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Rise! Unemployed pilots in India

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Rise! Unemployed pilots in India

Old 17th Jul 2013, 14:35
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Aloft
Age: 42
Posts: 104
Apache,
Stop your whining and man up. You and others complain about the costs of visa's etc etc etc; but those costs are a fraction of the costs for a useless type rating. But many didn't think twice about dropping $10-20K on a useless type rating. That money would have been better spent on going to Papua, Africa, etc and knocking on doors. Maybe getting a CFI certificate and working at a school in the States would be an option(before you say it can't be done, I know of two Indian nationals that work as Instructors at a school where I occassionaly rent planes). These kids WILL be working as airline pilots in India some day; you will still be arguing on PPRuNe about how it can't be done. And you know why people like those guys and why they will succeed? They have GREAT attitudes; which is something mommy and daddy's money can't buy.

Face time will get you much further than sending out resumes and arguing about the pedantics of certain posts from certain posters on PPRuNe. Will it cost money for securing visa's, tickets? Yes. Is it an uphill battle? Yes. Has it always been an uphill battle? Yes. Is it doable? Yes. It is up to you to differentiate yourself from the 6000 unemployed wet ticket CPL holders. But based on your attitdue, I see you most likely won't; but will continue to give Top Tup and others thousands of excuses why you can't do something and not one reason why you could. Maybe you should change your screen name to Downer Apache; as that would be more appropriate.
What I am trying to do is to light that fire and encourage you. Prove me wrong. You have obviously spent the time and money and you seem like a bright guy. Now you need to take some drastic steps. Yes, it will cost money to visit certain piston operators or get one's CFI but you can make it happen. The question is how badly do you want it.

In any event, good luck with what you decide. And the replies to Top Tup from you and JB: not cool at all.

Last edited by TheBigD; 17th Jul 2013 at 15:20.
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Old 25th Jan 2014, 07:24
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chennai,Tamil Nadu,India
Posts: 1
Exclamation Please Help Me Friends

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"]Hi Everybody,
I am Vignesh,18 Years Old,From India.My Dream Career From My Childhood is to be a Pilot.Just Now I Have Finished My Higher Secondary Schooling And Seeking For Informations.I Have Planned To Do My Flying in Dean International,Miami,USA.I Have Got Positive Reviews About It.But According To This Thread,I am Afraid That Am I Wasting My Dad's Money.I am Not A Rich Family,But From A Middle Class Family Only.Please Help Me What To Do..??? I am Very Much Confused..

One Of My Friend Got Into Any Airline without Type-Rated By Recommendations Of some VVIP's and some Person in the Ministry Of Aviation
Is This Possible in Aviation...????[/FONT]
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Old 25th Jan 2014, 13:22
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,481
Vignesh2528, go to university, get a degree, get a job, earn money, gain a positive credit rating. You are young enough where you can postpone your flying, and utilize your you family's financial resources for a better use, in other words, higher education. You will be a better asset to any airline with a university degree rather than without, no to mention the respect you will command from your Father, and other family members.
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Old 25th Jan 2014, 16:22
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: भारत
Posts: 100
Vignesh
I admire your passion but I will suggest you to take college education 1st, I am graduate so after dping cpl it was easy for me to find a non flying job but most of guys from my flying club were straight out of school so they had not much of choice and most of them ended up sitting at home for years, this can be very depressing.

@CaptJns Never got chance to say, I m reading your posts for quite some time they are very helpful.
Thanks!!
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Old 25th Jan 2014, 22:12
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,481
Thank you for the compliment Ikarus-
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Old 26th Jan 2014, 03:37
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ubiquity
Posts: 363
1)If you are hell bent on getting into this profession, be prepared for a long and hard struggle.

2)If you are using your family's resources, they should be made aware of the financial risk involved.You may have to wait many years before you find a job.

3) DO NOT take a loan to get into this profession.You WILL regret it.

4) This profession involves an endless amount of study.A similar effort could get you a degree in a profession that has many more job opportunities.

5) It is very expensive to keep your licenses current.Every year that you are unemployed you will have to spend money on renewing your licenses/medical etc.Even if you buy a rating, the rating could expire.The budget that you have planned for your training should consider these costs as well !

6)Politicial influence does not ONLY work in Indian aviation.It works everywhere.When you grow older you will realize this.

7) Airline business is unpredictable.I know many pilots who lost their jobs and spent some time unemployed because their company shutdown.And I am not talking only about Kingfisher here.

8)What captjns has recommended is indeed an option.But I personally did not take this route.I struggled after getting a license.I found a job to pay my own expenses and I got a degree while I was unemployed.My Indian parents were fortunately very supportive and understanding during those years.I know others who have chosen this route.No option is an easy option in aviation.

9) This career has been very very hard,but also very rewarding- for me and many others.

Go for it.Good luck !
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Old 26th Jan 2014, 04:40
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Far Side
Posts: 398
Originally Posted by captjns
vignesh2528, go to university, get a degree,
That would be a non-aviation degree, vignesh. Engineering is a good background for flying, but there are many others. As a career backup, I'd recommend accounting. I seriously doubt that there has ever been, or ever will be, a surplus of good accountants.
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Old 26th Jan 2014, 06:06
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ubiquity
Posts: 363
I know many who have taken this route that the others recommend.This is obviously a safer route.It also gives you more time to think this through.But it has its own limitations that you must be aware of.

1) It will take a long long time for you to make enough money to sponsor yourself -unless your starting salary is very high.Do the math.Find out the starting salary of an Engineer or an Accountant.Being very optimistic, give yourself a 10 percent pay rise every year. Now calculate how long it will take you to raise that money.The devil is in details.

2) Careers don't grow on trees either.Any career requires a hell of a lot of effort.Engineering or Accountancy will take a lot of effort.Building that career over long years and then letting it go will be a very hard decision.You will have to start from scratch again.You will be much older by then and it will be a further wait until you return to the same level of financial stability and POSITION that you had in your previous career.If you have a family of your own by then, you will have to include them in your decision.They may not agree with you.A friend of mine took years to convince his wife to change his career. <3

3) When you make a mistake while you are still young, you have a lot of time to recover from those mistakes.Its not the same when you are so much older.

4) One good thing that could happen if you choose the above option is that you might get interested in another career and forget all about aviation.Like I said a degree won't harm you.It will give you a couple of more years to think this through and also provide you with a back up.

5) I highlighted the word position above as I think this is even more important in aviation than anywhere else.The opportunities you get in an airline will depend on your :
a) Seniority in the company ( like how long you have been working with them) b) Your experience ( even the type of aircraft you fly - turbo prop,Jet, piston etc. MATTERS ! ) and unfortunately
c) Your influence ( this depends on your PR skills also)

The type of aircraft you fly matters because your pay is linked to it.For eg:Maybe I love to fly a Cessna but I won't because my pay would be much lesser if I did that. Also you will want to grow and eventually fly bigger,better and different aircraft and even earn more money.If you wait till you can sponsor yourself, you will wait a long time.

Another option is the Airforce of course.

I must also tell you that I am not so pessimistic as some of the others here, regarding the future of Indian aviation.

Speak and inform your Dad regarding the above issues and take his opinion.
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Old 26th Jan 2014, 11:34
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Flight Deck
Posts: 9
vignesh2528

I can only tell you what I have been through,you decide what you want to do.In my opinion,the best option would be to join the Indian Air-force or Coast guard.It not only saves you money but also brings some discipline in life.I could not joint either because of my eyesight(you cannot wear spectacles).
The next option was civil aviation which my parents count not afford,so I ended up doing engineering and then my masters.I was 30yrs when I finally started flying, got my FAA CPL at 33,left America,went through hell to finally get my Indian DGCA CPL at 35yr,all from the money I earned. After all this,I am not able to find an interview,leave alone a job in aviation.Almost all the Airlines in India are asking you to sponsor your type rating by yourself,which is anywhere between 20lakh to 30lakh(Spice-jet).This is additional money after your CPL.And one more thing, better to get your CPL from India,the pain and the bureaucracy to convert your foreign license is just unbearable.
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Old 26th Jan 2014, 12:03
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: zoo
Posts: 79
Vignesh

First of all, Congratulations! You are atleast making an effort to conduct research on the profession before jumping into it. Keep it up!

There is little to say after the comprehensive advice given to you by fellow PPruners. All i would say is that you should avoid putting your money into aviation without atleast some guarantee of employment. So if possible try and go for the Indigo cadet programme. It is a little expensive but trust me you will not regret it. And if you do get a CPL from somewhere else, avoid getting a type rating without a job offer from an airline. Aviation can be a bottomless pit. You can keep throwing money into it and still end up with nothing. Thousands of people have learned this the hard way after losing tons of money.

Military flying(Airforce, Coast Guard, Navy) is also an excellent option. You get good quality training for free and you get paid right from day one, even while you receive training! Try to go for Short Service Commission. When you leave the armed forces with flying experience, it will be easy to find employment with civilian operators. Also, when you have experience, the operator is more likely to pay for your type rating. On the other hand, fresh CPL holders are treated like cash cows and made to pay for their type rating themselves.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 14:06
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: florida
Age: 74
Posts: 107
Angel vignesh

capt apache, and capt vgns, have both given you superb advice, as a retired aviator of some 45 years what I can say is, the airline pilot dream has changed radically for the worst in the last 10 years, no longer is it a "band of brothers" but has become a "dog eat dog" environment, my advice is the same as the 2 capts , get qualified in another (maybe similar) profession and THEN see if you still want to spend part of your salary in pilot training.
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Old 5th Feb 2014, 19:03
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 725
Vignesh

All very good advice. Biggest mistake you will make is letting go your dream to be an aviator while getting your degree.... Make sure you keep that option open...even if it is as a hobby!
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