO base may or may not be available. In my opinion if these guys decided to pay in the future this would be a reasonable job. Kal is an Fo option but does not upgrade. Commuting is easy, and the new CP is a good dude. Upgrading does happen, but you have to survive and it is rare. Personally I enjoy 98.9 percent of my flights here. Iam however a dork at the best of times. Anyways yes they are recruiting and have discussed increasing the pay to attract candidates. Believe it when I see it myself.......just my opinion.

What would the chances be of getting hired there with 3,000 hours, an ATP but no TR?

greetings!
 

i was reading these posts regarding the hrs, i am curious in what country are u employed? seems to be a good number of hrs despite de worldwide crisis !
i'm a prospect pilot by the way I'm just looking at options

cheers !

I'm employed in the U.S. Could've gone to the regional airlines here a number of times but I can't stand the crappy pay and horibble treatment of pilots! Come to think of it, it doesn't sound all that different from what many of you guys have described at CAL. At least I get to be in Taiwan though! :)

Hey Ryan.

Taiwan? Have you been there? We are not talking about KUL or SIN. This is Taiwan..... Its not GREAT to be there, but its just ok. I would say actually that it rather sucks here. I would waaay rather be anywhere in the Continental US or Canada or Europe than Taiwan anyday. If you want to come to asia, I suggest you try Air Asia, Vietnam Airlines, Tiger, Cathay, or KAL. Yes its tru CAL/EVA doesn't say "we won't upgrade you" but you might as well read it as that. I would say less than say... 2% of any foreigners that come here actually get it. You think your gonna be that 1 or 2 %??? Dream on! I know others that have worked here read this soo.... speak up if you agree with me! I saw no less than a few hundred foreigners come here and leave, not because they just found better jobs, but because CAL was a really bad place to work. Many even left and paid the bond to leave. And I will repeat, out of that 300 that were here, about a dozen are left! I suggest you read between the lines!

I don't really think that you realize what you are giving up or missing if you come here. If you come here, you will probably get stuck forever in the contract world, and most likely, miss that chance you may have for a legacy in the US or your home country just by not being present in the country. Also, you will be living like a travelling gypsy, unable to sustain any meaningful relationship. You will also be missing much of the years where its important to meet your life partner. One day you turn 40 and you realize why you are still single, have no kids and probably now never will. Its because you decided to go to that commuting contract job in another country during your best years. Many of you thinking about this may scoff at it as I did when others were warning me, but believe me, its important.

My best advice from experience, is stay in your home country and build your castle. Be with your friends, meet your partner, and live a good life. This commuting thing is neat for a short while, but after that it sucks. Pay your dues in the regionals, and give the majors there a shot. When you have done that, then try this.

Life is not perfect, and neither is aviation, but the grass is not greener on the other side.... EVER. Its the same, it just has different weeds growing!

Remember, you will pay 20% tax in Taiwan, then you will have to pay tax in the US. And that on about 5k/month minus whatever your bond is, and then you will be worked to the bone for 22 days a month.... yes...almost every day!!!! (ok...1day a week off then) Your 8 days off/month you will have to commute back and forth, and so effectively you will have 6 days in your home, where you will be jet lagged and sleeping during the day probably.... feeling like ****, and then back to work again for that after tax 4k/month. And you will be stuck with it for a few years unless you want to pay the bond. And when you go, you are entitled to nothing! Think im exageratting? Why would 99% of all the foreigners that have come here have left?

Trust me, go to Cathay or something. Don't come here. Unless they finally ante up and actually pay market++ to compensate for the shortcomings.

If you come for an interview, ask how come so many foreigners have left in the past. I would love to see what answer they come up with for that!

Good luck.

PM me anytime.

wayyyoutthere

Great and balanced post with really the essence of the real matter.:D

My, my, how the tables are turned....

Ask them this on the screening:

How many expatriates did you have two years ago and how many are still working for you and why?

Then paste the answer here and wait for the response.

One more thing.
Do not settle with their bond proposal.
Do not give them any money.

Hey waaaaytoodepressed

Why don't you go to Cathay? It's so easy giving advice on anonymous forums. Basically what you're saying is, if they paid you more all that relationship, possibly never having kids, missing your friends crap...... would actually be worth it? Good, every hooker has her price as well as every pilot. Just because you're depressed, suicidal, your relationship is in shambles, dislike your workplace, dislike Taiwan, doesn't mean everyone else is like you. Sure this place has shortcomings but overall (EVA) didn't layoff any pilots last year, the paycheck was on time and now that we're flying more the money is not too bad, yes it can and should be better. Expats are leaving all the time, apparently for better jobs. I'm looking for my ticket out but have not found it yet.

I have a TW girlfriend, seldom go back to my home country, my tax rate end of the year is 12%, don't have to pay tax in my home country, life here is cheap. It's definitely not expat like HK or SIN but having a local gf helps a lot.

I'm waiting for the day waaaaytoodepressed becomes a one line news in Taoyuan Bugle,"expat no name pilot commits suicide by stepping in front of a truck transporting pigs...''

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. :ok:

A bit harsh don't you say?

May I ask you two questions, seems that you really like the place.

1. Why don't you marry your girl from Taiwan?
2. Why are you looking for a ticket out?

No, not harsh at all. The depressed one said ''Unless they finally ante up and actually pay market++ to compensate for the shortcomings. '' So he has a price he would be willing to suffer for.

1. Why do you care about my personal life? I may marry her, I may not, who is to say what the future will bring. There have been more then a few foreign pilots marrying Taiwanese girls. I'm happy, she's happy and that's all that matter. This has nothing to do with flying here, just improves my life immensly.

2. Looking for better opportunities elsewhere because of that well know grass story... I know command will probably never come here, money is on the low side when comparing other places, but still fine and acceptable for my personal situation. Sure, living in Taipei as a foreigner is challenging but I get on with my life and make the best of it.

I just choose not to be depressed, pissed off, angry, suicidal... I mean, the depressed ones story is like ABC movie of the week. A pathetic sob story. One man's (I use that term loosely) life shouldn't be a determining factor in taking a job or not.

But I'm just talking from my ass, this being pprune how could I actually have something positive or at least neutral to say?

How is the commuting policy and how difficult to hold a western North American outport base? All the minus' to the company aside flying a widebody from YVR is fairly coveted job in Canada. So I'd like to judge the company myself at an interview. All the critizisms and praise is gratefully noted though. Cheers.

Something positive about CAL are the peanuts...are great:}:}:}

With EVA, the only way you can be flying a heavy out of Vancouver is if you get the 747. There are no outport bases anymore as far as I know. Then once a month you could bid for a YVR trip, most of the time you will get it. You start and end all your trips in TPE. Commuting to YVR I imagine is easy, block days off + 2 days annual leave per month you will have perhaps 8 days off at home (you lose some days commuting). And if you get that one TPE-YVR trip every month maybe stretch your home days to 10.

If you get MD11 that's a totally different beast, 330 regional flying with occasional Vienna or Brisbane, 777 the best and most stable roster of all but mainly reserved for Taiwanese. Overall take a look at your current experience, age, where you wanna be in 10 years and make your decision. It's not the best or the worst job out there, and as long as you keep a good healthy attitude, view it as temp job of a few years you will do fine. Oh, and get yourself a gf here, enjoy the nights out in Taipei. Basically what I'm saying is, enjoy your time no matter where you are. Leave your room, get a metro card, taxi discount card, local cellphone and have fun.

so CAL are recuiting on their website? but what about EVA? There is no link. Slightlyconfusing after speaking to a skipper in the hotel who said that they were?

Chances of getting in with 7700hrs TT and 2800hrs B756 RHS?

In all seriousness, thank you for the information you posted earlier.

Having said that...

Yes, I have been to Taiwan many times. My WIFE is Taiwanese and part of our family currently lives there. Personally, I love it there and would much prefer it to any place in Canada or Europe any day! I also speak Chinese, granted its not fluent, but it sure makes a big difference.

I fully realize what I'm giving up by LIVING in Taiwan and not the U.S. I think the problem is that you are expecting to live the same life in Taiwan as what you had in the U.S. (or wherever it is you are from). It is a different country, different language, different people. You have to adjust yourself and get out and enjoy the culture there. This, I believe, is a big part of the reason many foreigners have left EVA/CAL. Yes, I agree that pay and work life have a lot to do with it as well but I don't believe that is the whole story. You see too many people writing on here about how they lose two days commuting back home, and how they are stuck in some hotel/dorm room in Taiwan doing nothing on their layovers. I don't care what country you live in, you will hate any place when you try to live like that!!!

Of course by living there I will have much more time at home with my wife and kids. My taxes will also be greatly reduced from the example you provided since I will be living there. I have my family and friends in Taiwan so I will still be "at home."

***dabssa... thanks for all the information as well. Any help or advice you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated.

*** Is there anyone else on here who has applied and either received a response back from CAL or gone to an interview recently?

all this talk about girlfriends...
 

hey guys... all this talk about girlfriends brings up another point: if we're hired by CAL (or EVA) and want to make the move to Taiwan, are we able to bring our girlfriends to live there with us? or do they get left behind in our home countries? anyone know?

no response/call from CAL yet for me... +3700TT, +1000Jet, etc... (maybe its not enough). having trouble with the application website again too...

thanks

Just reference the scheduling... how is bidding done? If one was could bid trips to YVR could you not bid all YVR pairings and bounce back and fourth?

Just to be clear, I have not heard from them; 5000TT+, 1000 Jet, 3000 airline

The reason why people left CAL/EVA is not Taiwan and its people.
It is the Airline.
If you want to go there, by all means go and you will enjoy it.
Nice routes, airplanes, decent roster. Taiwan is clean and convenient.
But do not expect anything. Stability, long term job, salary raise, upgrade, seniority, contract honoring, fair taxation. Training is another issue.
If you are with the family check out the fees of TAS (Taiwan American school) and the rentals at Tien-mu. For the local schools your kid needs to speak Chinese or you commute so you don't see your family.
Contract is only for few years and will not be renewed subject for the requirements.
Bottom line, you are an expat, replacing the cadet until he is prepared to take over.
You are not welcomed, you are required.
Act accordingly and you 'll be fine

L.

Taiwan gives 30 day landing visa to citizens of a great many countries (UK citizens get 90 day landing visa). If you get an Alien Resident Certificate by virtue of working for Ci or EVA then your WIFE (but not a girlfriend) could stay in Taiwan by piggybacking on your ARC. You would both be entitled to national health care after a short qualifying period. But she wouldnt be able to work on her ARC thats tied to yours. If she holds a passport from an English speaking country (such as USA/Canada/UK/Australia/New Zealand/South Africa) then she can teach English at cram schools , provided she has a 4 year college degree or a 2 year degree and a teaching certificate . She will then get her own work related ARC based on her teaching English. This is what your girlfriend can also do if she qualifies. Pay is around 20 usd/hour.

Not a whole lot of other jobs. IF she wants to work in another field she will need at least two years experience in that field and be sponsored by a company that is qualified to hire her.

I gather in the past many young pilots have gone to Ci and EVA to get the rating and hours and then left for better positions elsewhere. To stay for decades in Taiwan would mean you REALLY want to be there.

Taipei American School (your child needs to have a US passport to enroll there) and Taipei European School (your child needs a European passport to enroll there) are both very expensive at bout 12,000 us/annum or thereabouts. So if you have children, you may want to let them go to local schools and become fluent in Mandarin.

Please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above, been ten years since I left the island.

edit: Wanted to add that another way for your Girlfriend to stay in Taiwan longer then 30 days each time would be if she enrolls in a Mandarin class. She can get an ARC based on that. There are requirements for how many hours a week she needs to go to school. But its not very expensive and there are many qualified schools.

p.s. A great forum to get info about life in Taiwan is Taiwan's Global Online Community • Forumosa You can ask the expats on that forum questions and get some straight answers.

thanks for the info about 'importing' your girlfriend, thats exactly what i needed to know.

another quick question for those expats living in Taiwan or elsewhere in Asia (or the Middle East)... are you somewhat of a "tight-knit" group when you're there? as in: is it easy to make friends once you're out there, get together for beers when you're off, meet other similar expats to hangout with... or is it an every man for himself kind of deal? making friends with locals is all good too of course, but sometimes its nice to have some type of social structure already set up when you arrive. at my airline here in the West its hard to meet other F/Os, we all have our own thing going on. when we go to work - its to work. then we go our own way and do our own thing after... maybe as an expat pilot its different?