OMNI aviation philippines
 

can anyone give me feedback on this school. im planning to take up aviation after i graduate from college.

PAL is not an option because they dont accept students with glasses.
Clark aviation is also not an option coz i've been hearing negative feedback on this school and the P4M tuition is simply outrageous considering they havent proven anything yet. i've also learned that the MPL and the alpha planes are having problems with ATO.

im now thinking of going to OMNI. is this a good aviation school? what other schools would you recommend>

I would like to second Don Vito in asking for some feedback re: Omni Aviation.

Someone in another thread mentioned that PAL won't start the application/screening process until October this year. I don't think I can wait that long anymore and I'm seriously considering going to Omni instead and taking the Gen Av Route.

Also, how about Air Link Aviation School?

The Right School..
 

hey all..want to see which school is the best?

First check out their facilities and their aircraft.
How many aircraft they have available for training.
How many of those are IFR rated (after your PPL of course).
How many instructors are available (given that the airlines are hiring, there may not be enough qualified instructors around).

From previous experience of running a school i think the most important part of a school are the aircraft and instructor availabilities.

When shopping for a school, do it like you are shopping for a big item ...carefully make sure that the product you will be buying is in good condition.

And when you decide which school you want to fly in dont put all your money at once. Make a gradual payment. Pay as you go. Some school will give discounts if you pre-purchase a certain amount of flight time instead of paying for each flight sessions. But be forewarned... even if you pay in advance to get a lower rate on the aircraft...availability way upset you when that aircraft is down for maintenace or other reasons..

Its your money..please do shop carefully.


ps...smiling goat..whats your budget...?

omni aviation
 

Don Vito,

Omni aviation is a good school, i am from Clark Av but our flying phase were subcontracted in Omni. Omni instructors are professional.

The owner himself came from an airline, so he really knows what he's doing, compared to other schools who just wants your money. But i guess, everybody will have different opinions on one thing, this is only mine.

Good luck to you bro!!! :ok:

Gradual Payments
 

Thanks for the advice Sir!

The plan is to do exactly what you said, make gradual payments and pay as you go. The budget will (hopefully) be anywhere inside of what it would cost to go to PAL Aviation School, since that is the first choice.

I'm still in the initial stages of the search so all I have to go with for now is advice about flying schools from people like you and others in this forum who may have knowledge about which schools offer the best rates/packages etc. This is like making online research on the "big item" you want to buy before actually going out there and seeing it for yourself first hand.

@jester
thanks for the tips. im sure omni has enough trainer planes, they ordered 6 more cessnas. this is also an indicator that their student population is increasing.

@mplcadet
from what i've read, CA has their own planes. so why did you have to fly at omni?

@smiling goat
do you know how much PAL av charges for PPL, CPL and IFR? i inquired at omni and it costs P1.5M for the PPL, CPL and IFR.

Do you guys know any graduates of omni? i'd like to know how their aviation careers are doing. like what airlines do they work for.

i think schools are successful if their graduates are successful.

@Don Vito

if i may answer why some cadets at CA fly at Omni when they have their own planes:

CA only has 4 R2120U's that cater to about 40 cadets who aren't subcontracted with Omni... with one full-time instructor at the moment (and you thought Filipino public school teachers work out of devotion).

:8

A FTO is a complex machine:
Yes, you have to check plenty of data:

• Ground School: quality of Groundies, Are they properly teaching or just giving answer to questions? You may think the most important is to pass through the exams. No, it is not... you have to get an aviation education and a solid background for a whole career. The exams are just an assessment. You should be able to answer any question relative to the syllabus and you must not be only prepared to answer the Question Bank of your Civil Aviation Authority. Later on, when you will try to join an Airlines, the missing knowledge will be quickly detected during your interviews and you will pay a high price on your career if you have underestimated the knowledge you must acquire.
• On the Flying side, good instructors and the ratio "Students per instructor" are key elements. ICAO states that the OVERALL (considering students in the Ground School + in the Flying School) ratio must be 6 to 1. In fact, this ratio varies depending on the training phase. If you consider only the Flying School, training on a JAR syllabus, the ratio is approximately 3 to 1 during the PPL phase, 5 to 1 during the "Building Hours" phase and 2 to 1 during the ME/IR phase. Credentials of instructors have to be checked. Is the school utilising "Part Time" Flight Instructors? If yes, this is an important factor of non standardisation of the training and shows a low standard concept.
• Maintenance is also a key factor. How many LAMES (Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers)? How many mechanics? Is the scheduled maintenance properly planned? A visit of maintenance facilities is very instructing.
• A modern training is using proper simulators devices fully agreed by the Civil Aviation Authority with proper visual systems (FNPT II, FBS....we discard gadgets like computer stations). But, if the performances of the simulators are an important factor, another key element is the quality of the Simulator instructors. How many simulators instructors?
• Another key element is the proposed syllabus. The Civil Aviation Authority has to check that a minimum standard is proposed. But the Major schools are delivering a training which is -most of the time- more important than the basic requirements. Because, in serious FTOs, we are "educators" and not only "trainers" and we consider the knowledge which is required by our main customers, -Airlines-, and the evolution of modern technologies and not only the ad-minimum Regulations set by Authorities.
• Finally the price is not the fundamental issue, on contrary. What,- if after spending a lot of money-, you are found " below the "Standard" and cannot enter in Airline? Maybe, the slim difference you have been reluctant to pay will cost you a lot all your life. What happens in India is a good example: thousands of students have flocked overseas, looking for the cheapest training. They come back home with a low standard CPL/IR and most of them fail the Airline Entry tests....Such a spoilage!!!
• A serious FTO will always propose you a progressive payment in several instalments.

If the FTO is managed by former Airline staff: generally they do know what is required as Entry Level of Ab-Initio cadets and they are fully aware of the Civil Aviation Culture, it is also a definitive plus.

Being an old instructor, which years of experience, this is my 10 cents in this thread

The right school
 

A couple of points to add. Check and ask around what kind of fuel the school is using. It has been a trend for flying schools to do a mix of AVgas / MOgas you would want to stay away those that mix it up or even worse us pure Mogas.

another helpful tip is to ask and check around the number of incidents / accidents the school has had. This will give you a very good insight on how well the institution is ran.

Thanks Ubing for your add-in
I am not in the Philippines and MOGAS is not tolerated in most of Countries including where I am- because it is not a Certified Aviation Fuel, it can contain water in small quantity and impurities. MOGAS is not under the rigorous constraints of aviation fuel for checks and storage. UK-CAA has published information about utilisation of MOGAS and from their studies, it appears that in our tropical countries, the ambient temperature discards totally the use of MOGAS. More, I have heard about a school utilising MOGAS on Lycoming engines: the consequences were financially high: the valves are not appreciating this fuel, and they have to change the top heads at half normal life time.

More in Training we should apply the "transport Category" regulations which once more bans the utilisation of a non certified aviation fuel. The practice of using MOGAS should be condemned.

One accident may always happen in one school even the best ones, but the reasons of the accident have to be analysed sharply. But several incidents/accidents are certainly suspicious.

@paolylo
so thats 1 FI:40 cadets. no wonder their students are getting delayed.

@passenger07
thanks for the detailed info :ok: btw, what does "FTO" stand for? and since you're an experienced aviator, what school would you suggest for pilot wannabes aside from PAL av and CA?

flight training
 

...dont limit yourselves to Flight Schools. Roam aorund the airport and make some friends. There maybe some private owners who flight train on the side. They dont have a flight school per say but do use private airplanes to instruct in. Books, curriculum are all available from Jeppssen. Self study is a littel more difficult..so alot of self motivation is a must. This will truly show your desire to fly.

Now of course if you chose this path you would have to be a self starter and very self motivated. Since there are no classroom you are on your own to self motivate to study and progress on the curriculum.

good luck..

"keep the blue side up"

FTO stands for Flight Training Organisation and TRTO stand for Type Rating training Organisation
I do not know the exact situation of the Philippines Schools. I just try to help promoting a fair situation in SE Asia.
As I do not know the exact current situation in Philippines, I cannot advise you on a particular school.
Outside Philippines, I cannot advertise for a school because PPRUNE will ban me.
Another point is that I do not know in which conditions you can convert a Foreign licence in Philippines one.
If this conversion is easy, I can recommand you something. Check first how to convert an ICAO licence in Philippines one, then PM me.

@Don Vito

we do have 8 more... it's just that one of them only works part-time during weekends as he is also an FI elsewhere and the ATO either hasn't released the R2120U ratings or finished check-riding the rest of our instructors.

About what Jester Icarus suggests:
It is rare -but I know a couple of them-, some Airlines Instructors, aviation passionated, continue some activities in Flying Club in plus of their Airline activity. Yes if you are very lucky such a guy can train you and bring you to the required level.
Other Flight Instructors, with no Airlines experience and particularly no Ab Initio Cadet training experience, and not involved in a real professional FTO, have only a vague idea of the required standard. Beware of the Aeroclub or Airport Bar "aficionados".... they talk heavily but the truth is often not there....
I recommand strongly to be trained by proper professionals and not "amateurs".

For your information, in our professional FTO, during the recruitment procedure, we reject a majority of Instructor CVs after analysing their experience and the way they have gotten it. If they pass this first scrutinising phase, at the arrival in our FTO, they will have to face a question test, a simulator check. If they are declared OK, then they will have a "Standardisation" training (Around 10 days).
This kind of evaluation/procedure is typical of what is done in the best FTOs worldwide, and yes we can ensure that our cadets are going to be trained properly.
The Groundies are selected on reference through our relational network, then they will be checked: they have to be able to teach at least 3 topics at the JAR level and must be highly IT literate because they have to produce and update their training supports.

almost forgot
 

the all important gut check.

hey ;) ...

hearing negatives about CA? .. hmmm ... why hearing .. why not makin sure about it?


if u are from the Philippines .. why not afford to pay a visit to CA?

and why not afford to pay a visit to omni?

good luck in ur training ;)

^because they will surely cover-up or deny any deficiencies they have :ok:

Don Vito, i do suggest you visit OMNI field where all of PAL Av, OMNI, and CA's planes are chocked. there's more credible info there when you speak to OMNI's staff since they'll give you their brochure compared to browsing their website or asking this pilot's rumors forum. i did visit OMNI a couple of years back when i was still looking for a flying school and it was very fruitful.

if you're at it... why not drive further along the main road and pay us a vist at CA just so you can confirm if our marketing staff will surely cover-up or deny our school's deficiencies? (they'll prolly tour you to the level D A320 full flight sim where the Cebu Pac pilots train... i dare you to ask how many CA cadets have used it) who knows? chances are you will meet cadet pilots who graduated from your college alma mater and tell you and your parents what they think about CA's program. :\

OMNI crash in December 2007
 

2 hurt as plane crashlands in Nueva Ecija rice field


By Anselmo Roque
Central Luzon Desk
First Posted 04:50pm (Mla time) 12/20/2007


CABANATUAN CITY, Philippines -- Two persons, one of them an Indian pilot, were hurt when their plane crashlanded in a rice field in Zaragoza, Nueva Ecija, on Thursday.
Police said the Indian pilot, Sandeen Kimmar, 30, and his co-pilot, Jeffrey Mabbang, 26, of Tarlac City, were taken to a hospital in nearby La Paz, Tarlac, and later transferred to the Central Luzon Doctors’ Hospital in Tarlac City.
Chief Inspector Restituto Reyes, Zaragoza police chief, said Kimmar’s two-seater Omni plane apparently experienced mechanical problems at about 10 a.m., forcing the pilot to make an emergency landing in Barangay (village) Valeriana, seven kilometers from Zaragoza town proper.
Zaragoza is some 30 kilometers west of this city.
Reyes said the plane left Clark air field in Pampanga earlier in the day for a routine training flight.
He said residents of Barangay Valeriana noticed the plane was circling several meters above the ground before it landed in the rice field.

wow that sucks. mechanical problems wouldnt happen if the plane is well maintained right?

was there any statement from omni regarding this?

IFR for PAL costs around 400-500K, that's what I heard from other PAL Walk-in Students. Not sure with the complete package (PPL, CPL, IFR) with PAL.

I personally know one student who graduated from Omni now flying with PAL. There may be others who finished in Omni but I don't know them.

Base on what I've heard from my Omni Schoolmates, Omni students have scheduling priority over CA students. I haven't flown for a couple of months though.

If I may add, real SOLO X-Country is allowed in Omni given you were endorsed to fly solo by your instructor. Most schools in the Philippines will only allow you to go SOLO if you are doing TAGS in the pattern.

quick question
 

Any cfi jobs at omni or Philippines? how much are they paid if tuition is almost the same as here in U.S?

Don Vito,

Your comment is downright daft.

not daft. just rhetorical to him at least. mechanical problems can happen even if the plane is well maintained. who knows? maybe the pilot flew with extra carbon deposits after doing an idle throttle check? maybe the mixture setting was too lean considering the outside temperature? could be a lot of things... could even be a pilot error and the pilot lived to tell that it was a mechanical problem.

the guys wearing sky blue overalls who do the maintenance for OMNI, PAL, CA, and the private planes (or choppers) chocked in the hangar do their jobs pretty well... if i needed to ask anything mechanical, they know what they're talking about.

Do you guys know any graduates of omni? i'd like to know how their aviation careers are doing. like what airlines do they work for.--

I know some former F.I.s from Omni are already flying the airlines

From PAL they have one 747 Captain, one A320 FO, One A340 SO.
From Cebu Pacific Air I've heard some just finished ground schooling with the A320s and 19s.

From Asian Spirit one FO in BAE146, one FO in Dash 7 and another FO in CN235.

Just not sure how many are home grown, but they are progressing somehow.

Most of the students i know from last year are already licensed FIs and already teaching in different flying schools in the Philippines.

If some thinks Omni is prioritizing the few CIA students, imagine enrolling in a flying schools teaching bulks of Indian students and compete with their schedule.

In Omni there is a policy of 1 student one Instructor until you fly solo. You only need FI until you have your first solo and during first xcountry flights. When you get your PPL you can fly solo all you want to the routes you have been checked out.

Its the only flying school that allows students to fly solo as much as they want.

With regards to Ground Instructions almost all flying schools here in the Philippines do the same style. Let the Newbie teach to get the required teaching hours to get the license but "MUST BE SUPERVISED BY A LICENSED GROUND INSTRUCTOR"

My last suggestion is to try Airworks flying school in Manila owned by Capt Halili. Its pricey but worth it.

With regards to accident statistics, Omni is blessed to have no fatal accidents so far. Many flying schools have their one share of accidents, lucky for some its not published in the news. Most accident happens due to negligence. Negligence in part of the mechanic can be prevented because Pilot do the final check. Its them who has the final say. Just be preventive and inspect the A/C thoroughly before you board and be aware of the situation at all times when airborne.

"There are OLD pilots and BOLD pilots, but There are no OLD BOLD pilots" :)

"that news paper article is the most fatal accident for OMNI"

You are funny pulizaido. How can it be the "most fatal accident" when there were no fatalities?

off topic:

can anyone tell me what the word "Daft" means?

daft
 

defination: daft

like daft-fy duck... foolish and crazy

thanks for all the info. im pretty much decided that im going to omni since 1) it costs much cheaper than PAL and CIA.(P1.5M for the PPL, CPL and IFR). last time i heard, PAL costs P2.5M for the ab-initio pilot program.

2) quality training. the increase in the number of students are a proof of this and besides the accident in december 2007, theres not much bad things to say about them. also, CIA wouldnt entrust their students to a low quality school. especially since they're shelling out P4M.

3) 1 student 1 instructor is great. although i doubt they could keep that up with all the students.

all i need to do now is secure an SPL from the ATO.

any tips for this? Omni accepts students with glasses, im not sure about ATO.

Definitions
 

" ... fatal accident for OMNI. the plane was a total write off, the indian student had stiches on his forehead, the safety pilot was burned badly (1st degree burns)"

The term "fatal accident" is used by the media, not in incident/accident reports.

The aircraft:

If it's a hull loss then it's an aircraft accident.

The crew members:

1. There were no fatalities, only injuries.
2. Stitches on forehead and 1st degree burns covering 5% or less of the body are not classified as serious injuries.

Ref.: ICAO Annex 13; NTSB Part 830

Reply to Alpha
 

"What is the point of your post? .. based on your definitions how will the ATO classify this? an accident or an incident? ... since no one died but the aircraft was a write-off how will this be treated?"

Thank you Alpha.

From the account I can see it's an aircraft accident. In an aircraft accident or incident, investigation reports list the number of fatalities (zero in this case) and injuries (two).

I am normally too busy to contribute in this forum, but what caught my attention is the term "fatal accident". I felt I ought to take time out to write something about this. I am separating the term "fatal" and "accident".

I wrote that the term "fatal accident" is used by news reporters. Now if a professional investigator used it in his report I stand corrected. We are careful about terms and check definitions.

It was my business to read accident/incident reports and investigate as well. It's not a pleasant task at all.

Good day to you gentlemen.

First post here, hello everyone!:)

Don Vito, I like you have done lots of research on flying schools here in the country and boiled it down to Omni. I'll be starting on April 21 and plan to take the full PPL, CPL, IFR package...yep I'm excited! :O With cost being a major concern for me, Omni seems to be the most reputable and I also haven't heard much negative things about them.

With regards to getting a SPL, once you have given Omni the go signal a liaison officer will accompany you to the ATO and help you out with your requirements so basically you have that area covered.

I've got glasses too but it's a non-issue since they will test your visual capacity. As long as you check out 20/20 with the glasses your good. They will require you to secure an extra set of glasses prior to testing so make sure you have one.

@caloy and centurion

thanks for the info. im not very keen on taking a lasik operation for my eyes, im just not comfortable about subjecting my eyes to incisions. cost is a very important factor for me as well in determining which school i would go to and P1M is a huge amount that my family can save by going to omni instead of PAL(CIA is out of reach for me :p).

anyway about the eye test, im sure im not color blind but i dont know about the depth perception test. how is it done?

You'll look in a microscope like machine and you'll see set of letters or numbers each enclosed in a circle. You have to find which circle is floating. Technic is to refresh your eyes before looking for the next set. The liason in Omni can help you with all the details when you get your license.

puliszaido
 

St. Ex
Fatal in terms of financial damages........

no one has to die for an accident to become fatal. if that happened I would have used deadly as an adjective.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/...er_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif


Just to enlighten you regarding the terms used to officially describe air crash investigations, here are some definitions from the United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) which is the basis for the 'Nall Report' published yearly:

NTSB Definitions
Accident/Incident (NTSB Part 830)
The following definitions of terms used in this report have been
extracted from NTSB Part 830 of the Federal Aviation
Regulations. It is included in most commercially available
FAR/AIM digests and should be referenced for detailed information.
Aircraft Accident
An occurrence incidental to flight in which, “as a result of the
operation of an aircraft, any person (occupant or nonoccupant)
receives fatal or serious injury or any aircraft receives substantial
damage.”
• A fatal injury is one that results in death within 30 days of
the accident.
• A serious injury is one that:
(1) Requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing
within seven days from the date the injury was received.
(2) Results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of
fingers, toes, or nose).
(3) Involves lacerations that cause severe hemorrhages, nerve,
muscle, or tendon damage.
(4) Involves injury to any internal organ. Or
(5) Involves second- or third-degree burns, or any burns affecting
more than five percent of body surface.
• A minor injury is one that does not qualify as fatal or
serious.
• Destroyed means that an aircraft was demolished beyond
economical repair, i.e., substantially damaged to the extent that
it would be impracticable to rebuild it and return it to an airworthy
condition. (This may not coincide with the definition of
“total loss” for insurance purposes. Because of the variability of
insurance limits carried and such additional factors as time on
engines and propellers, and aircraft condition before an accident,
an aircraft may be “totaled” even though it is not considered
“destroyed” for NTSB accident-reporting purposes.)
• Substantial damage for accident reporting purposes does
not necessarily correlate with “substantial” in terms of financial
loss. Contrary to popular misconception, there is no dollar
value that defines “substantial” damage. Because of the high
cost of many repairs, large sums may be spent to repair damage
resulting from incidents that do not meet the NTSB definition
of substantial damage.
(1) Except as provided below, substantial damage means damage
or structural failure that adversely affects the structural
strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft,
and which would normally require major repair or replacement
of the affected part.
(2) Engine failure, damage limited to an engine, bent fairings
or cowling, dented skin, small puncture holes in the skin or fabric,
ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, damage to
landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or
wing tips are not considered “substantial damage.”
• Minor damage is any damage that does not qualify as substantial,
such as that in item (2) under substantial damage.

This is rather self explanatory and I hope this clarifies the issue for you and helps make you more knowledgeable than the local media.

enough of the crash and more info on omni please.

anyway, about the spl, when you ask for help from the liason officer, does this mean that you've committed to enrolling with them? how will the liason officer help you?

liaison officers merely stand in line for you so that you don't have to worry about going back and forth from place to place for requirements... all you need to do before you fly is to get on with your training and pass the NTC exams in QC for aircraft radio. just pay the applicable fees.

take note that our ATO to some extent is like applying for a driver's license with our LTO without a fixer. NTC is much more organized.

You can go to ATO by yourself and go to safety division and ask for an application form and the requirements. Just be early to avoid the Indian crowd. I think NTC (radio) license is only required when you apply for PPL. Applying in advance won't hurt.