Korean Air-why are pilots bailing out?

[Molokai]

Of late there seems to be a number of resignations from KAL. In Shenzhen, I talked to an ex-Korean B777 instructor who claimed that more are waiting on the wings to bail out. A number of expats too were rumored to be leaving soon.

There must be something brewing underneath; been warning ex-colleagues who seem to think that they stand a good chance if they head for SEL for their perpetual recruitment exercise.

To all those ex-KAL jockeys out there, how about contributing your knowledge and insights so that their prospective recruits can make better informed decisions?

[Prince Rupert]

Company's intransigence

Many local Korean pilots have applied to Mainland Chinese Airlines. KAL management have been stonewalling in all negotiations with regards to FTLs, pay reviews and per diem revisions.

Quite a number of expats have resigned too. I know of a former MD11, now B744 skipper who told flight admin to stuff it when they offered a reduced pay contract after 60. A number of A330 drivers are moving to Chinese Airlines too.

A few B777 skippers have bailed out recently. The working atmosphere in KAL can be very adverserial and toxic. Your psychological well being suffers and before you know it, your relationships with your loved ones nose dives.

Their travel benefits have deteriorated but still OK compared to other Asian carriers. Your off days are guaranteed and the pay is always on time. Some cheapos help themselves to the multiple meal coupons too.

Overall, not a gig for long term established airline pilots. Recommended as a short term foray for those on furlough.

[KAL__Aviator]

Some cheapos help themselves to the multiple meal coupons too.

Apart from agreeing with every point that you highlighted, I'm afraid you're no longer current with the above observation.
My pals still in KAL tell me that there is no more meal coupons, for cheapo or anyone else.
Still, your other tips are true. But hey, the bottom of the barrel that the agencies are scrapping now won't care, they will still flock there for a piece of kimchi despite any warnings from anyone. That's why now the arrogant manner of which management deals with the pilots. Foreigners can forget about any pay or even per diem adjustment, just take it and leave it. Oh one more thing, really glad that I quit before the onset of 3 pilot operations with one skipper stretching to 12 hours 30 mins, with factorized no overtime pay. Enjoy your ride boys.

[Geragau]

From the MH 653 hijack thread,

Quote:
I was told the kimchiland chap moving to ey is thr former pipe smoking aa. He must have missed what tiny was enjoying for a while...bollywood trysts. Anybody remembered his " singing in the rain " with poziah at KCH? It was hilarious!

A Malaysian B777 instructor has resigned and a few more may follow suit. Some Europe based pilots are also looking at Turkish Airlines. I was told that KAL is not too worried as they expect another down turn soon. They are in a real hurry to get rid of the aging B744 and also not exercising their additional A380 options as the dugong has proven to be a lumbering loser.

[SpaceNeedle]

Are there expat instructors in KAL? I thought the only foreign trainers are the Boeing/Alteon instructors and checkers.

[gerago]

A Malaysian B777 instructor has resigned and a few more may follow suit.

Who is he joining? EK or the other airline which we cannot talk about on Pprune?

[mohdawang]

Edtahi, so I heard...that mob we cannot talk about.

[Paishinel]

Ex-colleagues at AK & EK mentioned an ex-AirFarce C130 hero at KAL went to China but flung sim over there! Is he still as noisy as ever, maybe this episode would shut him up!

Things are good in the sandpit despite all the whining and bellyaching on the ME forum; mainly because we have a lot of riff raffs hauled way up above their station.

[Mat Kilau]

AK sources said changchanggchongchong went to mainland China for sim preemployment but terkandas. Noisy....ain't all Air farce fellas bellicose? A far cry from those grovelling days as eff-oh on the B734 with yes sir this and yesiree that! At one time even boasted he was the one to coach jimmy how to handled the sidestick when they were up in kimchiland training! If you run into him at KLIA, you should see the swagger as if he is in the super league... pathetic!

[ngapsayot]

Ran into a Korean management pilot in BXB who was very impressed with his Balinese style house! I must really learn to brown nose and invite management Arab sheikh type to buka puasa at my house to impress! Then I can really go far, maybe A330 instructorship besides teaching jimmy cricket how to sidestick

[bungacengkeh]

From the " Firefly ATR argument in the flight deck " thread :

Evenrude


Probationary PPRuNer

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Debatable
Posts: 2


Clarification - FY 3609 17 March 2012
Fact : The incident did happen.
Fact : Both pilots were locals, NOT expats.
Fact : The Captain was fired.
Fact : The Second Officer (low time first officer) was grounded for 2 weeks
Fact : The main cockpit door did swing open during takeoff.
Fact : The Captain was shouting so loudly that the passengers could hear him.
Fact : It wasn't an argument, it was the Captain shouting at the Second Officer because the Second Officer questioned a non SOP procedure (selecting high bank for takeoff) that was implemented by the Captain.
Fact : The incident was reported by a Korean Airlines Captain that was a passenger on the flight.

Was the busy body Korean Air Captain I.I who was to join Fire-fly sometime last year?

[Calvin Hops]

It's great to bail out at your own terms rather than be unceremoniously dumped when the crunch comes. The crunch is sure in the works. They have lost some 38% of their cargo business and Samsung has sworn off ever using KAL again for their quick shipping of electronics. The B744 boys are not likely to get their contracts renewed...there are many locals from the B744 clamouring to convert to the T-7.

The ever going rounds of recruitment on the B777 is an industrial ruse for tough bargaining with the flight crew union.

Many A330 pilots are looking to bail out to the likes of Hainan, China Southern, Air China, HKA and Air Asia X. A few had actually left, saved for that Malaysian alluded to in the earlier post...flunked at pre-employment and he is a boastful KAL A330 instructor at that! So much for the claimed high Korean Air standards!

[nicholas.nickle]

They lost quite a few from the A330 the last couple of years. The T & Cs have deteriorated, no thanks to many newcomers who abused the privileges accorded to the expats.

I heard that now even if your privilege travel seats are confirmed you can expect to be bumped off anytime without warning. If a Korean pax, unconfirmed and coming in at the very last minute shows up, your confirmed seat is at risk. KAL ground staff officers and managers can easily take away your seats at their whims and fancies.

I am sure many more are looking to jump ship. Once the Chinese airlines, and Turkish improve on their commuting arrangements, the flood gates will open.

[billabongbill]

My pals still in KAL tell me that there is no more meal coupons, for cheapo or anyone else.

What! No more free meal coupons? What are the foreign pilots going to do about breakfast, lunch and dinner? Can they now charge to Korean Air their meals at the Aussie fish & chips? Many are really hard up after the exes took them to the cleaners and they now have child support to deal with besides paying for their present step children too!

[Kalistan]

I was told by some former colleagues at KAL that the foreign pilots are still able to get free " western " meals at their flt ops office restaurants. Maybe no coupons, which is outdated. I heard the Koreans are very high tech, so now they just have to use their RFID company ID cards to get sumptuous meals.

[Germanflyer]

It's like I always say...."I won't be impressed with technology until the day I can download food....".
How are their women?! The locals and/or the cabin crew..
Just a thought.

[KAL__Aviator]

How are their women?! The locals and/or the cabin crew..

If you're thinking what we think you're thinking, forget about it. This is one of the worst airlines to work for in terms of crew interaction (Asiana being the worst). Let me sum it up for you, the cabin crew dont give a crap about foreigners, and they hate the local korean pilots. Some may argue that the younger ones are nice, but none will take the leap and risk being seen with you. Their arrogance is very well backed up by their overall ignorance and some times stupidity. As we know, how can you feel anything when you don't even know you're that dumb?
The job with Korean is now for the desperate, and yes, many are divorced and free meals are a big attraction for them on their budget.
Over here in China, the koreans pilots will find it no easier. ATC violation is a daily threat, suspension of license is not uncommon, watching what you eat, where you go is a must for for foreigners. The only good thing, the money is much better than Korean. I get to shorten my retirement plan by 1/3.

[TWN PPL]

Cheapos? Hell Yes! I use company free laundry, meal and transportation all the times. And get reimbursed on taxi. Should I be paying out of my own wallet?

[Keylime]

How are their women?! The locals and/or the cabin crew..

One thing to remember about KAL specifically and Asia in general is the peer pressure. The Korean women will not put themselves in a position to be ostracized by their peers(or seniors, as they call them). However, a colleague who is flying for a Middle Eastern carrier has some Korean cabin crew and to quote him "they are like rabbits as long as you give them a gift, and they really like Louis Vuitton bags". Does that spell it out for you?

[Al E. Vator]

Why doesn't Korean AL just treat pilots of all races with fairness, decency and respect? Is that too much to hope for?
That way most of their recruiting problems would be alleviated if not solved.