How to move to New Zealand or Australia from EU
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: in a dirty cockpit
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How to move to New Zealand or Australia from EU
Hi guys,
I falled in love with Oceania, particularly with New Zealand during vacation, and I know it's really complicated for a pilot to move and work there.
Anyone here can give some advices or share experience in order to get a work permit in NZ or Australian residence permit?
Airlines there ask for residence and local ATPL licence but in order to get residency (or permit of stay) you need to have a job offer; it's an endless story!
Thank you for your help!
I falled in love with Oceania, particularly with New Zealand during vacation, and I know it's really complicated for a pilot to move and work there.
Anyone here can give some advices or share experience in order to get a work permit in NZ or Australian residence permit?
Airlines there ask for residence and local ATPL licence but in order to get residency (or permit of stay) you need to have a job offer; it's an endless story!
Thank you for your help!
Last edited by Breakthesilence; 27th Nov 2012 at 09:01.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Australia there is a considerable surplus of pilots versus jobs and many more expatriate Australians who would like to come home. Before you can get a job in Australia you will need Permanent Residency, at the very least, you won't get that without a job and there is no surplus of jobs, only pilots.
Can't speak for NZ but I suspect it won't be very different to Australia.
Can't speak for NZ but I suspect it won't be very different to Australia.
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
NZ's even worse than Australia with regard to excess of local, qualified, unemployed pilots.
Even if by some miracle you got a job offer, that wouldn't in any way qualify you for a work visa. The only people who can get into NZ by that route are "skilled migrants" whose skills are listed on the "Essential Skills Shortage List" Essential Skills In Demand Lists . Pilot has never appeared on the list and I seriously doubt it ever will
The only other ways to a passport are either marrying a local, or qualifying as an "investor" if you have a spare $NZ10 million.
Sorry for being the bearer of bad news but if it makes you feel better you wouldn't have gotten a job there anyway, there are plenty of high time expat kiwis who'd love to go home but can't even get a job offer in the RHS of a small turboprop
Even if by some miracle you got a job offer, that wouldn't in any way qualify you for a work visa. The only people who can get into NZ by that route are "skilled migrants" whose skills are listed on the "Essential Skills Shortage List" Essential Skills In Demand Lists . Pilot has never appeared on the list and I seriously doubt it ever will
The only other ways to a passport are either marrying a local, or qualifying as an "investor" if you have a spare $NZ10 million.
Sorry for being the bearer of bad news but if it makes you feel better you wouldn't have gotten a job there anyway, there are plenty of high time expat kiwis who'd love to go home but can't even get a job offer in the RHS of a small turboprop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Right on the money
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK. You're going to be taking a route which I am planning to take.
Here is the deal. You work out on your Aussie visa by applying as a skilled migrant. The government of western Australia added "Pilots" to the list of skilled migration occupation list.
http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/skill...sindemand.aspx
For starters, its a good way to get into the country. Work towards your PR. Once you get an Aussie PR, you can just jump over. Apply with Jet* or Pacific Blue. Both of them got bases in New Zealand. They would be your only chances next to nil.
PS: This is how I plan to do it(Crazy
). But I don't know about you. All depends on how old you are? Got a family baggage? How many hours and on type? How far are you willing to take it?
Here is the deal. You work out on your Aussie visa by applying as a skilled migrant. The government of western Australia added "Pilots" to the list of skilled migration occupation list.
http://www.migration.wa.gov.au/skill...sindemand.aspx
For starters, its a good way to get into the country. Work towards your PR. Once you get an Aussie PR, you can just jump over. Apply with Jet* or Pacific Blue. Both of them got bases in New Zealand. They would be your only chances next to nil.
PS: This is how I plan to do it(Crazy
). But I don't know about you. All depends on how old you are? Got a family baggage? How many hours and on type? How far are you willing to take it?
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Domaine de la Romanee-Conti
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
1 Post
You'd need to check with an Aussie ... but I believe the fact that "pilot" is on the WA list just means that employers over there can sponsor you for a (non permanent) work visa, after they've advertised locally and had no suitable applicants. Once you have that job offer, you are bound to that employer (not allowed to change jobs), and you are only allowed to work for the length of time specified in the visa. It does not necessarily lead to permanent Aussie or NZ residence.
Like I say, check with a specialist, but I would do a lot of careful research before I spent a fortune on moving to Oz on that basis.
By the way this discussion would probably be more fruitful in the "downunder" forums, nobody from Oz / NZ reads this except us handful of Asian expats.
Like I say, check with a specialist, but I would do a lot of careful research before I spent a fortune on moving to Oz on that basis.
By the way this discussion would probably be more fruitful in the "downunder" forums, nobody from Oz / NZ reads this except us handful of Asian expats.
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You'd need to check with an Aussie ... but I believe the fact that "pilot" is on the WA list just means that employers over there can sponsor you for a (non permanent) work visa, after they've advertised locally and had no suitable applicants.
Rather than a sponsorship visa they are talking about an Independent Skilled Migration Visa. This does lead to permanent residency and does not require sponsorship. After four years, these visa holders are able to apply for citizenship.
The first stage of the application involves applying to CASA for assessment of your licence and their judgement on whether or not you reach the 'skilled' criteria. In short you're going to need an ATPL from decent authority and this will then need to be converted to a CASA licence; so CPL & ATPL Air Law, command IREX etc. Having jumped through all those hoops you'll be given a tick in the box from CASA, saying you're skilled and then the rest of the process begins. At ANY time pilot drops off the list, you lose your ability to apply on that basis. I know one guy who had done his visa medicals, which are the very last part of the process before Adelaide stick the visa in your passport and pilot disappeared from the list. His visa application was rejected, along with the 1000s of $s and >1.5 years of his time.
It amazes me that WA has it on the list but the rest of Oz doesn't (I'll admit I haven't actually looked but I'm going on what was written above). I thought the Skilled Visa was an Australia-wide visa with, in some cases, extra points given to people who were going to take their skill to remote areas. Once you've got the PR visa there's absolutely no reason why you can't move anywhere you want in Oz and work, so it makes no sense that it should be a state-by-state points system. I think I'll go and have a look for myself.........
Edited to add: Mmmm, lots of changes. It seems they've introduced a new system whereby a state needs to sponsor applicants, so that makes the whole WA-specific thing make sense. The points system is still similar and CASA still has to assess the pilot skills but it looks like WA needs more pilots, as the there's so many GA slots in the North and all those empty airliners on the ramp in Perth (yes, that was sarcasm). How a state-sponsored skilled migrant can move around after he's come to Oz I have no idea but I'm sure our government will have it all sorted out because, after all, they have a fantastic record of immigration control
Last edited by Pontius; 29th Nov 2012 at 00:12.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: in a dirty cockpit
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The point is: how can a permanently employed EU pilot go through this complicated procedure without going 2-3 times to AU or NZ (spending lot of time and money) without having a job offer or the chance to attend a pilot assessment which can give you a position there after leaving the present job?
Because that is the way it is.
I can't go over to to EU and start flying planes around for money the same as you can't do it here. What on earth gives you the right to deny me or one of my pilot colleagues (Aussie born or PR's) a seat in a 737? We have no pilot shortage here and never will. Some companies may find it hard to attract quality applicants but that is only because they probably aren't good employers to start with.
If you were unemployed with a family to feed I may have some sympathy but by your own admission your single and fancy free with a permanent contract.
If you want a change of scenery you could try the vast number of agencies recruiting for the Middle and Far East airlines.
If you were unemployed with a family to feed I may have some sympathy but by your own admission your single and fancy free with a permanent contract.
If you want a change of scenery you could try the vast number of agencies recruiting for the Middle and Far East airlines.
You quote having a total of 4400 hours of which 4200 are on 737's presumably as copilot. This suggests you were fortunate enough to walk into a 737 job with only 200 flying hours under your belt.
I think the trouble you will strike is that both in Australia and NZ it is doubtful if any general aviation operator will give you a job on a light single or twin since you lack experience apart from twiddling the autopilot from the RH seat of a 737.
This is not to criticise your experience as an airline pilot but apart from extremely expensive cadet schemes where you start from scratch with that airline as a trainee, there are already a surfeit of experienced general aviation pilots in Australia and NZ, waiting in the endless queue for jobs as copilots.
Your basic CPL 200 hours (forget the 4000 hours copilot on the 737 as in these countries it is worth very little in terms of real decision making experience), puts you well behind the others who may well have over 1500 hours command time on other types. Stay where you are and build command hours on the 737. Your future is then assured in countries that need 737 captains. Australia and NZ are both relatively minor players in aviation generally compared with the huge aviation industry in SE Asia. Both OZ and NZ are pleasant places to live although some see living in Europe more attractive in terms of lovely countryside. And probably more flying jobs too for someone of your experience.
I think the trouble you will strike is that both in Australia and NZ it is doubtful if any general aviation operator will give you a job on a light single or twin since you lack experience apart from twiddling the autopilot from the RH seat of a 737.
This is not to criticise your experience as an airline pilot but apart from extremely expensive cadet schemes where you start from scratch with that airline as a trainee, there are already a surfeit of experienced general aviation pilots in Australia and NZ, waiting in the endless queue for jobs as copilots.
Your basic CPL 200 hours (forget the 4000 hours copilot on the 737 as in these countries it is worth very little in terms of real decision making experience), puts you well behind the others who may well have over 1500 hours command time on other types. Stay where you are and build command hours on the 737. Your future is then assured in countries that need 737 captains. Australia and NZ are both relatively minor players in aviation generally compared with the huge aviation industry in SE Asia. Both OZ and NZ are pleasant places to live although some see living in Europe more attractive in terms of lovely countryside. And probably more flying jobs too for someone of your experience.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: over 'ere
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Try this.... Grow a beard, throw your passport away, wear a white tea towel on your head. Go to Indonesia, pay some scumbag 10G and take a "cruise" to our shores. You might have to spend a couple of months on a tropical island but be assured that after that you will be able to go on welfare, receive ,free of charge, a big screen tv and accommodation and a fairly hefty allowance from the taxpayers of Aus. All this mind you after our spineless government tightened up the illegal immigrant pipeline. Why would you wait in line like all the other law abiding , worthy immigrants?
Moderator
Applicants who have an occupation identified on the Western Australian skilled migration occupation list (shown below) may be eligible to apply for Western Australian State Sponsorship using the following visas:
Skilled – Nominated (subclass 190) visa or Skilled – Nominated (Provisional) (subclass 489) visa
Skilled – Nominated (subclass 190) visa or Skilled – Nominated (Provisional) (subclass 489) visa
I suspect to have any hope of WA Government sponsorship you would need to: a) hold a CASA ATPL and CIR; b) have significant command experience on Fokker 100, Dash 8 or other aircraft types owned and operated by West Australian operators; and c) no Australian applicants for the positions.
And there are conditions attached to those Visas. It will be a long time before you can move anywhere, except of course, overseas again.
It is not impossible to live and work in Australia, but the process is far from simple and you will need particular qualifications and skills which are not currently available from Australian applicants.
Read Centaurus post. I don't think 4,200 FO B737 hours and no GA experience will cut the mustard.....
