BEWARE of WEST AIR
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BEWARE of WEST AIR
Its seems that West Air will be losing many of their Foreign Pilots very soon as they have had enough.
I was looking at the contract there, as mine finishes in 5 months, but my agent tried to put me off!!
he does not even want to deal with them as they want kickback money from the agency fee.
According to a friend of a friend there they have not only fired a foreign pilot recently for doing excactly what the locals do they are also trying to change contracts, making deductions to salary when the pilots do sim training, medicals etc.
Training in China at the best is average seems WestAir and still in old era and every ride is a fail ride. Duty times are ignored also they work longer hours, with starts before us and lates often end 3am.
Think I'll stay where I am as over money is nearly the same for no hassle, and dont think my wife would like CKG as its not really a place to live.
Seems the HNA groups are not much better, Tianjin is also a definate NO NO.
Any guys with BCA care to comment
I was looking at the contract there, as mine finishes in 5 months, but my agent tried to put me off!!
he does not even want to deal with them as they want kickback money from the agency fee.According to a friend of a friend there they have not only fired a foreign pilot recently for doing excactly what the locals do they are also trying to change contracts, making deductions to salary when the pilots do sim training, medicals etc.
Training in China at the best is average seems WestAir and still in old era and every ride is a fail ride. Duty times are ignored also they work longer hours, with starts before us and lates often end 3am.
Think I'll stay where I am as over money is nearly the same for no hassle, and dont think my wife would like CKG as its not really a place to live.
Seems the HNA groups are not much better, Tianjin is also a definate NO NO.
Any guys with BCA care to comment
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The airline with a big BUT:
A distant friend of mine keeps telling stories along the same line:
Money seems to be ok, BUT: Constant fighting about contractual issues, with the Chinese often pointing out that the Chinese language text of the contract is the legally binding one...and if your English translation is different, it's your problem, isn't it? So docking of salaries for one or the other fishy reason seems to be quite common.
Commuting options seem to be ok, BUT: Chongqing is not exactly the navel of the world when it comes to international connections. There is, for example, only one direct flight to a European destination (HEL). Commuting is essential though, because Chongqing is not really the place to bring your family...no infrastructure for Westerners and tremendous pollution.
Plus he agrees that flight operations and training are far from any standard, with weird invented procedures and a Flight Data Monitoring programme being solely used to blame people and dock their salary
Money seems to be ok, BUT: Constant fighting about contractual issues, with the Chinese often pointing out that the Chinese language text of the contract is the legally binding one...and if your English translation is different, it's your problem, isn't it? So docking of salaries for one or the other fishy reason seems to be quite common.
Commuting options seem to be ok, BUT: Chongqing is not exactly the navel of the world when it comes to international connections. There is, for example, only one direct flight to a European destination (HEL). Commuting is essential though, because Chongqing is not really the place to bring your family...no infrastructure for Westerners and tremendous pollution.
Plus he agrees that flight operations and training are far from any standard, with weird invented procedures and a Flight Data Monitoring programme being solely used to blame people and dock their salary
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Spoke to my friend there today.
he say they recently fired a USA Capt, everyone in company (chinese) knew he was being fired for week before. He found out after his final flight and then had to get a Chinese attorney to get his pay that he was owed!!
They just failed a Capt in sim, for landing out of limits on snowy runway. Capt did not even know it was snow covered as his FO hadn't told him, and the info was passed in Chinese only to FO. Examiner said Capt is reonsible for FO mistakes so he failed!!
WA fly earlier, finish later than everyone else
WA has the worst record for delays in China
Every sim ride is a chop ride
They may well, but then ask why all western pilots are about to leave!!
he say they recently fired a USA Capt, everyone in company (chinese) knew he was being fired for week before. He found out after his final flight and then had to get a Chinese attorney to get his pay that he was owed!!
They just failed a Capt in sim, for landing out of limits on snowy runway. Capt did not even know it was snow covered as his FO hadn't told him, and the info was passed in Chinese only to FO. Examiner said Capt is reonsible for FO mistakes so he failed!!
WA fly earlier, finish later than everyone else
WA has the worst record for delays in China
Every sim ride is a chop ride
They may well, but then ask why all western pilots are about to leave!!
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New Contracts
What a joke, my friend just sent me the new WA contracts. They have actually reduced the T & C. Says the 6/3 does not exist anymore and replace by a lesser paying 10 days a month off.
Taken leave off another contract with no salary increase.
Also housing allowance gone and overtime raised,so not an option to consider
They are desperate for pilots, but then lower conditions.
I'm staying put! At least here they treat us with respect.
Taken leave off another contract with no salary increase.
Also housing allowance gone and overtime raised,so not an option to consider
They are desperate for pilots, but then lower conditions.
I'm staying put! At least here they treat us with respect.
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Help on china
Hey guys,new on the forum.I am considering a move from europe as I am not happy with my company here.Looking at china I was considering West Air as the conmuting contracts look good,specially the 15/15(want to keep my family at home).Looking at this last info I am pretty scared,do you think is it worh considering go there and give a try or I should check for something else?Does anyone have a first hand info on the screening process?
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Screening
I was screened by west air last year and thankfully failed the sim session, and now working for another airline in the same region.
To shed some light on their process I will give you an idea of what I went thro.
Application process, they had no idea of what documents I needed and constantly had email going back and forward asking me for this and that, then a month later they had lost it and asked to send again, this went on for over 4 months.
I was asked to attended screening for ATPL, medical and Sim test in Chonking. After I booked ticket they cancelled dates and gave me another set, so I changed my flight and then came over. I got to CK and did nothing for 3 days then was taken to to Chendu for ATPL and medical. The standard of hotel was below standard, I have worked in far east, Africa and middle east before but this hotel was quite frankly disgusting.
The ATPL was based on FAA with changes like asking about china airspace and some questions actually in Chinese, I passed.
Medical, standing in a room in your under shorts with a bunch of Chinese guys dancing about is not my idea of fun. Then out dated equipment etc. I have never had a medical problem but according to them I need to drink less beer and stay off seafood ( since I'm tea total for last 7 years I did laugh at that) also my heart rate was low as i keep myself fit, and they subjected me to another test the next day with radioactive injection.
After another day in wondering how many infections I could catch in the Chinese hospital I was told I had passed, so back to CK.
After a few more days wait for sim I was told it could not be arranged and I.d have to come back again or wait in China for another week. I left as had to get back to work with my current operator.
About 3 weeks later flew back to do sim, again I was transported to another location Cumming and put straight in sim. Totally jet lagged and not expected what was given. Double failure of Hyde, FCU, FMGC with a Chinese Co-pilot who did not speak English, a examiner who did not speak English, airport plates in Chinese . A joke sim. I never got above 6,000 ft and got winds hear 2 times, Tcas, brake failure , max x wind, rejected to with brake failure many items all together.
I then left flew back to Beijing and left.
3 days later I was told I had failed sim
I was never refunded the tickets for any travel by them, they just stopped answering my email and the agency did nothing.
Since then I changed agent, did the process for a civilised company and now live in better part of China.
I asked my current agent last week about west air for a friend but they say they do not provide pilots for west air as they have high failure rate and that most pilots who turn up realise that CK is not a place for them
Now I hear about these other issues and don't feel bad about failing the process
To shed some light on their process I will give you an idea of what I went thro.
Application process, they had no idea of what documents I needed and constantly had email going back and forward asking me for this and that, then a month later they had lost it and asked to send again, this went on for over 4 months.
I was asked to attended screening for ATPL, medical and Sim test in Chonking. After I booked ticket they cancelled dates and gave me another set, so I changed my flight and then came over. I got to CK and did nothing for 3 days then was taken to to Chendu for ATPL and medical. The standard of hotel was below standard, I have worked in far east, Africa and middle east before but this hotel was quite frankly disgusting.
The ATPL was based on FAA with changes like asking about china airspace and some questions actually in Chinese, I passed.
Medical, standing in a room in your under shorts with a bunch of Chinese guys dancing about is not my idea of fun. Then out dated equipment etc. I have never had a medical problem but according to them I need to drink less beer and stay off seafood ( since I'm tea total for last 7 years I did laugh at that) also my heart rate was low as i keep myself fit, and they subjected me to another test the next day with radioactive injection.
After another day in wondering how many infections I could catch in the Chinese hospital I was told I had passed, so back to CK.
After a few more days wait for sim I was told it could not be arranged and I.d have to come back again or wait in China for another week. I left as had to get back to work with my current operator.
About 3 weeks later flew back to do sim, again I was transported to another location Cumming and put straight in sim. Totally jet lagged and not expected what was given. Double failure of Hyde, FCU, FMGC with a Chinese Co-pilot who did not speak English, a examiner who did not speak English, airport plates in Chinese . A joke sim. I never got above 6,000 ft and got winds hear 2 times, Tcas, brake failure , max x wind, rejected to with brake failure many items all together.
I then left flew back to Beijing and left.
3 days later I was told I had failed sim
I was never refunded the tickets for any travel by them, they just stopped answering my email and the agency did nothing.
Since then I changed agent, did the process for a civilised company and now live in better part of China.
I asked my current agent last week about west air for a friend but they say they do not provide pilots for west air as they have high failure rate and that most pilots who turn up realise that CK is not a place for them
Now I hear about these other issues and don't feel bad about failing the process
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Contract
Just got email from friend there. This is his reply;
'The 3/1 week contract are not really 3/1, it's actually 1 week off per month so you loose out on months with more than 28 days, which is only 11 months of the year! In new contract they have not increased salary but taken a day off the leave entitlement.
The 6/3 no longer exists, although they do say on the new 20/10 you can do 6/3 under certain conditions but the salary is $16,600 inc housing, when the old one was $16,800 plus $500 housing.
The 20/10 contract is actually 10 days off per month, so loose out on 7 months a year and on new contract they have removed all leave.'
Hope that helps
'The 3/1 week contract are not really 3/1, it's actually 1 week off per month so you loose out on months with more than 28 days, which is only 11 months of the year! In new contract they have not increased salary but taken a day off the leave entitlement.
The 6/3 no longer exists, although they do say on the new 20/10 you can do 6/3 under certain conditions but the salary is $16,600 inc housing, when the old one was $16,800 plus $500 housing.
The 20/10 contract is actually 10 days off per month, so loose out on 7 months a year and on new contract they have removed all leave.'
Hope that helps
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"They just failed a Capt in sim, for landing out of limits on snowy runway. Capt did not even know it was snow covered as his FO hadn't told him, and the info was passed in Chinese only to FO. Examiner said Capt is reonsible for FO mistakes so he failed!!"
This is absolutely the most idiot thing i have ever heard.
If it is true, this company deserve to have all birds grounded with all expat leaving in a day or so.
Fly your birds china boys...
This is absolutely the most idiot thing i have ever heard.
If it is true, this company deserve to have all birds grounded with all expat leaving in a day or so.
Fly your birds china boys...
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Joke
My friend just passed me on this from West Air Quailty Dept....
In addition, as the spring comes, a large number of migratory birds begin their migrations. As far as the currently known condition, the largest bird could has a wingspan of more than 2 meters, and their flying altitude could be above 3000meters. Crew should make bird strike-preventing plan to cope with potential serious situations such as engine or airframe damage.
Quality Management Center-Flight Dep
If anyone know a plan for preventing birdstrike please pass on
In addition, as the spring comes, a large number of migratory birds begin their migrations. As far as the currently known condition, the largest bird could has a wingspan of more than 2 meters, and their flying altitude could be above 3000meters. Crew should make bird strike-preventing plan to cope with potential serious situations such as engine or airframe damage.
Quality Management Center-Flight Dep
If anyone know a plan for preventing birdstrike please pass on
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Base Zhengzhou?
Now the best of it: There are plans to set up a base at Zhengzhou. For those of you who never heard of this place before, let me quote my friend, having firt hand experience:
"In the ****-City-Challenge Zhengzhou outruns Chongqing by miles"
And now guess who is supposed to go there? Right...the EXPATs because even the Chinese don't want to go there!!!
He keeps constant lookout for anything reasonable to change to....
"In the ****-City-Challenge Zhengzhou outruns Chongqing by miles"
And now guess who is supposed to go there? Right...the EXPATs because even the Chinese don't want to go there!!!
He keeps constant lookout for anything reasonable to change to....
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FTL
I also hear that WA are bending or ignoring all FTL rules.
Anything that is open to interpretation, in any form, is abused.
Sim, positioning and medicals are all in your rest periods!!!
Long duties, with reduced rest at every turn
Welcome to China
Anything that is open to interpretation, in any form, is abused.
Sim, positioning and medicals are all in your rest periods!!!
Long duties, with reduced rest at every turn
Welcome to China
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Base Change
Seems that WestAir have a second base in CGO, Zhenzhou. The hotel is so bad the local pilots don't even want to do there so its seem westair have decided to move the foreign pilots there.
My friend send me some photos, hotel in an insudtrial estate miles from town and very very Chinese. Rooms dirty and its actually called the 'Love hotel' where prostitutes use.!
More good news from this great company. In last few months 1 European pilot just did not return and another America pilot demoted to fo was not paid so he is leaving as well.
they are going to Miami to recruit... as this thread says BEWARE WEST AIR
My friend send me some photos, hotel in an insudtrial estate miles from town and very very Chinese. Rooms dirty and its actually called the 'Love hotel' where prostitutes use.!
More good news from this great company. In last few months 1 European pilot just did not return and another America pilot demoted to fo was not paid so he is leaving as well.
they are going to Miami to recruit... as this thread says BEWARE WEST AIR
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BEWARE of WEST AIR
Got the same news as King Long...unfortunately without the pics, would love to see some, especially because my friend there tells me that the Chinese(!!!) pilots are referring to this place as Hiroshima. Now imagine you come there with your western eyes...
In the meanwhile there is an official statement from Westair that Zhengzhou is going to be the new base for all foreign Captains, so if you see Location: Chongqing on your recruiter's website, forget it, it's not true. Best ask.
I was considering going there because of the commuting options, but this is obsolete now due to the fact that commuting from Zhengzhou will cost you at least another day.
They seem to have vivid wet dreams about fleet expansion...wonder how this is going to work out when they keep scaring away all the expats...
In the meanwhile there is an official statement from Westair that Zhengzhou is going to be the new base for all foreign Captains, so if you see Location: Chongqing on your recruiter's website, forget it, it's not true. Best ask.
I was considering going there because of the commuting options, but this is obsolete now due to the fact that commuting from Zhengzhou will cost you at least another day.
They seem to have vivid wet dreams about fleet expansion...wonder how this is going to work out when they keep scaring away all the expats...