@guiones

I've seen onlt one or two failures from foreigners so far on the 330 but don't nail me for this,I might have missed something.
From I guy I know he got unfairly busted on his checkride; and on his 2nd chance he admitted that he busted.Well,can understand that you perform different if you know that's your last chance and 4 eyes are watching you...

@shockwave

Concerning rated guys, I have seen courses with everbody passing on the 777( but all got their training "extended") but there were also courses with 5 failures out of 7.
Recommend to keep the door open to your previous job if you want to give it a try; keep in mind that the job with KAL is only yours when you passed the check ride.
Depends whom you get as an instructor; cantdance for instance got the shortest straw but nobody knows before.
Kind of lottery.

Funny
 

Somebody told me about a former 777 KAL TRE, one of that terrible, sadistic liar types. He's now flying as a contract pilot for a foreign company, along with others ex KAL foreign pilots.
They make jokes about this man present behavior, as sweet as a small pet...it's another person!:}

so typical
 

No notes and negative training.

I used to work with Korean air as F/O and everything HUMAN CARGO says reminds me of all the absurdities from typical Korean captains that I had to put up with; yelling, belittling, threatening and whatnot. It looks like that he had to go through a very typical Korean Air OE.

well said.

I showed up at the interview wearing a dark plaid suit with a small North Korean red lapel badge with the image of the dear leader Kim Jong-il. (Itś every NORTH Korean citizens duty to wear the badge over the left breast). The South Koreans jumped out of their seats screaming at me. I shouted back, "Commrades...LONG LIVE DEAR LEADER-KIM JONG-IL" . Then left. Never heard from them again.:ok:

I wonder why??????

i was considering korean and was wondering what the pass stats were for the 737. i hope its not the same as the 777! if anyone got the last couple of courses for all fleets itt would be helpful
thanks in advance:ok:

The Lottery
 

Gents, & ladies (But there are NO ladies at KAL).

I would rather drive a truck than risk my professional credentials and record on a LOTTERY.

'I don't tolerate fools regardless of rank.'
Loyalty stops short of incompetence.

Have a nice day ya all- enjoy the Kimchee!
:8

There are ladies flying for KAL, actually. All of them are F/O's, but some are getting quite close to being upgraded.

Pappy
 

Well said, man!
The right place to watch clowns in action is the circus!...

Caveat Emptor
 

Remarkable how some posters are attempting to shoot down those that wish to alert others of not just pitfalls, but gaping holes.

If a potential candidate for KAL wants to know how it all works up there before signing on (yes, we're talking about me here), he contacts the prospective crewing agency and asks to be put in contact with some of the fellas on the agency's books that're based in the port that'd be on the contract: Europe, the US, Australia etc.

Every single one of the blokes I contacted and spoke with at length told stories of equal measure to the one being thrown about by Catdance. One of the blokes spoke of how, during the KAL training, he was made to feel he'd never flown a plane before in his life. This after 15 years training at one of the world's oldest airlines. None of them had an axe to grind. They all work for KAL.

Who else does one poll for an insight into what goes on at KAL? We all ask questions before making a decision on something. The agency. Yes, you ask the agency, and there are some honest people in honest outfits out there, two of whom have three letters to their company's name. One of these companies may start with the letter C whilst another may start with the letter G.

Good guys, no doubt about it. But they're in the business of sending out pilots to an airline, not spoon feeding you into making a decision. Information is all you'll get, and it wasn't recommended to leave a good job for KAL. That may not be what everyone wants to hear, but it's what is passed on by 'honest' agents. You can rule Ri-----th out completely on this one!

Honest enough comment from some straight shooters; so why leave the good job you've got to go suck a lemon in Korea? Is commuting home 12 days a month THAT important?

Be warned.

4PW
 

Sumarizing your post-

"DO NOT CONSIDER LEAVING A REASONABLE JOB TO TAKE CHANCES AT KAL"

Too bloody right, mate.

Another Loss
 

Another one bit the dust today.
A great guy got along with everyone even the instructors.
Had no issues(That we were aware of) however he was sent home. This is becoming a strange but all too real seniero that all you Korean Wanna B's need to be aware of. Korean air is a very disfunctional Airline. And nothing here has any reference on reality or safety! And you put your life career family life and health all at risk should you decide that this ia the place for you.
Your Success is literally a lottery.
So "Go ahead make my day"
Det. Harry Gant.

Just curious, but does anybody have the pay and T&C's for the A330 FO postion.

Thanks.

Quote :
Korean air is a very disfunctional Airline. And nothing here has any reference on reality or safety! And you put your life career family life and health all at risk should you decide that this ia the place for you.
Your Success is literally a lottery.

Not forgetting putting your life and lives of family members at risk when you travel on the freebee tickets! Also when you deadhead home or for vacation. I have heard confirmed horror stories of very near CFIT at KTM, engine pod scrape at NRT, weird and dangerous reverse thrust manipulations on landing almost leading to " runaway " runway excursion, botched go-arounds, landing on taxiways, etc; just too many for any level of comfort!

bases
 

Hi all,

lets say that you join them but you are european, what about USA bases or Australia bases. Can you work in USA without green card or work in Australia for few years anway. What kind of contract or premission you need? Can anybody explain this.

thanks in advance
and good flights

Putting your life at risk whilst deadheading
 

This indeed happened a few times. Once out of SYD whilst deadheading, as the plane turned into runway 16R I spied an aircraft on tow crawling ever slowly about to cross ( west to east ) the edge of the runway. As the plane was aligned with the runway, I lost sight of it. I thought it was just a line up and wait instruction. However the crew did an immediate rolling takeoff ( they indeed had tower clearance to takeoff ); I told myself that the aircraft on tow must have held position very close to the runway. There was a more abrupt rotation than usual and I knew that something was wrong and I did not see any towing aircraft throughout the takeoff.

Later, when things settled on cruise and the F/O came back for his rest, I confronted him about the incident. He related that they were filing an airmiss report as the Tower had cleared them for takeoff and the towing aircraft was at fault. Fine....i then ask him if he had seen the towing aircraft close to the runway edge prior to takeoff, he said he did but didn't think it would encroach the active runway. I asked if he and the skipper had any doubts and reconfirmed with Tower to which he replied it didn't cross their minds that the towing aircraft would encroach as they already had takeoff clearance!!! Alas, doing things blindly and by rote is the Korean way!!

I emailed one of the contract agencies directly concerning the T&C's of the KAL A330 FO postition. I also included a summary of my flight times. Granted, they are probably pretty low for the position. Of 4700 hours in airline transport operations, 2700 is in the FRJ Dornier 328Jet aircraft. The other 2000 in in the EMB-145.

I got a response back saying that the 2700 does not count as it's not a commercial aircraft. I replied that it was in commercial operations engaged in flying on behalf of Delta Airlines as Delta Connection, as well as United Airlines as United Express. The reply I got back from that was that the Dornier time does not count as it is a turbo prop aircraft and not a turbo jet aircraft. I then replied informing then that it was INDEED a turbo jet aircraft, as well as included photos of the aircraft engaged in COMMERCIAL JET operations.

This whole exchange left me wondering EXACTLY how much the contract recruiters know about aircraft as well as the operations in which they are employed.

Dojetdriver

There are the good the bad and the downright ugly among the contract companies.

Personally, wouldn't touch :mad:ing IAC or Rishworths.

CCL and GAP should give you a fair shake.

Maui

I repeat my previous statement again !!!
Dojetdriver, take my advice seriously, PLEASE! Never ever, even consider going to Korea as a F/O. You will be done for the aviation business pretty soon after. Subservience is not for everyone, but overthere you are expected and required to do so. The american culture has nothing, I mean NOTHING to do with the korean one. Even the local F/Os love flying with the foreign captains. :ugh:

Thanks guys. It was more out of curiosity as to what the T&C's were. But yeah, after the exchange as well as what you guys have posted, I won't even give it a second thought.

I'm sure that it's been brought up before. But with some of the supposedly dodgy safety practices and the "pilot shortage" that they are facing, how can they attract qualified crews with the culture issues they have?

For what it is worth, I was with Korean for 6 years. For guys who managed to avoid tax, the money was fairly worthwhile when the greenback was strong. However, there were many cons; back in the early 2000s KAL was under close scrutiny by FAA, CASA, NZ CAA and many other regulatory bodies. As such crews were subjected many surprise flight checks, ramp checks, CASA and FAA audit checks, DOD audit checks etc which made life stressful especially when you get less than sterling performance from your Korean F/O's and augment captains. Things improved after the mid 2000s but with their recent close calls, I believe all the regulatory bodies are going to tighten the screws again.

Then as someone had mentioned, the nagging worries when you deadhead or when your families travel on KAL services. Add in the constant rechecks for trivial anomalies in your medical lab tests and their insistence that captains in the 50s remain spritely like spring chickens. life can be tumultuous roller coaster of swinging emotions. I read somewhere that one guy reckon he aged 3 times the rate of contemporaries in other outfits; it was also true in my case.

In a nutshell, I WILL NOT DO IT AGAIN. Having said that, the KAL deal was the best commuting contract. I just wish that all the recruitment agencies work out such commuting contracts with VN, Jet, AI, EY, EVA, CAL, JAL etc.

Quote:

---

Funny
Somebody told me about a former 777 KAL TRE, one of that terrible, sadistic liar types. He's now flying as a contract pilot for a foreign company, along with others ex KAL foreign pilots.
They make jokes about this man present behavior, as sweet as a small pet...it's another person!:}

---

Aha, that must be the silver hair fox, Sierra Papa November. He had his days and for a time was the Director of Training at KAL flight Ops...what a joke!
His loud boast was that he failed a few ex Malaysian 777 skippers during their pre employment checks; his lament, the foreign deputy VP flight standards reversed the results and ordered passes for those boys! He must have been mighty peeved! Those days of high drama in KAL sim and OE training! One must have a very high degree of self hate to seek employment in KAL!

Yes!
 

The source confirmed this is the a..hole...
But now is using a black stuff to disguise the silver hair.

Whats the Latest with these Clowns this week!
 

Been out earning my keep this week so i havent been paying attention.
Whats the score this week?
How many more poor SOB have they sent home this week.? And more importantly, How many fools continue to Run towards the light at the end of the tunnel, after it has blown its horn!!!!!:ugh:
cheers!

Putting the Saddle on the wrong Horse. Information is liable, you can rest assured about that.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

Putting the Saddle on the wrong Horse. Korean Air Interviews
 

Well Here's some more Liable for you then!!!!!

Dear Captain's
Let see how many More clowns jump to this exercise again.......

This exercise seems to be coming a Turkey shoot for the Koreans now and they take pleasure in it........ :D
They will accept you because they know you can fly, you go out buy your
"T ripple 7" type rating, quit your really good job and come to training only to have some crazy Kimchi smelling clown Call you "a bad Pilot" cancel your contract and send you home. That is in reality what is going on.
AND, if you make it thru the training it has nothing to do with your ability but strickly your luck of the draw on getting your LIP/LCP.
Remember The Koreans only care about one thing "POM, FOM" The have taken 3 years from the time that started the academy to study and memorize this stupidity, and the know you wont be able to learn this habble Babble in three months, and that's where the will nail you!

So when you have spare day off between your interview days here, come down to the crew lounge for happy hour (between 6.00pm and 7.30pm) and you can confirm for your self that not everything said here is Liableous

So if youre interested , Read the info below :


Korean Air has announced the dates of the next screenings:



Session 1: 16th - 20th June 2008



Session 2: 23rd - 27th June 2008



If you are available to attend one of these Screenings please advise me of your preferred session and provide me with the documents below by 11 May 2008.



1. The attached application form



2. The completed questionnaire (attached)



3. Scanned copy of your CV with photo (template attached for reference)



4. Scanned copy of your passport



5. Scanned copy of your licence and rating



6. If you require a Visa to enter Seoul please ensure you advise us at the time of application.



If you have already made an application for this position at Korean Air, please advise which screening you would prefer to attend in the event you are accepted for screening by Korean Air.



Great news for Brazilian pilots - Korean Air opening flights to Sao Paulo from 5th June 2008!!!



Please note:

1. There is no guarantee you will be accepted for a screening due to the high number of applicants.

2. “Cruise Captains” or “Relief Captains” will not be considered for Captain positions however cruise/relief captains are welcome to apply for other FO positions.



If you advise us that you are available to Screen, Korean Air ask that you clear your schedule in advance, allowing travel time before and after the dates provided. If you are accepted for a screening it is highly recommended that you do all you can to ensure you are able to attend.



Note that if you satisfy the relevant qualifications and your application is submitted, it will take approximately 2 weeks for Korean Air to advise whether you have been accepted for the Screening.

Cheers;
Jim.
P.s see you'll at the Crew Lounge.............. Will keep the light on for you!

Side business?

Interesting, former Lebanese PP adviser set up GAP. The current Lebanese adviser is going to......................read the tea leaves!

I Passed on Korean Air Interview
 

After reading some of the posts on the Korean Air training troubles I turned down the interview. I am not going to even consider places to work that treat pilots in such a poor way.

I had some other information as well as reading some of the posts here:=.

Korean Air forget it.....!!!!

KAL
 

Hi everyone

I just sent the documents for joining a selection process for driving the 330 with KAL.I am a 320 F/O
I cannot understand why everyone here tells only about negative experiences as well as those about Qatar and all the major....including CX
Is life so bad down there?O
They give you the choice of the base...looks great....
Maybe someone wants to keep good pilots away....

Ok doctor,let's assume you are good pilot, and I'm not or the others. Apart of that statement, I worked in Korea for 5+ bloody years........as a Captain. So, trust me I know what I'm talking about. Once again read my previous coment, you are only F/O. My 2000 interview saw 24 Captains with only 5 survived. That was massacre. You have no idea what you are about to embark on. The ride is gonna be bumpy, but that's your life, so .....enjoy it ! :ugh:

Thks for suggestion CPTBee

i was just thinking about joining KAL because of the bases.Having the chance to choose your base and going to live in the U.S.A should be great to me,you could work far away from mad KAL Captains.I suppose that places like sfo,lax and jfk are full of expat CPT and crews...life should be easy isn't it?Where do you perform your line training and type rating?

Thanks in advance for your opinion

Doc

1) Are you a U.S. citizen or Green Card holder. If not, how can you "live" in the USA?

2) The A330 does not serve any of those bases. All of your flying starts and ends in Seoul. You would fly with some expat Captains, but you would also fly with Korean Captains.

Trust Captain Bee, he is only trying to give a friendly warning. I too, have often told people never to go to Asia as a First Officer if you will be flying with the locals. Places like Cathay and Dragonair are fine because they have a western culture, but most of the others would be quite difficult at times.



Typhoonpilot

Dr Ecam,
Asia is a wonderful place to work....Asian are nice people and captains are pleasant if you know how to show respect to them ( if you are not a big mouth , and can stay at your place). Its the same everywhere in the world...If you follow the rules you will have no pb. Just keep quite and do your job properly . In Europe its exactely the same . I personnaly saw some european captains treating badly some FOs with no good reasons...So its not an asian particularity. Its even better in Asia because if you are respectful, they will respect you...which is not always true in western countries. Life is much better in Asia: cheaper, more beautiful ladies, less delinquence. Btw, i have no experience of American companies , looks like an heaven there!...

CTM ,Asia is a huge continent if you don't mind, first. Hong Kong, Singapore is one, China, Korea, Japan another, and than 30-40 more countries. Second ,how many years do you personally have in Korea? Third, are you are asian ? No disrespect in any way !!!

CTM:

Asia, in the context of this thread, refers specifically to Korea and more generally to Japan and China. Asia, as referred to in Dubai often means India and Pakistan, i.e. South Asian. There is a tremendous difference.

TP

Respect
 

Mr. CTM1394
The dictionary defines "respect" as....: esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability:
And... :deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment:

In In Korean and Japan, Asian people hide behind this "Confucian theorem" as a means to hide there true inadequacies, and racial biases.
They use this as a means to insulate themselves from true expression, and their lack of proper interpersonal skills, insecurity and lack of the command of the English language. Most Asian people are very nice and accepting, but behind the door have no qualms to lie change records or distort the truth in order to make make themselves look good when faced with the prospect of losing face because they were ignorant of facts or did not possess the necessary knowledge or skill to be to be in the position they hold.
Generally in Asia especially in Korea their pride robs them of the reality of the confidence of where they are or who they are, and when they see a westerner, their insecurity is so apparent that, the only protection they have is to "withdraw" behind the facade of the 'respect' that their social Confucian order.
Asia is a great place to visit, and to be a tourist, but to go there for an extended period of time or to work is a different thing. The irony is that in
order for them to prosper the need "US" westerners but the older heads continue to perpetrate these old ways with out any lack of consideration for cultural diversity.

"Asian are nice people and captains are pleasant if you know how to show respect to them ( if you are not a big mouth , and can stay at your place)"[/I]. Your quotation is very true if your are an Asian.
Maybe you should take a few lessons for your Malaysian and Thai brothers and sisters that you work alongside, see how humble and friendly they are and how much more friendly with westerners.
There is an old saying that "if you want friends then be a friend" with Great position comes great humility" or in another way "THE HIGHER UP YOU GO THE HARDER YOU FALL'!
Just my two cents!!
ghb

Are the same things happening on the 747-400 program? Or is this basically a 777 issue? I've talked to several -400 guys and they seem to like it.

Anyone know the truth?

It's fine on the 744