Asian Express Pilots
 

So guys, what do you think of the email TF sent?

Recession? Well anyone knows its imminent knowing that any economy does go through cycles and it does look like it's due in soon but I don't see why it's coming this year. Historically an election year doesn't coincide with a recession. Maybe he heard EY is coming over and he's worried?

And that's the 3rd time he has cancelled his briefing with the Indonesian captains. What's going on with the guy? Ran out of ideas or news on how to please them? He better do something if only a few gets the PR he promised as a lot of them will be free to leave.

The last time recruitment roadshow opens its circus tent in Malaysia TF came and chase away all his pilots..halau balik rumah, macam seorang ayah halau seorang anaknya balik...is that true? So you guys who'd been contemplating a move to EY might want to do it privately in hotel room...

TF is just getting too caught up in the money loads he's getting that he's practically got no bloody time to care about anything else around him. Heard the guy is acting in that new movie CUCI. havent watched it yet but imagine the "extra" cash he'll be getting while the rest of us still hold up our bowls to him and say "Please sir, may i have some more?"

:mad:

Recessions come and go. And its not like in the past 6 years or whatever air asia has never been through one. He's just starting early and creating a false scenario for us to justify his struggles and why he would be unable to produce pay increments and bonus pay-outs at the end of the fiscal year. thats it. simple as that. I totally agree on the idonesian pilots part though. what the hell is he thinking. If he pisses them off,the ENTIRE COMMUNITY will pack and leave. I personally know that these guys have job offers from all over the globe,but are just serving out their bond and gaining hours. but piss them off,and trust me,they shall "cabut". not one,but the whole jing bang.

If i was a conspiracy theory expert, i would also say that another reason that stupid email was sent out is to justify the recent follow up email by PD regarding the fact that the poor cadets have gotta repay they entire MFA training bond! I have had a look at this and the scales are RIDICULOUS!!!! Its either a bond,in which you serve the company for a period of time,or payment...which generally makes the agreement not far more different than taking a bank loan.
NOT A BOND AND PAYMENT!

what a scam! Does TF think he still works at warner? because you only treat musicians like this,not pilots. If u cut an album for a musician,he pays you back. my dear TF,this aint the same for pilots:=

Maybe you guys should start a petition or something against something like this? not sure how much difference it would make though looking at the way they treat fo's. stupid

And there's no maybe's here. TF is not stupid. I guarantee he knows that there's gonna be a so called "AL-QAEDA" invasion to malaysia to suck grab all his pilots,but whether he keeps his pilots here by increasing the pay or by squeezing us dry,overloading with bonds and blackmail remains to be seen

But with kiss ass pilot-informers he has like the great CM:yuk:, im sure he knows.

Chrome,
I hear Mandala is considering those Indo Captains to move to them for 100K USD transfer fees... whether that will actually happen or not, I dunno.

PK-KAR

100k USD transfer fees? as in if they join the get the cash? wow thats fantastic.

any idea how much they'll roll in per month?

The thing is quite a few indonesian pilots dislike the working environment in indonesia which is why they run here. so not sure what kinda money would actually be enough to make them go back there.

One thing i am sure off though is that the amount of curses TF gets everyday from 98% of his staff,he's gonna feel it one day thats for sure

its confirmed.

Mandala is offering 100K uSD and Lion air is offering 65k USD for transfer fees. geez.

the whole world is throwing out money for pilots and air asia is the only one deducting!

Did any of you guys out there hear about the rumour that the captains pay is gonna further increase by another 4k? In their basic pay?

what about co-pilots??????:ugh:

420,
Mandala is offering 100k USD for rated Captains, and I hear about 40K for rated F/Os... for the 320s.

Lion is offering 50-65K for Garuda captains rated on 734s and 65 - 75k for NG rated captains. For F/Os you can expect half the amount. The captains non Garuda can expect up to 50K transfers at the moment.

How much do they get a month?
Currently is about 3K a month net of taxes all in. Current discussions are going to 4K to 5K at some instances... with those transfer fees still being dished out.

F/Os currently are at about 2K after taxes all in, some at 2.5... talk is that they'll go up to 3 soon... but that's still talk.

Mandala seems to be the darling at the moment with working conditions that are heavenly comparing with Lion.

PK-KAR

thanks for the info pak,

it looks good for the captains but as for the Fo's,its only slightly more compared to what is offered in AK. around one thousand more ringgit approx. But i've heard this from quite a number of my indon collegues that the power distance in indonesia between capt and Fo is very very high hence the pay scale difference. and promotion from right to left takes ages. so i guess for the Fo's,its best they stay out of this mandala deal but looks great for the captains.

Even though Indonesia is a wonderful country with generally very nice people, unfortunately no Malaysian pilots would go there simply because of Indonesia's not so good track record in aviation safety. Corruption is also perceived to be a menace there. I for one won't move there just for the sake of money. Imagine you hear Indonesian pilots flying everywhere nowadays (Macau, Japan, Thailand etc) and they themselves won't return home. Indonesia economy is forecasted to improve in 2008 so that's something to look forward to. Better economy means more traffic for everyone. I just hope that the DGCA takes real responsibility in improving safety.

TF has invited all AK pilots for new year dinner "get together" :rolleyes:

I haven't heard of him doing something like this before. Come on guys, open your eyes. It's an attempt to bribe us into feeling good about the company and make us understand the importance of his efforts to further enhance AirAsia's competitiveness bla bla. But the company is doing good and we love the company. We've heard that all before. It's not treating us like professional pilots that makes us unhappy now. Screwing around with his speculative fuel hedging policy has also lost AirAsia millions of ringgit. Millions that he religiously tells us to save (by saving fuel, freezing wage increases, ignoring requests for improved compensation packages, putting code readers on xerox machines, cutting down on annual coupon travel etc). I for one am not amused. Now my share value is back to what it was months ago. Why did we work so hard for the past year? He screwed up and don't even have the balls to explain it to us and admit that he did something wrong as a courtesy.

Guys, snub the dinner like he snubbed our application for better compensation and improved working conditions. Only this way will he see that he really needs to do something real to retain his better pilots. It would take more than a plate of nasi goreng, chicken wings and beer to make things right. Let CM and the usual band of yes men be there. I'm not going to be bought.

I hear those who want to come back, but they want a good place to work more than the money. Unless they get that, they'll stay abroad.

Better economy means more traffic, but it also means more problems... let's hope it'll be a net gain instead of a zero gain trade off!

420, promotion from right to left in terms of period really does depend on which company you work for and the crewing situation.

PK-KAR

AK Pilots, what are you waiting for? The earlier you bailout, the faster you get your widebody command in sand dune and more money you will make !!! My buddy who bailed out from AK and joined EK about 2.5 yrs ago is doing his command assessment now on B777 and Gods willing, he should start his command training this summer.:ok:

Asian Express Pilots...

Glad That You Guys Finally Can See What Kind Of Blood Sucker Tf Is.

He Has A Bad Track Record If You Speaks To Guys Who He Has Worked With Before.

If You Hear To Interviews And Talk He Has Given Its All Packs Of Lies And He Is As Bad As Any Politician..

My Guess. Airasia Will Be The 1st First Airline To Cut The Salaries In The Name Of Recession So Tf Can Make More Money..

Tf Is Just Another Cheapskate Blood Sucking Conman...

Come On Guys Move On..airasia Is Not Worth Your Loyalty..

Move To An Airline And Leave The Red Bus Company...

Leave The Air Force Guys And Their 5 Star General(tf) To Sail This Sinking Ship...good Luck

QAR, could not agree with you more.Guys start looking at the bigger picture.

There's a rumor going around that AirAsia is getting the A380. Not sure what to think about that.

i heard that too. tf is making some major big announcement tomorrow at the singapore inaugural and i've heard this is why.

by the way,that get together dinner was "postponed":D

wahh, they want to follow cebu pacific footstep...

huh?cebu buying 380's??

that's what they're planning. It's just rumour. Same within AK it's just a rumour. For more info you can visit their thread...

Air Asia is NOT a sinking ship. They will continue to do well and expand and develop well in to the future. It's a good Low Cost Carrier business.

For the pilots working there there IS a bigger picture out there. And no doubt those with ambition will move on to major carriers. There's more to flying life than an LCC experience and lifestyle.

Make no mistake AK is a great stepping stone. It deserves your best while you are a Pilot there because remember YOU are a Professional. However you don’t have to remain quiet to the on going issues there and should fight for your market value. I am in an airline where F/O's are treated with the utmost respect and worth. 420's post on another thread about the F/O being the one to save the day with any Capt Incap is spot on. Not that that should be the only reason of course. Both guys up there in front are operating the aircraft with big responsibility. Of course the Capt being the most experienced and ultimately responsible merits higher pay, but the gap should not be so ridiculously wide.

Unfortunately we also have to see it from the other side, and Tony F. is after all a business man (with politician sprinkles) and he pays F/O's what he does simply bacause he can.

Regarding the dinner get together, I am not suprised it has been cancelled. No one in my intermediate circle said they care about it. Local captains are just tired of hearing the same motivational/inspiring talk and jokes over and over again. The Indonesians are fed up with the prolonged and stalled PR issue. I'm not sure if the cadet group took up the invitation after the suprise 'new year gift' last week. Everyone just doesn't care about any new year dinner. I don't think there was enough 'quorum' for it to be held at such a classy place. Or maybe we AirAsia pilots are just not used to going to those swanky Bangsar places Tony. We can't afford it. Not all of your employees own pubs or are descendents of pilots.

AirAsia moving to Subang? :hmm:

TF.. hmmm just another tricky indian fella... haha

So whats the big news ?? a380 ? Subang ? pay rise ?? or just half day off
Haha dream about the impossible

Full loads up and down for AK123/124. It's quite a feat in getting the route really so good job to everyone. Did anyone hear any big announcement yesterday or was the email about some big news all hogwash? I couldn't be bothered and waste my petrol to come. Please enlighten us of any news.

To those interested, go check out the EY pilot assessment in KUL. Or if you fear any backlash, just go to the other cities.

Traders Hotel
Kuala Lumpur City Center
50088 Kuala Lumpur
7th February 2008/ 10am - 6pm
8th February 2008/ 10am - 2pm

Full schedule of the roadshow.

Cant Understand Chrome Said Why There Should There Be A Backlash For Going To An Ek Talk.

I Heard That Tf Does A Scare And Fear Approach To His Pilots.

Come On Tf And Airasia Management Should Realise That Ak Cant Compare On Any Fronts With Emirates,eitihad,qatar,cathay Or Even Vietnam....when It Comes To Salary,benefits And On Job Conditions..

The Way I Think A Ambitious Young Pilot In Airasia Will Always Have A Dream To Fly For A Proper Airline With A Good Career..ak Management Have To Accept This Fact..

Somebody Should Tell Tf Malaysia Is Not A 3rd World Communist Country,where You Can Treathen Your Pilots For Going For A Talk Or Planning To Leave Ak...

Come On Guys If You Can Afford The Cut Throat Bond That Tf Has Put On You..just Pay That And Walk Out His So Called Office With No Doors In Style!!!

Hi guys, proper Queen's English please! Manglish....very painful to the eyes besides making us Malaysian professional pilots look like riffraffs in this public forum. TF...ticky fella, ha ha ha!

ok guys first and foremost,

1. Air Asia is NOT a sinking ship. totally agree with "std". its just the loads and loads of unfairness thats going on is becoming absolutely unbearable and even captains are feeling uncomfortable despite the high-ER pay.

2. well as for the big news,tf declared the 1st of feb a public holiday for all ak staff (office guys). hip hip hooray!:rolleyes: Dual input must be an ak pilot haha. and so called hinted about bonus pay out this year...if and when that happens:mad:

3.as for tf doing the scare and fear approach,its true as i have heard about it too...and yes its totally uncalled for. ppl have the right to choose! pilots are the product and he is the consumer.
my advice to pilots is this based on the example above...especially the co-pilots...

you guys know what you signed for now as unhappy the "new years gift" was,the fact is you guys signed it. of course the bonds are heavy and its a huge weight on those who wanna leave but it should never be a barrier. as long as you are in AK,honour your contract and be a proffesional when it comes to work. Improve yourself as a product,because as the product's quality increases,the demand increases,hence the price tag on it. and then companies all over the world will pay big money to get you,maybe even your bond. but for this to happen,professionalism has to be there. now when to fight back,and if you do please do it smartly and not like the PHD holder who talks a lot,but think things through rationally. and there are times where you should know to keep your mouth shut and play yr cards right and work on that poker face so no one can guess yr hand.
And when you do leave,even though this stupid TF and gang has a flair for holding back pay the very second you submit yr resignation letter,bite the bullet and leave in peace,as it only makes you a better person and improves yourself as a "product" as ppl shall remember you, and of course rubs **** on TF's face as of course he is expecting you to rebel.

But never allow yourselves to be pushed around.:=
If you do this,you shall succeed.


PS: The indons have got their PR's. after 5 bloody years! they got it yesterday...... and the roadshows are around the corner........


IRONIC????:hmm:

Well said 420!! Could't disagree at all. :ok:

As pilots maintain professionalism and enhance your aviation knowledge from all the retired heavy duty Captains you fly with and NOT only be used by them to for the routine. As for tf...:} he's used to achieving glamy in the media etc and great for writing letters to new employers who may be his competitatives, holding back salaries, EPF, tax money and all the nonsense. := For him its a buisness world..:rolleyes:

Lastly not last...FLY SAFE!!

While tf is doing what he need to do...to keep his pilots :} heard his protergie Chandra Mohan now is having parties encouraging guys to leave AK. What a turn around..:D Well done ex - DFO!!!

redress
 

Guys



I would like to change the phrase "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys" (not true if you work for airasia...some great guys working here) " You pay peanuts, you slave labour (child labour) in some cases.

Fruitless :
its spelt "PROTEGE" !:ok:
Charlie Mike and TF have the same damn attitude. except for the bonus fact which is charlie mike is the biggest ass kisser known to man has this classy impression of himself which makes others wanna :yuk:

Jetjockey:

Well...i wouldn't say NO monkeys...would you? heheh. but definitely many talented ppl here. and slavery is true. but then again i feel its a point of view actually. we can always turn it around on TF. Use this "slavery" that he's putting us through for the best and gain all the valuable experience needed and dump him at his peak and leave. that would leave him in a total slump!:D

Well it looks like that is going to happen very very soon 420. I've heard the stories and strong rumors the past few days. This week there will be visitors to Traders Hotel. And the ones leaving ARE leaving. Maybe the number won't be in the dozens but it WILL affect operations. Sad thing is it's the better ones that are going. And I thought it was AirAsia's goal to have high standard pilots to train more high standard pilots in our world class Academy?

Some of us have seen this happen before. Let's welcome back delays and retimes caused by insufficient crew, which will reduce guest perception of good service, lower satisfaction and ultimately reduce demand. You wanna save some money did you Tony? Let's see what reduced load factor brings to the balance sheet, share price and our market capitalization. And let's see what this situation will do to the ones that actually was stupid enough to be loyal and stayed but left with having to do extra sectors, experiencing rampant last minute duty changes and getting minimum rest. You can't continue treating professional pilots like this.

Last time this happened AirAsia wasn't publicly owned. Last time this happened company only had the JHB base to worry about. Last time this happened AirAsia has less than 12 aircraft. All 3 bases are on ngam-ngam crew as it is. Don't blame the recession, high oil prices, MAS, SIA, the middle management or someone's grandma. It was your doing.

I Have Always Said This. What Tf Is Doing To His Pilots Is Modern Day Slavery At The Highest Order.

To Me For What Airasia Is Paying And How Tf Treats His Pilots The Turnover Or Pilots Leaving Airasia Is Still Low Compared To Others.

I Think Tf Is Smarts He Pays His Pilots Low Salary..and Puts Huge And Long Bonds..us$50k/5yrs For Type And Us$100k/15yr For Cadets (please Correct This Figure If Im Wrong).

So How Is A Fo Who Earn Us$2000 On A Good Month Can Afford $us50/100k Bond???????????
So Tf Has Got You By Your b@lls..

And The Best Part Tf Is Doing All This To His Pilots When The Times Are Good For Pilots..can You Imagine What Tf Will Do If The Times Are Bad??

And Most Airlines In The Middle East Will Want You To Settle Your Ak Bond Before You Join Them

So I Hope You Guys Can Teach Tf A Lesson..that He Shouldnt Treat Pilots Like The Way He Has Been Doing Over The Years..

So Come On Guys Teach This Bloodsucking Cheapskate A Lesson

Well said QAR!! :D What you have said make sense ..BUT how would you suggest ... doing ...what to Tf ??? :ugh:

As we are talking here mainly on the relationship between T.F. and his pilot group, my question is a bit of topic. But, as AK pilots are on this forum, maybe one can answer this.
As per yesterday AirAsiaX is flying 5 times weekly to Hangzhou and were already flying 4 times weekly to Brisbane.
As they only have one aircraft, A330, they utilize it well over 400 hours per month.
Sure it can be done and they are doing it, but, with one aircraft only,
one snag, weather, tech, and the whole schedule goes to pieces for some time.
What would be the back up plan here, or is it gambling?
Just curious.

Regards
E.B.

Easy buddy, its called RETIMED ..................:ugh:

It's not a big term really as it's done elsewhere in the world. How do you think they'd have thought of it? Retimes (if it happens) is a price for low cost travelling but they'll get you to your destination safely.

Retimed
 

Always on time after retimed.... No more delay.... :yuk:
As for TF:mad:, he should feel the pain very soon.. Crossed your fingers mates..

fruitless i cant anwser your question...

how to teach tf a lesson im not sure..you have to ask ak pilots that are working there now..

what puzzles me is that tf goes around the world sponsoring man utd, EPL refs and F1 team which im sure is worth millionds of dollars..i know its all in the name of brand awareness...

but come on mate charity begins at home..you go half way around the world sponsoring millions of pounds on a football team which doesnt fly your airlines...who man utd fly on their tour to asia..???????...but when its comes to his pilots he he will squeeze them to their last cent...

to me yes airasia is a success in bussiness terms...but in term of aviation and pilots what tf has done is utter shambles..i rest my case

Yes, retimed, seen it happen. But that was not my curiosity.
As it is a long haul low cost operation as advertised, what happens with the passengers when, for example, the aircraft shows up 8 hours late into K.L. and same aircraft departs for Brisbane and arrives there 8 hours late etc.Ripple effect. Will the waiting passengers being left on their own, send home, sent to hotel, food and drinks? Who will pay for the inconveniences, AKX? From what budget, its low cost you know. Or the pax themselves, they will not be happy campers in that scenario and the sweet smell of low price will be long forgotten as the bitterness of dissapointment remains long thereafter.
You can retime all you want on short sectors but on long haul it will have more serious consequences, money wise, and using your one and only aircraft to the max? I think its a cunning plan, daring.

Hence my curiosity.

Regards
E.B.