Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > South Asia and the Far East
Reload this Page >

7 approaches , 600lbs fuel left in a 737 of Jet airways in almost VFR

South Asia and the Far East News and views on the fast growing and changing aviation scene on the planet.

7 approaches , 600lbs fuel left in a 737 of Jet airways in almost VFR

Old 23rd Aug 2015, 04:32
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Well thats a big volcano...
Posts: 369
7 approaches , 600lbs fuel left in a 737 of Jet airways in almost VFR

Something strange here, look at the weather... hardly below minimums

reported here Incident: Jet Airways B738 at Trivandrum on Aug 18th 2015, landed below required final fuel reserve on 7th approach

A Jet Airways Boeing 737-800, registration VT-JFA performing flight 9W-555 (dep Aug 17th) from Doha (Qatar) to Kochin (India) with 142 passengers and 8 crew, was on approach to Kochin and went around three times due to weather. Following the third go-around the crew declared fuel emergency and diverted to Thiruvananthapuram (in India often also referred to as short "Trivandrum"), located about 95nm south of Kochin, where the aircraft again needed to go around three times before managing a safe landing on the fourth approach.

On Aug 21st 2015 India's Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) reported the aircraft landed with just 270kg/600lbs of fuel left, where the required minimum fuel reserve would have been around 1500kg/3300lbs. The aircraft had gone around 3 times in Kochin due to bad weather, the crew then decided to divert to Trivandrum, which had poor weather conditions, too, and managed a landing there only on the 4th attempt. Both pilots have been suspended pending investigation. The DGCA reported they are looking into the airline's fueling policy as well as into the weather reports and why the crew diverted to Trivandrum.

Metars Kochin:

VOCI 180100Z 00000KT 1800 BR BKN004 SCT015 24/22 Q1008 NOSIG
VOCI 180030Z 00000KT 2000 BR SCT006 SCT015 24/22 Q1007 TEMPO VIS 1500 BR
VOCI 180000Z 00000KT 3000 BR SCT006 SCT015 24/22 Q1007 TEMPO VIS 2000 BR


Metars Trivandrum:

VOTV 180310Z 25006KT 3000 HZ FEW015 SCT090 27/23 Q1009 NOSIG
VOTV 180140Z 23004KT 2000 BR FEW015 SCT090 26/23 Q1008 NOSIG
VOTV 180040Z 29003KT 3000 HZ FEW015 SCT090 25/23 Q1007 NOSIG
itsbrokenagain is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2015, 12:26
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL410
Posts: 91
1.8kms of vis, BR and broken 400ft and you say Almost VFR?

Are you a pilot?
Oscar84 is offline  
Old 23rd Aug 2015, 13:12
  #3 (permalink)  

SkyGod
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,483
Should be well above minimums unless the crew was restricted to high mins.
Fair enough to go missed if unstable, but with calm winds, it should be a cake walk.
TowerDog is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2015, 06:23
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 153
@ Oscar84

1.8kms of vis, BR and broken 400ft and you say Almost VFR?

Are you a pilot?
I don't know about anywhere else but at least in Chicago, it is considered fair weather...
pilotbaba is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2015, 06:47
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Well thats a big volcano...
Posts: 369
1.8kms of vis, BR and broken 400ft and you say Almost VFR?

Are you a pilot?
Yep... and this is a piece of cake as you too should be aware of if you are a practicing pilot...

Ils mins VOCI is 320'(290) and 750m RVR (reduced to 650m with AP or FD to DA)... even adding 100ft and 400m for high mins you should be able to easily make it in under the worst reported Cochin weather .
itsbrokenagain is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2015, 07:18
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Planet Earth for a short visit
Posts: 614
Seven approaches when the wx was never below CAT1!

More to this story than being told. Indian aviation is a seriously worrying entity.
silverhawk is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2015, 10:46
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 810
Quite possibly the METAR was inaccurate. Its also not uncommon for some Towers to just read out the CAVOK METAR, rather than look at the 500m heavy rain out the window.
*Lancer* is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2015, 13:24
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Well thats a big volcano...
Posts: 369
not in india..they dont deviate here
itsbrokenagain is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2015, 14:40
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sand on the Rocks !
Age: 37
Posts: 109
VOCI is notorious for low clouds on approach just around sunrise. The morning mist rises and forms clouds at around 200-300 feet. Unfortunately this is rarely reported by the Met department - along with the standard tailwind

As per the ground staff, VOTV had some low clouds on that day. My guess is, they never saw the runway till they busted the minimums on their 7th approach.
iflytb20 is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 01:47
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Takeshima
Age: 51
Posts: 96
Oscar84 1.8kms of vis, BR and broken 400ft and you say Almost VFR?

Are you a pilot?
From the posts below, you are dealing with intransigent m****rf**king twats!
gerago is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 03:50
  #11 (permalink)  

SkyGod
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,483
.
As per the ground staff, VOTV had some low clouds on that day. My guess is, they never saw the runway till they busted the minimums on their 7th approach.
Calm winds, nice slow and stabilized?
Go to the minimums, take a good look, then take another good look:
Oops, here is the approach lights, here is the runway lights, and here is the runway. No drama, no 6 missed approaches, no minimum fuel and no emergency.
TowerDog is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 11:55
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Takeshima
Age: 51
Posts: 96
Go to the minimums, take a good look, then take another good look:
Oops, here is the approach lights, here is the runway lights, and here is the runway. No drama, no 6 missed approaches, no minimum fuel and no emergency.
Amazing. The skygod gets to minimums (DA ) and then looks for this and that! Wow, amazing indeed...the slips are beginning to show!!!


P/s take note of this post and archive it. It ain't gonna last very long over here!
gerago is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 12:16
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 134
270kg in an 800, WOW!

What kind of approach at VOTV, can you auto land off it?

I'd be getting very nervous with less than 1000kg fuel.
Jet Man is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 15:24
  #14 (permalink)  

SkyGod
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,483
. Amazing. The skygod gets to minimums (DA ) and then looks for this and that! Wow, amazing indeed...the slips are beginning to show!!!


P/s take note of this post and archive it. It ain't gonna last very long over here!
Huh? Been smoking crack today?
TowerDog is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 16:46
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: universe
Posts: 565
Dog, I think he's trying to tell you that a professional crew don't go below minimums as you appeared to suggest in your earlier post. Doing that will mean a very short career in aviation. A professional crew would never allow this kind of situation to develop in the first place.
vfenext is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 17:23
  #16 (permalink)  

SkyGod
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,483
. Dog, I think he's trying to tell you that a professional crew don't go below minimums as you appeared to suggest in your earlier post. Doing that will mean a very short career in aviation. A professional crew would never allow this kind of situation to develop in the first place.
I would never advocate busting minimums and you are right, a very short career indeed.
With the kind of viz they had, ground contact could probably be established before minimums, as in Vertical Visibility.
Whatever, 6 go-arounds seems excessive, I have flown quite a bit in India and seen the conditions first hand, hence my comments.

With low fuel they would of course declare an emergency, then go below minimums as needed,
to get on the ground in one piece
I was behind the B-707 that crashed in JFK as he ran out of fuel, it was painful to listen to.
Should have declared an emergency, then followed the ILS to the runway..
TowerDog is offline  
Old 30th Aug 2015, 19:03
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: India
Posts: 298
The ILS for RWY 32 in TRV is U/S as per NOTAM.
bad_attitude is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2015, 01:55
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fredericton
Age: 71
Posts: 57
Quote:
. Dog, I think he's trying to tell you that a professional crew don't go below minimums as you appeared to suggest in your earlier post. Doing that will mean a very short career in aviation. A professional crew would never allow this kind of situation to develop in the first place.
I would never advocate busting minimums and you are right, a very short career indeed.
With the kind of viz they had, ground contact could probably be established before minimums, as in Vertical Visibility.
Whatever, 6 go-arounds seems excessive, I have flown quite a bit in India and seen the conditions first hand, hence my comments.

With low fuel they would of course declare an emergency, then go below minimums as needed,
to get on the ground in one piece
I was behind the B-707 that crashed in JFK as he ran out of fuel, it was painful to listen to.
Should have declared an emergency, then followed the ILS to the runway..
.....dog, you are indeed backtracking. The slip is indeed showing!

There are weather phenomenon whereby the slant visibility can be very different from reporting prevailing visibility.

My only grind, the crew should have buggered off somewhere better after the second go around. If unable and committed to land there, then declare an emergency to ATC to get the ILS all protected and all other services ready for any eventuality and make a " blind autolanding ".
Chuck Canuck is offline  
Old 31st Aug 2015, 11:06
  #19 (permalink)  

SkyGod
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
Age: 63
Posts: 1,483
. .....dog, you are indeed backtracking. The slip is indeed showing!
Yeah, I don't want to leave the impression that I advocate or recommend busting minimums.
In most cases there is no reason to: Alternate airport and reserve fuel, use plan B.
If there is no plan B, declare an emergency and use all resources.

"As for the slip is indeed showing"..
TowerDog is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2015, 04:10
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Well thats a big volcano...
Posts: 369
Whats interesting is there were other aircraft landing at these airports too... only one did 6 misses.
itsbrokenagain is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.