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[Cathay Pacific/ Dragon Cadet Pilot Programme] Call for Study Buddies in TORONTO

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[Cathay Pacific/ Dragon Cadet Pilot Programme] Call for Study Buddies in TORONTO

Old 4th Sep 2018, 19:10
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[Cathay Pacific/ Dragon Cadet Pilot Programme] Call for Study Buddies in TORONTO

Hi guys,

Is anyone in Toronto preparing for the cadet pilot programme and and planning to apply next year? I want to hold a study group in Toronto where we can meet regularly to prepare together and share the information.

If you are interested, please message me or leave an email. I'm hoping to submit my application in May 2019. Thank you.
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Old 7th Sep 2018, 06:42
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Hey hows it going?

I'm currently staying in Toronto as well! Also looking to apply for the Cadet Program at Cathay! I've sent you a pm, let me know if you want to link up to study together?

You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 23:33
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Hey CaptionSing,

Sorry for the belated reply. I was just back to Toronto last week. I received your private message but unfortunately my account doesn't allow me to reply to you privately =[

It is really nice to know you are interested in the program as well! Please email me so we can set up a meeting and study together soon! My email address: [email protected]
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Old 5th Oct 2018, 14:36
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For those looking to apply to Cathay, I just want to show you the new contract that was just released and you will be joining on. It's called COS18 and is full of many clauses.

In my opinion it is a sever degradation to previous contracts as your time as an SO is no longer based on seniority, but how many hours you work in a year. The pay has been reduced to a lower salary with higher hourly wages so that in order to get the pay they quote, you need to make sure you work all of those hours.

Any agreements the union comes to on behalf of the pilot body will not benefit those on COS18 unless they are specifically mentioned in writing. The company can employee direct entry captains if they want, which will slow your upgrade time as well. There is a final clause that states Cathay can amend the rules anytime they want. I will just post here the summary so you may see for yourselves.

I am not trying to stop you, but rather let you know what you are getting into ahead of time. These are just some of the comparisons. Keep in mind all ab initio will have to pay for their training, will not get HKPA for the first three years (unless you join Cathay Dragon as they no longer will have Second Officers) and the company will doc you 16,000HKD per month until your training is paid off. training plus HKPA loss is $30,000HKD/mo less money.....just so you know up front. Good luck to you.

I have attached the actual contract that you will be signing if you do choose to join. You can take a look and make your decision. Please keep in mind, there are other airlines with cadet programs, and for those with hours, strongly consider looking around before making your final decision. Wish you all the best.


“....some SO mates of mine sent me this. They did some digging and this is doing the rounds amongst the SO ranks...


* PXing is now J class only for CN, FO & SO and potential downgrade to PEY is acceptable. (No longer offering F class if available for CN and FO. Our current contract they must fly you back home in no lower than business class, whereas the new contract you may operate a long haul flight, and then fly back in economy as a passenger.
* Have to earn sick days. 2 per month in 1st year then 4 per month in 2nd year onwards. 120 Days max can be accrued. (COS08 allows up to 126 days)
* If you are medicaly unable to fly, the company have the right to assign you full-time ground duties.
* Reserve payment does not occur until after 30 days free reserve in rolling 12 months. They would have to roster and NOT call you in 5 x (6 day reserve blocks) every 12 months for you to even have a sniff at the Reserve day payment. Highly unlikely……
* Positioning allowance (0.25 x Excess Block Hour Rate) will only be paid if Actual Block Hours + Positioning Hours is above the minimum monthly block hours.
* The annual package and payment calculations the company are using in their tables all include P fund contributions and averaging 74 block hours a month (777). Making it look a lot better than it really is.
* Cadets in FTA now have to supply their own uniform (white shirt and navy pants) for the duration of their training.
* A note was made that ANY officer can become a Check and Trainer now.
* Also make note that any one on COS18 can be sent to a Cathay Group airline at any time for training or resource planning requirements. I.e. Air Hong Kong or Cathay Dragon.
* Promotion from within a rank (i.e. SO1 to SO2, FO1 to FO2) is based on Actual Block Hours not anniversary year of service. So work more if you want to be promoted to next pay scale.
* Different Block Hour Rate (after the minimum of 51 block hours a month for 777) for different fleets. 777 being the lowest, then Airbus and 747 getting the most per hour pay after the minimum monthly block hours.
* Target annual block hours 777 = 880 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 51.33)
* Target annual block hours Airbus = 840 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 49)
* Target annual block hours 747 = 725 per year (Min. Monthly Block Hours - 42.29)
* No Overtime. Excess Block Hour Pay is only one figure and not a tiered system. So it will be the same per hour beginning from Minimum Monthly Hours (51hrs on 777) up to 100+ hrs per month is all paid at the same hourly rate (SO1 = $611 per hour)
* No longer a JFO pay or Rank.
* The company has the right to employ DEFO and DECN
* If you swap away duties and it results in you going below your minimum monthly block hours, your pay will be deducted accordingly.
* Annual productivity bonus is only paid if the above mentioned target block hours for each fleet is exceeded and then multiplied by 0.5 of the Block Hour Rate. So hypothetically if you are on 777 and maxed out at 900 hours. You would get 20 hrs extra calculated at your 0.5 Excess Block Hour Rate and that would be your annual bonus. e.g. SO1 (777) = 20 x $305= $6,100. CN1 (777) = 20 x $710 = $14,200.
* This Annual Productivity Bonus is not discretionary and MUST be paid at the end of every year.
* Although company can alter the Target Block Hours as they see fit without any consultation with HKAOA.
* Discretionary Year End Bonus (13th Month) is still available + the Annual Productivity Bonus.
* P fund reduced to 5%- 10% depending on joining rank. (if you are ab initio you get 5% if you are AE/TT you will get 10%. Currently we all get 15.5%)
* No mention of Bypass Pay in any Rank. - if someone upgrades before you, you get no compensation. Whereas now if they upgrade out of seniority, the person who was bypassed will be paid the next level. (FO on CAPT salary until he becomes a capt)
* Snapshot of COS18 left out the line (21.2. The Company will meet the cost of aircraft type endorsements.) under the training section. Could this mean type conversion will mean you are type frozen and bonded to the company for x amount of years to recuperate costs of conversion?
* Given that COS18 employees will effectively only get paid the same as COS08 employees, they will effectively become the ones to pickup the dribs and drabs of the duties. COS08 employees will be rostered to fly their max 84 hours before they start rostering COS18 guys because if they don’t exceed there Minimum Monthly Block Hours then the company instantly saves money every month.
* Interesting to see how swaps will be managed also Will CC disapprove swaps now if you tried to swap a duty with a COS18 employee that would push them above their Minimum Monthly Block Hours and incur the company extra $$ whilst we still get paid effectively the same with less work due to our higher fixed based cost point?
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Old 12th Oct 2018, 19:50
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I thought ab initio was now only 50% paid by CX, not 0%?
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 03:14
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Originally Posted by Foxdeux View Post
I thought ab initio was now only 50% paid by CX, not 0%?
sorry for the late reply. Yes it is paid 50% by the company and 50 by the cadet. This amount is around $77K USD. You would be able to get your training in the USA (multi instrument commercial pilot) for around 30-40K USD. If you really are considering joining on the COS18 package, you may want to consider joining after you have your ratings as this will qualify you for the advanced entry. You wont pay any training costs in adelaide, you will receive more provident fund, and you will have a higher seniority number as you will spend much less time in adelaide. I hope local Hong Kongers realize that CX is actually screwing over its own Hong Kong Citizens, as they realize most HK will not be able (or want) to pay for their training up front in another country. And since you are unable, they charge you a higher price, pay you less, and give you less in your provident fund for the rest of your career.
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