R/T status in KL FIR
 

The ATC Union is conducting the reception status of our transmitters within the KL FIR. We would like to have your Very Honest Opinions about our radio transmissions. We would be very happy to receive your feedbacks/suggestions with regards to this matter. The ATCers have been voicing their unhappiness about the reception status by pilots to the Union. We are currently using 132.8/132.6/123.75/124.2/119.45/126.1/126.0/118.5/118.8/118.2/121.9 etc.These are some of the freq available at Subang and KLIA. This does not include the other stations. If u do have a problem, do let us know. Thank you all for your very honest answers. Secretary, Civil Aviation Air Traffic Control Services Union.

:{

Thanks for allowing us to input on ATC RT. I do find when flying eastbound that 132.6 transmission gets really bad. It may be the range or the position of the antennae but anytime the aircraft goes above FL150 to FL250, transmissions become grabbled and sketchy, sometimes even cutting off altogether.

Regards
Jolly

For the past 4 months, I could hardly hear Lumper Control on 132.6 on airway M751 from PK to about 60 NM north of PK up to FL370. Sometimes, KL ATC transmission keep cutting in and out, and many times just a complete cut off. All other areas on 132.6 (except east of the Malaysian peninsula) and 132.8 sounds just fine to me.

third attempt at a reply. not so brilliant...:O

would the atc union kindly look into the range of the kul atis towards the south china sea...seems really weak or blocked.
find many guys resulting to requesting runway in use from sin atc.

may i also urge the controllers to slow down the speed of delivery, find it pretty hard to comprehend at times, especially when it gets busy, resulting in numerous unnecessary and tedious repetitions of clearances. ironically that's the worst time to have to repeat anything. mind you, i'm local.... :p

mobile phone interference can be experienced on 132.8 as we fly up north, speech does not sound like that of local language. personally suspect it sounds indonesian...can't be sure though, dialling,ring and busy tone can be made out pretty clearly. however it is not experienced all the time. when it does happen, it significantly reduces quality/readability of controllers transmissions.

hope to be of constructive info....

KUL ATC needs to be more professional in their RT transmission.
I do not think that it is poor equipment that is at fault but poor proper usage, that is the root cause.

On 132.8 recently had what sounded like DTMF tones, someone using equipment like a radio phone patch. Brought it to the attention of controller, said telecom people had been informed for some time about this problem.

KL has some of the best controllers about when weather avoidance is required.

Sometimes a little trigger happy, not letting pilots to finish off reading back a clearance or instruction, blocking the frequency. Some of the speed reductions requested are unrealistic for arrival into WMKK.

As previously mentioned, VHF volmet stations on high terrain on to the north and south would help.

Some of the controllers may have their mics to close to their mouth. Their transmission come through with the whoosing sound of the air coming out from their mouth or nose which made their speech rather like a back ground noise. If they can place their mics about 2 cm from the corner of their mouth and not directly infront of it.

ATIS on 126.45 is rather short range from the east. The SZB ATIS is alot more range.

It seems that sector and approach controller are reluctant to give in to request many times. This makes them look like they are not competant at it. Eg:

a/c: "Malaysian xxx request heading xxx due weather"
atc: " stby"

silence for a long time after that.

Perhaps this is better,

a/c:" Malaysian xxx request heading xxx due weather"
atc:" Malaysian xxx,expect short delay due traffic"

At least the pilots know why.

Also, most controller didn't state the a/c call sign clear enough and it has to be stated in each and every transmission to avoid confussion. Without the confussion,less transmission is needed.

Not matter what, you guys are alot better than what the newspapar said.


:ok:

Ive been flying around this region for a while now, and lately 132.8 has been having prob's with loads of background noise. It became so irritating that i told the controller off to get him to do something bout it. As for the other freq's, they have been ok.
132.6 experiences congestion during certain times of the day, its mainly due to the short area of control that they have between 14000ft and PK.
Over east malaysia the coverage is preety good.

At one time pilots used to sit down and talk to atc quite a bit, but i think it should be started again. If ure from Atc, why dont u get in touch with MAPA and maybe they could work out a dialogue. At the same time get jump seat travel to singapore and honkong to see how the guys do it there. Atc kul could learn alot from them.

Im sure your president Encik Remli could get in touch with them.

ciao.

I'm a daily customer of KL ATC services and like to express my positive experience. Lumpur is one of the best services in the region. I never have problems with them, they are very clear to understand and technically the connection is working.

I fly out of SIN to Thai and Indonesian destinations.

Dani

R/T in KUL
 

The Rage_ tks old chap 4 the suggestion.SIN and HKG are out of our Fam Flt Destinations. DCA approves only to JKT,Baali,BKK,Ho Chi Min n Manila. Fellas who have been havent really learnt anything new to improve R/T since these destinations don't really seem to offer much as far as ATC is concerned. Once again tks 4 your input. will do something about that. cheers. Happy New Year to all.:ok:

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

As a low level chappie I would just like to say that reception on Lumpur Information (126.1) in the KL area can be very difficult with a loud background howl. It occurs to me that this may be because there is a repeater north and one south but that they interfere with each other in the middle, i.e around KL. Anyway whatever the reason reception seems to improve as one moves away from KL.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

dear veloo

just out of curiosity, why is sin and hkg not approved?
i'm not surprised to hear that the fellas who've done the fam flights have not found it useful.....it's probably BECAUSE flights into sin and hkg are not done. i personally think it should be done into these two airports only. the others that you mentioned would only be good for self consolation purposes.

but seriously, i really think sin and hkg would be the two best destinations for fam flights, as i think these two would make the trip worth it.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

Hi Jetrat, No idea man. Sometime ago MAS approved Munich,Sydney,HKG,Seoul n one more that I can't remember(probably Narita). All these were shelved(No idea by whom). Later regional destinations were approved but Sin n Hkg were out. What we ATCers at Lumpur really need to see n learn is peak hour management at airports where dual runway ops are practised. At least we don't have to keep them long on ground waiting for their departure. There is also too much of enroute holding during peak hours which is stressful for both pilot n controller. KLIA was designed to handle simoultaneous departure n landings. Years have passed by and we are still holding acft enroute b4 commencing approach into KLIA. Currently we are handling about 1K flts a day. I can't imagine if the flts go up to 2K a day. With the kind of reception we get on our side, any destination for a FAM Flt is a real welcome man. tks 4 tolerating us. cheers.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

veloo,

likewise with the tolerating thing. by the way, mh 737 is transitioning to new procedures at the moment, which means it'll most likely take a little longer for the guys to start taxying.(minimal though). may be relevant to the ground contollers, probably more so for stations like kch and bki for example, in case they're wondering.

how bout encouraging more controllers to this thread to share thoughts, since the teh tarik stall will be difficult to arrange.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

I have actually posted this website address at the ATCC Subang. Some of my colleagues at KLIA are also surfing this website. As a matter of fact I was introduced to this website by a B777 Capt. I have learnt a lot since then and has actually helped me to provide a better ATC service. This taxyiing thing for the MH 737's is something new. Let me know more about it so that I can pass it on to KLIA and other airports. I have been on board the 737's about 6 times last month and the intercom from the cockpit to the cabin isn't very clear. As an Air Traffic Controller I can understand every bit but unfortunately my fellow pax were wondering what the cockpit crew was telling. It was muffled at times. Maybe your avionics people should take a look into it. It would be good to check out the reception status by asking the cabin crew whether the transmission was clear. Just a suggestion. (Are we still not allowed into the cockpit??) In a recent meeting with MAS, we were told about a new procedure that MAS is coming up within the next few months...something called Flight Following. This is especially for the wide body. Sounds good for ATCers manning the Clearence Delivery at Subang. Help us to help u guys.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

veloo,

did you mean the public address systen in the aeroplane? yes yes have to agree. it's a constant point in our operations. i too have heard many that i thought were less than impressive, anyways, far too many factors to this problem. yes, the policy at the moment is still no jumpseat, however i should think that it can be arranged for atc guys if done officially.

probably a call to the correct people would take care of that.

the mh 737 thing mainly now involves doing all take off preparations BEFORE taxy, eg. flaps selection, flight control checks, which would have been done during taxy previously. so maybe a minute or two extra till the onset of requesting taxy clearance.


.

Re: R/T in KUL
 

To look better, compare yourself with those worse off:p Wonder if SIN is approved as well.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

Yes it's the public address system. I was on the A330 last month and the transmission was clear. It's the 737's. To say all 737's will be a sweeping statement but it so happened that the ones I was on board were not clear. A bit muffled. The idea is to get the message clearly over to the cabin. Pax cud only understand some words. Maybe u guys cud look into it. Tks too for the checks b4 taxyiing. This will keep the ground controllers BP at the same level. Will 4ward this to the Tower guys. Appreciate ur valuable inputs. About the cockpit visit: it's OK man..let the company make it's decision. I don't want to impose on the cockpit crew...but it will definitely help both parties if this policy is lifted..maybe u can speak to the right person n see what can be done BUT don't go out of your way. You guys are always welcome to the ATCC at Subang at any time. Let me now early. My No is 016-2312519

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

Veloo,

Is there a must to space a/cs 7 to 8nm on the approach? We are quite used to 4 to 5nm apart as 1 cleared the 1st high speed taxiway,the other is 1/2nm out and get the clearence to land in US. I find that reducing the space can put more plane on the ground faster.Whenever I catch up the a/c in front to about 6nm the tower will instruct to slow down in KLIA.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

7 - 8 nm spacing
Our current procedures require the following:
a) radar separation of 5 nm or wake turbulence separation whichever is greater; and
b) when the first aircraft crosses the threshold, the succeeding aircraft must be at least 5 nm from the threshold.
There are others in place when visibility goes below a certain value and so on but the above two are most significant.
When KLIA is operating on a segregated mode, most controllers aim for a 6-7 nm spacing on finals to achieve the requirements of para (b). Some do actually try and actually achieve a tighter spacing when wake turbulence is not an issue.
With traffic levels going up, it is only a matter of time that the spacing requirements will be reviewed.

Re: R/T status in KL FIR
 

Hey this is totally amazing. I applaud all you ATCers for taking the trouble to come and have a dialogue with the pilots in an informal manner. This way we can each air our views and we know someone's listening!

I cannot believe why SIN isn't on your FAM flight list. It's one of the best in the region along with TPE and HKG. Please lobby forcefully on this.

Of course we pilots have bitched constantly about the endless holdings during both peak and even sometimes non peak hours. We do sympathise with the obviously harrassed controllers, though.

Here's some off the top of my head:-
1. Why not enforce speed controls like SIN and HKG do during peak hours? 250kts below 10,000ft, then you can choose who you want to speed up. Otherwise most of us will be happily charging down at 300kts until suddenly we're asked to slow down 220 out of the blue, or worse, hold.

2. Try and give track miles to go and sequence when radar vectoring. SIN always radar vectors really far off the track but they do strive to tell you your sequence and track miles to touchdown. This way we can adjust our rate of descent and our LNAV tracking accordingly. Also we won't have to worry if the ATC knows we're going to cross the centerline.

3. Some favourite waypoints you'd like us to hold at do not have published holding patterns in Jeppesen (Nipar or Pibos is an example, I think). Sometimes we don't know if it's a right and or left hand holding, or what's the inbound track.

Also I have a few questions:- Are the ATCers dual-runway approach approved? Is it still a requirement for the 5nm separation if both aircraft are on approach to different runways? How about dual runways takeoffs like in SIN?

Thanks and keep up the good work!

spacing and holding patterns
 

to flightleader and wilflyer..keep it coming..were picking up your valuable points...we'll try to answer every question posted. my colleague llchew will be updating you guys in this forum.Effective 19th Jan at 2200utc we will introducing the unilateral routing for the eastern sector(132.6). For R32 gate out will be via PK and gate-in will be via PADLI(15nm South of PK) For R14 it will be vice-versa.Pls pass on to those who may be not aware of this arrangement.There will be also a a new holding point over Tioman. It is called VINIL.

Good Day Old Chap,

Actually, its great to see u atc'ers come on line and get inputs.
Its a shame u guys cant get hkg and sin, maybe we can try to get that from our side to help u guys out.
Over the years ive operated into very congested terminals and like lhr the best. What u have going here over PK is a good start, next maybe u could have the freq's for both the airways there segregated, that way it cuts down on the chatter, london has that and u hardly hear dep's on the same freq, or arrivals on the other.
In lhr there were dep's and arr's every minute, im very comfortable with 5 nm seperations on app except when folloeing a 757, which we hardly get. Its quite common to get landing clearence at 500' in heathrow with the guy just clearing in front. Speed restrictions during peak hours is good, and have this implemented all the way on the star. Its also very common to get good speed management from the pilots themselves, something i strive from my young apprentice's. 160 till 4 miles is good.

The othere thing is to get flow control to separate a/c based on distance rather than time, and we can actually start slowing down very far out. I understand what u see on the radar is ground speed, therefore in cruise get the guys to reduce speed based on their G/S. Its common in europe for the controller to say "reduce ground speed by 20kts". But this should apply in high level cruise. The other bigger factor that i notice screws things up is wx in the terminal area. Maybe planes could all be vectored via overhead to the west if arr from east , coz the wx generally builds up over the main range. Have 1 app point where the guys should be vectored to, where they would be req to arrive at a certain speed based on dist as seperation.
If u guys are uncomfortable with dual runway approaches then try them during non peak hour's, as u build up confidence try them during peak hours. And planes should be put on the runway where they would be closes to in terms of parking position's, or have the w/b planes on 1 and narrow on the other, that way u reduce app seperation.

As ive said before, get your guys in touch with the association and maybe we could have a teh tarik session somewhere, maybe more. Thanks for the invite to ATC kl, would love to vist, have done bki and kch, and have got to know some off the guys there, and we exchange loads of info.
SQ and their atc guys do loads of this and maybe thats why they have improved a great deal. And this is the first steps that we have taken on that road.
Rome wasnt built in a day.

The Rage
Ciao.

132.6 sectorisation
 

Hi Rage...tks 4 the inputs. We'll b great if pilots start lobbying 4 controllers about airports. That will be a win-win 4 Pilots n Atc. I have personally used the "reduce g/s by xxx" it worked until Flow Controller wanted something else. In Area Control all we need is 10nm separation (on Radar). In Approach it is 5nm.
Actually flow does a good job...until the Ipoh/Johore/Kuantan/ guys get a/borne suddenly. U have a string of them coming in from the East...all well arranged by Flow n out of the blues the 737's get a/borne from this nearby airfields n that's where all the speed and vectoring begins.B4 we hand over to Approach, there must b a min of 10NM. Yes we cud keep them on ground but it's not good for ATC as we wud be blamed 4 every delay. Someone said it is better to delay on ground than in the air...what's ur opinion? How about the 737's opinion? Priority is given to the PK inbound inorder to reduce the workload of the 132.6 ATCer. A lot of coordination takes place between Area Controller n Flow/Approach especially in bad wx. We'll start looking into ur inputs n c how we can smoothen up things. After the unilateral routes for PK, we are going to split the 132.6 into two sectors, hopefully by the end of 2006. That will greatly reduce Controller workload as now one Controller has to monitor tfc over PK/VKB/IGARI(inbound and outbound from Penang) via VKB and also tfc climbing out of SIN to BKK n vice-versa.ATS is working on it and we are glad to c some progress now.So when can we have the teh-tarik session?Cheers

Yeah, Unilateral near PK is great.

Recently I had a few morning departure in KLIA arround 9 to 10am peak period. I was once number 8th. Tower was rather confuse to sequence a/c at the holding point.Couple of widebodies on taxiway H,AAsia hogging A8 (a few of them) and tower couldn't decide which a/c go A11,A10 and A9. I bet some of the widebody had waypoint crossing to comply with.

Anyway, the issue I would like to highlight is that using 2 runways with 32R for depature and 32L for arrival in this condition is the same as using 1 runway. The no.2 a/c couldn't takeoff until no.1 is 9nm out(or 3 minutes),the time of waiting is good for an a/c to land on 32R,turn off while no.2 line up and takeoff in turn.In this is done on both runways,capacity would be double.Perhaps for a start,make some of the widebody from satelite building proceed to 32L for departure while those a/c closer to 32R use 32R for departure.A lot of the international airport assign a/c to use the runway closest to its bay,SIN,TPE.....However,I'm not very sure App and Area control could handle this,just that I've seen it been done elseway and hope KLIA can come up to speed.From pilots point of view,we are quite happy as long as the landing clearence come before 500'.

A little off topic, I hope DCA could issue a NOTAM/AIC to remind pilots to minimised thrust usage at TGG,LGK,AOR etc as there are always people on the apron eg:cargo handler,traffic staff even pax just disembark from another a/c.Some places have folks standing by the fence waving and the a/c turn 180 add power and blast these folks in the face as it taxy away.I've witness an old man carrying an infant ran for cover and duct behind a pile of dirt as a 737 increase thrust for a cross bleed start in TGG. I hope this issue could be arrested before someone get hurt.

llchew....welcome aboard....
velloo, padli thing should work out great. i'm sure you have already noticed the high number of requests for a direct routing towards istan for the flights from kch.:)


recently, i insisted on delaying the start even after the tower cleared us. let's put it this way, one way or another, if the airport is congested, the reports would indicate delay due atc to a certain degree, although it may not be very accurate. that i'd have to say is due in part to the way our reporting is done,
anyways, twenty minutes at the holding point against twenty minutes at the gate without the engines started, burning precious liquid gold and spewing out hot invisible poison, would not do any of our children and future generation any good, i believe. really hope you agree.......

i believe the way to do it is to make sure that the RATE of which the aircrafts arrive at the holding point remains more or less constant once it gets busy. mind you, klia is not the only busy airfield. we face very similiar situations in other congested airports too....therefore i say, save the gold.....

ah ...how about kayu nasi kandar, ss2......
me hates traffic. figure i'd quickly suggest a location to suit me.....:}

may i also be bold enough to say, that the controllers speak too fast when it gets busy. so much repeats could have been avoided. i think its not a problem when it's not busy, but when it is, we need to slow down the r/t compared to a normal non busy state. more traffic, more stress, more chances of missing calls, and more speed definitely will not help.

that i'd like to add, is the major difference between heathrow and los angeles. both extremely busy airports, however,pilots for a foreign carrier into these two airports, will likely find lhr to be very pleasant. too many words in a sentence for the same clearance, in an accent that pilots may not be accustomed to.

i remember a friend of mine who was training a new co-pilot, this co-pilot is a local boy, trained for his initial license locally, but found much difficulty with the r/t in kl. however, he did not face the same problem in sin. i think it's the speed of delivery and of course the level of standard phrasiology. please tell the guys not to speak as they normally would, but slower, cos we can't see their lips moving and their facial expressions...

by the way, velloo, it's the same problem with the less than comprehendable announcements on the 737.....

operations into and out of KLIA
 

DCA had a meeting with the airline operators operating at KLIA in 2005 (or was it 2004?). During that meeting I gave a presentation on operations into and out of KLIA - what pilot's can expect from ATC and what ATC expects from pilots. The major operators, MH, SQ, TSE, AK sent in their pilots. Unfortunately, most of the foreign carriers only sent their station reps, all non-pilots. Anyway, these were the salient points.

Arrivals
All arrivals into KLIA are "flowed". Sitting between the App-North and App-South controllers is the FLOW controller. He sets his radar monitor to 200 NM. The moment an arrival comes within radar coverage, a landing time is calculated based on a the normal speed profile for the aircraft type. Assuming we have 6 arrivals for Rwy 32 and their landing times are as follows:

Aircraft A 0010 from DAKUS
Aircraft B 0010 from ISTAN
Aircraft C 0012 from ISTAN
Aircraft D 0013 from VMK
Aircraft E 0014 from ISTAN
Aircraft F 0018 from VMK

The FLOW controller will probably plan to achieve the following landing times. He does this by sending instructions to the en-route controller who in turn will issue the instructions to the aircraft before top of descent.

Time How?
Aircraft A 0008 Maintain high speed, expect track shortening
by radar vectors for 10 NM finals
Aircraft B 0010 Normal speed profile
Aircraft C 0012 Normal speed profile
Aircraft D 0015 Aircraft to descend at 270 knots
Aircraft E 0017 Aircraft to descend at 260 knots
Aircraft F 0019 Aircraft to descend at 280 knots

So, if you are aircraft E, you'd get this on 132.6. You can actually plan to leave your level earlier. Most times, this works out fine.

Our problems
Remember this planning is often done when you are way, way out. It is subject to:
a) weather;
b) departures from nearby airports like Ipoh, Kuantan and Subang and
very rarely, missed approaches from KLIA. Of
course, ATC can always hold these aircraft but more often than not, we
try to absorb them;
c) aircraft leaving the holding pattern too late. The above example does not
have a holding instruction but if there is and the pilot leaves the stack 2
minutes late, that will eat into the FLOW controller's planned landing time;
d) finally, controller screw-up. Yes, that happens. With the radar screen set
at 200 NM and radar labels all over, sometimes the FLOW controller
misses out on an arrival in between the others that he has planned.

Whenver the above happens, new sequences are worked out and instructions issued. By this time, the aircraft should be with the Approach controllers. You'd get instructions to slow down when the original, or speed up or blah blah blah.

Having been involved with the FLOW program from the very beginning, I can say that it works out most of the time. It would be the exception rather than the rule that you'd find yourself getting seemingly contradictory instructions from the en-route and the Approach controllers. If you find that you keep experiencing this, then you probably need to bathe with 7 types of flowers to "buang sueh".

The FLOW program is based on the one used in Melbourne.

Speed control
Unless you are issued with a "high speed" instruction, 250 KIAS below 10000 ft. should be observed. When using speed control, the controllers have been advised to keep aircraft at minimum clean speed of 210 - 220 for as long as possible. Again, there will be times that this is not possible. At finals, we may impose speed of 190 knots until 7 miles.

I agree that if speed reference points are included in the STARs it would simplify things. Currently, we have a couple of operators who will reduce to around 120 -130 GS about 10 NM out!

Track miles
I agree that this is not done as often as I like. The guys I spoke to say that even though track miles is not given, they are monitoring and if they feel that you are on the high side, they will ask - are you ready for base? or something to that effect.

Intercepting GP from below while under radar vectors
It was agreed with the local operators, MH and AK that to reduce track miles, aircraft may be radar vectored to intercept the LLZ and, at times, the aircraft may not intercept the GP from below.

Own navigation for 10 nm finals
Again it was agreed with the local operators that the aircraft cleared to intercept 10 nm finals under own navigation shall intercept at 12 nm and be fully established at 10 NM. This is usually restricted to aircraft coming in from GUPTA or VMK from the south or ISTAN from the east when Rwy 32 is in use. When 14 is in use, then flights from INTOT to PIBOS may be offered. I, personally, prefer to radar vector.

Dependent arrivals to both runways
Currently, independent approaches are not allowed. Dependent arrivals are allowed but the diagonal spacing is still 5 NM. Assuming that 32 is in use, the arrival runway shall be 32L and the departure 32R. ATC does not offer 32R unless requested. There were complaints raised by some pilots departing 32R when they had to wait for the arrival.

Departures
First of all, you might be interested to know that "Lumpur Delivery" is situated at Subang Air Traffic Control Centre and not at KLIA. ATC clearances are normally available almost immediately. For flights within radar coverage, you'd get your requested level. For, flights into the South China Sea, Bay of Bengal or south to Australia, we have a no-PDC arrangement where intitial levels between FL250 to FL320 may be offered depending on the agreement.

We had discussions debating using slot times over a waypoint or using timed spacing at departure based on Mach Number Technique. We decided on timed spacing at departure as it optimises the slots. The drawback is that the pilot will be in the dark on the position of the other aircraft. It is up to Lumpur Ground to time your push back taking into consideration taxy times to the holding point and the number waiting at the holding point.

Wake turbulence separation
I have had many requests to reduce the departure separation. The trouble is the procedures allow it but the AIP is very clear - the pilot in command shall expressly initiate the waiver. That takes care of the departure but if both aircraft are headed in the same direction, Approach needs to hand over the two aircraft with 10 NM in trail separation (no closing speed) or vertically separated. This in turn increases the work load when step climbing is involved. I would like to see closer spaced departures but you'd have to do your part.

Departures from both runways
We actually tried this out in 2005, twice in fact. We used SIDs and not the parking bay as the criteria to decide on the runway. This was to avoid criss-crossing after departure. After the trials, a post-mortem was conducted and MAS said that the gains were negligible especially when Rwy 32 was in use. During the morning rush, most departures were eastbound plus the taxy time to 32L was excessively long. During the trials, we had an A330 to Penang going for 32L. When the aircraft reached the holding point, there 3 arrivals all spaced at minimum spacing necessitating a further 8-minute wait at the holding point!

With the LCC terminal situated so near to 32R, there may be even greater reluctance to taxy to 32L.

Anyway, DCA is very aware of the departure jam at certain times of the day and we are always willing to try various options.

I believe the design of the runways with their huge stagger is an impediment.


I hope this gives you a better picture of KLIA operations. I know it is not exhaustive. I'll be more than happy to explain more over nasi kandar at Kayu.

Cheers.

taxy thrust
 

I too have noticed the thrust power of acft at local aerodromes. Tks 4 the concern with rgds to the apron staff and the enthusiasts along the fence. Will all pilots agree to this is debatable but will look into it. I remember many years ago two young boys who were watching a F27 from behind the fence were invited by the Capt to visit the cockpit.After staring into the cockpit they remarked "kapal ini ada banyak jam lah". Though it sounds funny, I wished that day that this two boys would someday be involved in the field of aviation. As for me, I was once caned in the public because of an airplane that flew over our school during assembly time.While singing the national anthem, I was looking at the plane instead of the flag being raised.Such was my desire for aeroplanes but that's history.Till today I make it a point to educate the public n friends about the joys of flying n ATC by organising small tower n atc visits for whoever is interested especially children who are between 10-16yrs.I've been with the ATS for 31years and have another 7 to go and I hope to get more Malaysians understand the aviation environment better.Just briefed a couple of freshies from MAS last week about what's happening at the ATCC.I strongly believe in a good rapport between pilots and ATCers.Tony Fernandez personally walked into the ATCC sometime ago and personally shook hands with every ATCer on duty and something he said really touched the hearts of those who were on duty that morning. Quote "I really appreciate the service you guys are providing for us" Unquote.I am not putting him on a pedestal.Far from it. That personal h/shake meant a lot to the ATCers.Period.As for me, he's another ATC customer BUT here is man who has come out of his tight schedule to convey his appreciation thus strenthening the rapport between Controllers n his company.The key word here is rapport.I hate all this official meetings where minutes are kept and hours wasted. nasi kandar kayu at SS2 is fine.We want to help you guys save on the liquid gold man. On the longer run everyone will benefit especially the ENVIRONMENT and our children.

LCC Terminal
 

Have you guys ever wondered the kind of congestion you are going to get into with the new LCC Terminal at 32R? Is there any task force in MAS doing any studies? Any meetings with DCA or is it going to be the usual "we'll cross the bridge when we get to it" attitude. MAS should be pro-active in this matter and start the ball rolling now.Cheers.

dear velloo and chew,

personally am all for a teh tarik session, however i believe it'll be pretty difficult to get big numbers, due to the schedule of our guys in mh at the moment. will definitely give you a call soon, and i hope to be able to get at least 2 or three guys along. i'm sure it used to be a lot easier those days when slightly more intoxicating fluids was involved. it's just that it's a more sober nowadays. let us know if you have a preffered time and/or day of the week.



by the way, you'll have to put up with our youth too!!!!!:p

Atc/mas
 

Tks Jetrat we'll keep in-touch.The number seems right.Don't worry about the youth, we are quite used to them by now as it is the same on our side...apparantly they all seem to know everything within the Milky Way.Our roster is kinda fixed so much so that we can accomodate somehow..it's your tight schedules that might stand in the way n with the CNY holidays around the corner we'll c how we can adapt. I'll call u brother!Teh-tarik is absolutely fine.

llchew,

Thank for the detail explaination. We shall all continue this effort to make our airspace better.:ok:

Here is a question for all,

When ATC say "You are cleared Ismas 1B arrival,clear VOR DME approach Runway 22" Does this clearence allow a/c to leave the last assigned altitude even if the a/c has been maintaining higher than the initial approach altitude?
In other words,is it correct for ATC to clear the a/c for approach without bringing it down to initial approach altitude??

I've notice KLIA or anyway else always bring the a/c down to initial approach altitude before clearing it for approach except BTW 125.8.There have been a few times they did that and I've personally rang them to have a chat.The supervisor insisted that was taught in ATC school.Like KLIA the approach controller would say " Clear descend 3000' not below star steps and clear for approach runway 32l",right?

Flightleader,
I agree with you. You should be cleared down to IAA of that particular approach prior to the approach clearance. I will relay your experience to our Inspectorate Division. They are the guys who conduct proficiency checks on the military controllers at BTW.

just wanted you guys to know that the mh 73 fleet was ill prepared for the implementation day before. literature for the aip was not available at the office. notams did not have cordinates for the points and neither did the rnav data base. sigh!!!!

:\

I flew on the 20th (1 day after implementation) and the AIP supplements were there.

The Nav database is, of course, usually not updated that quickly...to be fair all us pilots were informed rather late, about a week before implementation date or so. The a/c Honeywell FMCs are only updated like every two weeks.

What's unforgivable are the computerized flight plans not being updated. Just flew back from Kuching and the flightplan is still boldly M761.PK.ISTAN. That one I cannot say anything.

Uni-Directional RNAV Routes
 

It's not only he 737's that wasn't sure of the implementation of this new routes.Even the wide bodies were tracking for PK ISTAN.It's OK with ATC for a start. (Coordinates for PADLI 030918N 1033133E) .Give a few more days and the dust will settle down. Just finished one complete cycle on this sector (132.6). Things were pretty smooth EXCEPT for pushing down southbound tfc from BKK to SIN a bit early. The requirement is to ensure all southbound acft into SIN X PK F330 which I personally find that it is NOT necessary at all. The other is tfc inbound to KLIA via M763 TXL Y331 PIBOS. Are the wide Body guys comfortable with this arrangement? What about fuel burn? We may track acft to ISTAN somewhere between TXL n PIBOS tfc permitting. A bit uncomfortable to those flying into and out of Subang though(depending on the RWY in use at KLIA).We will be reviewing some of this arrangements on the 25th. at 9am. Give us your feedback. Also interested to hear from those using M751 SIN-BKK n vice versa.We are still experiencing readability problems on a intermittent basis around 20NM East of PK.Any comments?

How's it going Chaps?

Just a couple of days back heard 132.6 chew up an express bloke for not listening out. And the bloke had the cheek to tell the controller to check his radio, when it was preety obv he was the one with the prob.

Just a point on a few very basic radio procedures where i beleive we have developed a few very bad malaysian habits.

1. Not listening out before changing to a new freq to c if anyone is actually transmiting. I dont see why a person has to change over and straight away start blabering away. LISTEN OUT FIRST.

2. Every clearence is always repeated with a "confirm". That has become like "lah". If u listen out, then they wont need to "CONFIRM". It has become a habit!


Sometimes there's way too much chatter which during peak periods cause unnessesary congestion.

When's the teh tarik thingy, count me in. Prefer the more intoxicating stuff, but i guess for a start this would do.

Tony, is one dude who knows good PR! Dam good at it as well. If mh had 1% of what he does im sure we wouldnt be in this mess.
Tony, if u ever read this forum's , well hat's off to u old boy, ill give u that!:ok:

The Rage
Ciao

Kul Atc
 

Hi Rage..tks old chap..nice to hear from you...when u say Express did u mean Fedex or Asian Express.I have observed that Asian Express quite often identify themselves as Express n so do Fedex. I always identify AK as Asian Express inorder not to confuse with Fedex who have been identifying themselves as Express since when Pontius was Pilate. Yeah..about the freq change n tx without listening out seems to be a pain in the neck many a times. We tend to keep our BP normal by just saying "u have been cut out say again pls"(sorry the please is there only on rare occassions). That teh-tarik thingy is just around the corner..waiting for Jetrat to be back from Timbaktu.Teh-tarik will be fine for a start.Tea will not confuse us much. Rage give me your opinion on this: u would have observed that the STAR is given to all acft that is inbound to KLIA. If there are 7 guys coming in from the East, the same STAR is given one by one to all 7.This lengthens the RT and shortens our lifespan.U guys are very familiar with the STAR.What exactly is enough for u guys? Wud something like this b gud?
"MH123 Nipar3A 32l via Istan b gud enough" or do u prefer the STAR to be on the CATIS. I am looking for ways to cut down on RT for tfc inbound via Padli/PK.tks 4 replies.