Air India stops negotiation adopts new strategy
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I don't understand what these chaps are up to!
First, they go on a strike which is ILLEGAL as per the Indian court of law.
Second, they try to scare off their replacements against joining NACIL, by threatening to label them as scabs.
And now, this clear-cut blackmail to the management by going on indefinite hunger strike, that too after around 48 days of striking work!!!
Shows how desperate they are now!!!
First, they go on a strike which is ILLEGAL as per the Indian court of law.
Second, they try to scare off their replacements against joining NACIL, by threatening to label them as scabs.
And now, this clear-cut blackmail to the management by going on indefinite hunger strike, that too after around 48 days of striking work!!!
Shows how desperate they are now!!!
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And seeing these events unfold reminds me of a quote of Capt. JRD Tata (I prefer calling him Captain ), who was the pioneer of aviation in India as well as the father of Air India.
This quote mentions how grateful he was to his employees of the likes of V.G. Gadgil(VG), who was initially an apprentice but finally happened to be the Chief Engineer at AI.
"VG worked on all our aircraft - Puss Moth, Foxmoth, Miles Merlin, Q-6, Waco, Rapide, DH-86, Stinson Trimotor, Beechcraft, DC-2s, Dakotas, Vikings, Constellations and Boeings. All through these difficult years VG was always there and rose to be our Chief Engineer.
VG is a real old-timer and personified the early birds who had come in with us right from the start (of Air India). They lived and dreamed the same dreams that I dreamt, and build up this great airline with their sweat. Today when I see so many young men who have never done a day's real hard work in their lives, who think that the airline which they did nothing to build up, owes them a good living for a minimum of work and an occasional strike, who have no understanding of what this airline stands for and means to people like VG and myself, is it surprising that I should feel particularly grateful to men like him (VG)?"
I see some relevance here
), who was the pioneer of aviation in India as well as the father of Air India.This quote mentions how grateful he was to his employees of the likes of V.G. Gadgil(VG), who was initially an apprentice but finally happened to be the Chief Engineer at AI.
"VG worked on all our aircraft - Puss Moth, Foxmoth, Miles Merlin, Q-6, Waco, Rapide, DH-86, Stinson Trimotor, Beechcraft, DC-2s, Dakotas, Vikings, Constellations and Boeings. All through these difficult years VG was always there and rose to be our Chief Engineer.
VG is a real old-timer and personified the early birds who had come in with us right from the start (of Air India). They lived and dreamed the same dreams that I dreamt, and build up this great airline with their sweat. Today when I see so many young men who have never done a day's real hard work in their lives, who think that the airline which they did nothing to build up, owes them a good living for a minimum of work and an occasional strike, who have no understanding of what this airline stands for and means to people like VG and myself, is it surprising that I should feel particularly grateful to men like him (VG)?"
I see some relevance here
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These children need a good old fashioned swat across the head with a rolled up newspaper and sent to be without supper. Oh wait, I forgot these gabronies are going on a hunger strike for 48 hours. Oh wait... that's what they said. Bet their hunger strike lasts about ummmm 4 hours... from their last repast.
Fire the bloody lot, take their licenses away... and let real adults man the Air India equipment.
Fire the bloody lot, take their licenses away... and let real adults man the Air India equipment.
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Well quoted Stick Rudder
But the way the Civil Aviation Minister has dealt with these guys is applauding
I presume if some more booting is given they will resume work. These guys hadn't seen it coming at all (sacking of 100+ pilots)
But the way the Civil Aviation Minister has dealt with these guys is applauding
I presume if some more booting is given they will resume work. These guys hadn't seen it coming at all (sacking of 100+ pilots)
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Captjins and all
Good posts.
Guess Indian tax payers are finally fed up of supporting these thousands babus living at large, like true marajahs.
But I read somewhere that IFALPA is in support of them and would take action in case AI plans to hire replacements for them.
Guess Indian tax payers are finally fed up of supporting these thousands babus living at large, like true marajahs.
But I read somewhere that IFALPA is in support of them and would take action in case AI plans to hire replacements for them.
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Appalling behaviour!
Thank you gentlemen, for demonstrating how inhumane and ignorant we humans are.
1) Anyone dying of hunger is certainly not a joke, for whatever reasons that might be.
2) It is not a 48 hour thing, some of the folks are at it for the past 5 days.
3) A few have been hospitalised, with more critical on their Ground Zero.
4) They are unpaid for since January.
5) With them being trained on 787s, it will save their national airline some taxpayer money as their training is cheaper than the gentlemen from their Airbus fleet.
6) Like I said, it will SAVE THE TAXPAYER money currently being pumped into the airline, perhaps which can be used to pay their salaries.
7) I would say that they work harder than their Airbus counterparts, apparently their union has a highly restrictive FDTL, which means these IPG pilots fly more, and thus do not deserve this heartless behaviour from those blokes at the Ministry.
8) Not everyone is a offspring of their Executive pilots. If they were, wont they be "unwell" to support their kids as well? They aren't, which speaks volumes on this point.
9) This strike is still technically not illegal, as the matter is sub-judice. It is an industrial matter, which means only the Labour Comissioner has the authority and jurisdiction to term it illegal or not. Which he hasn't, needless to say.
10) Once again for those folks who are talking about how these striking lot are whining about 787s, TRAINING BOEING PILOTS ON A BOEING PLANE SAVES MORE TAXPAYER MONEY THAN TRAINING AIRBUS PILOTS ON A BOEING PLANE.
Give them some respect for standing up for their beliefs, can't say most of us can do what they are doing. If you are thinking that I'm biased in favor of this lot, look at the points above once again. No information given here is wrong, none at all. All those folks who will raise questions on the above are either doing it because they will either be suffering from plain stupidity, or are deliberately spreading misinformation. Hope we get an IPG pilot here to speak up on their behalf, perhaps there are more points that I have left out. Credit to that lot.
1) Anyone dying of hunger is certainly not a joke, for whatever reasons that might be.
2) It is not a 48 hour thing, some of the folks are at it for the past 5 days.
3) A few have been hospitalised, with more critical on their Ground Zero.
4) They are unpaid for since January.
5) With them being trained on 787s, it will save their national airline some taxpayer money as their training is cheaper than the gentlemen from their Airbus fleet.
6) Like I said, it will SAVE THE TAXPAYER money currently being pumped into the airline, perhaps which can be used to pay their salaries.
7) I would say that they work harder than their Airbus counterparts, apparently their union has a highly restrictive FDTL, which means these IPG pilots fly more, and thus do not deserve this heartless behaviour from those blokes at the Ministry.
8) Not everyone is a offspring of their Executive pilots. If they were, wont they be "unwell" to support their kids as well? They aren't, which speaks volumes on this point.
9) This strike is still technically not illegal, as the matter is sub-judice. It is an industrial matter, which means only the Labour Comissioner has the authority and jurisdiction to term it illegal or not. Which he hasn't, needless to say.
10) Once again for those folks who are talking about how these striking lot are whining about 787s, TRAINING BOEING PILOTS ON A BOEING PLANE SAVES MORE TAXPAYER MONEY THAN TRAINING AIRBUS PILOTS ON A BOEING PLANE.
Give them some respect for standing up for their beliefs, can't say most of us can do what they are doing. If you are thinking that I'm biased in favor of this lot, look at the points above once again. No information given here is wrong, none at all. All those folks who will raise questions on the above are either doing it because they will either be suffering from plain stupidity, or are deliberately spreading misinformation. Hope we get an IPG pilot here to speak up on their behalf, perhaps there are more points that I have left out. Credit to that lot.
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I know! Those were the gentlemen from their Airbus fleet. Further justifing the striking pilots' demands! You do not mix Airbus and Boeing anywhere in the world. Gosh, will that dumb management ever understand that?
EDIT: IFALPA has also come out in support of these guys too. This is getting worldwide attention, not the best way though.
EDIT: IFALPA has also come out in support of these guys too. This is getting worldwide attention, not the best way though.
Last edited by edisontrent; 28th Jun 2012 at 16:23.
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Who are you? Never mix Airbus and boeing get over yourself child. Flown both back and forth a couple times.
PS; IFALPA support yes but never a hunger strike thats just stupid!
PS; IFALPA support yes but never a hunger strike thats just stupid!
Last edited by fatbus; 28th Jun 2012 at 16:31.
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Edison,
You are a dumb only child aren't you. I honestly hope so anyways.
AI has lost over 600 crorers by way of those underachievers' 2 months of striking action. And you are talking of a few thousands extra per airbus pilot who would train on the 787. With a total of a dozen of them why don't you do the math.
Oh, I forget. You are an imbecile. Feel sorry for you and your likes.
The I, ME and MYSELF syndrome couldn't have been written for anyone other that the striking AI pilots. Absolutely apt and befitting.
For once, I tip my hat to the Civil Aviation Ministry. Although those morons aren't too far behind in the upper stores category.
So enjoy while the party lasts. And lose some weight in the bargain. A few less double black pegs can only help your sickened livers.
Heard one pilot gave up and ran home today. Nurse IV'd him some jonny walker black label swiped from the Newark-Delhi first class.
He has now made a full recovery(hic) and is back in the 'hunger strike'.....
You are a dumb only child aren't you. I honestly hope so anyways.
AI has lost over 600 crorers by way of those underachievers' 2 months of striking action. And you are talking of a few thousands extra per airbus pilot who would train on the 787. With a total of a dozen of them why don't you do the math.
Oh, I forget. You are an imbecile. Feel sorry for you and your likes.
The I, ME and MYSELF syndrome couldn't have been written for anyone other that the striking AI pilots. Absolutely apt and befitting.
For once, I tip my hat to the Civil Aviation Ministry. Although those morons aren't too far behind in the upper stores category.
So enjoy while the party lasts. And lose some weight in the bargain. A few less double black pegs can only help your sickened livers.
Heard one pilot gave up and ran home today. Nurse IV'd him some jonny walker black label swiped from the Newark-Delhi first class.
He has now made a full recovery(hic) and is back in the 'hunger strike'.....
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I know! Those were the gentlemen from their Airbus fleet. Further justifing the striking pilots' demands! You do not mix Airbus and Boeing anywhere in the world. Gosh, will that dumb management ever understand that?
EDIT: IFALPA has also come out in support of these guys too. This is getting worldwide attention, not the best way though.
EDIT: IFALPA has also come out in support of these guys too. This is getting worldwide attention, not the best way though.
1. If that airline decides to go all Boeing, get rid of all Airbus pilots because, according to you, an Airbus will never successfully complete the Boeing Type Rating Course; or
2. Stick with Airbus products as their current Airbus pilots will never be able to successfully complete a type rating course on any other aircraft be it a Boeing, Embrear, Bombardier... or what ever.
I guess American, Delta, Korean, Lufthansa, British, to name a few have it all wrong, and you have it all figured out correctly.
We are not talking about a flying club here or the good old boys network where pencil whipping an IR/LR may be the the norm. If a chap can't cut it, even after being recycled, than off the property they go. The instructors and check airmen in Singapore are legitimate and professional in their positions, and call it as they see it.
As long as IFALPA has the potential of increasing it's income base, they'll support wearing panties on the outside of uniforms too.
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Ummmm...wasn't it a standard practice for donkeys years for AI to induct pilots on to the A-310's and then send them on the B-747's?
Jet Airways sends pilots from the B-737's or ATR to the A-330's.....does that make them an unsafe airline? :S
Jet Airways sends pilots from the B-737's or ATR to the A-330's.....does that make them an unsafe airline? :S
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@Geebz
Businesses do NOT see employees as assets.
Employees are liabilities - look on the balance sheet.
Equipment (planes, desks, etc.) are assets.
It's not right, but that's how it is.
Businesses do NOT see employees as assets.
Employees are liabilities - look on the balance sheet.
Equipment (planes, desks, etc.) are assets.
It's not right, but that's how it is.
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Mr. Gestapo
So I've been called:
1) A dumb and only child.
2) An imbecile.
Why don't you counter my points, instead of attacking me personally? Do you have a certain vendetta against me? Do you think that an attempt to deface my reputation or calling me names might render my pro-pilots viewpoint null and void?
Air India pilots have been called:
1) Underachievers.
2) Obsessed with themselves.
3) Morons.
I'm sure that those evacuations from Tripoli, Japan, Kuwait, etc would go a long way from removing any doubts about their achievements. Also, flying with so many of your national civil aviation authority's special flight duty dispensations would say that they are certainly no morons. Also, flying without pay for such a long time and also without leave for the better part of their career for thesake of passengers due to crew shortage would lay waste to claims that remark about them being obsessed with themselves.
Certain other points raised by you were:
1) Cost of training per Airbus pilot with respect to the Boeing lot.
Average cost of training a Boeing 737/777 pilot on a 787 is approximately $50,000, including your country-specific check rides. For an Airbus 320/330 rated pilot to convert on the 787s is approximately $200,000. Multiply that by 8 crew per aircraft for 27 planes and then you tell me how many would your airline save? I did the math, why don't you? It ain't a few thousands, my friend, it runs in a few millions. And then that's only dollars that you calculated. Now how many people could be paid their pending dues February onwards with that kinda money? How much will you get?
2) A certain pilot running off from his hunger strike for a drink fed to him by a company doctor supposedly pilfered from a flight to come back and continue on his hunger strike.
Well, I don't know what is going on back there now. So I can't really comment on anyone quitting on his manner of agitation. But you seem to be sure about him drinking, yes? Have you seen it? Are you sure it was pilfered? Did you accuse a company doctor of giving him alcohol? Not only you seem delusional, but having a severe lack of respect for medical ethics as well.
Even if he/she did quit, I'm sure that you can set a new world record on going hungry, yes? Since those striking pilots aren't able to stick it out for a few days without food, you can show them how it's done.
Even if one pilot did quit, how many are there still protesting, now for the 6th or the 7th day without food? Surely, one person ran off but close to 10-15 are still there sticking it out. Despite that, if your source of information says that he's joined back, after his little drink you say, I guess they all got some balls going against the tide, and they keep coming back for more.
My friend, except calling you delusional, you might notice I did not have to call you any names or disrespected you. I answered all your points with sufficient reason and justification behind it. You don't have to get rude to make yourself heard. This is a public forum, and I would appreciate if we all share some mutual respect here.
On another note, were you so anti-pilot during last year's strike as well?
1) A dumb and only child.
2) An imbecile.
Why don't you counter my points, instead of attacking me personally? Do you have a certain vendetta against me? Do you think that an attempt to deface my reputation or calling me names might render my pro-pilots viewpoint null and void?
Air India pilots have been called:
1) Underachievers.
2) Obsessed with themselves.
3) Morons.
I'm sure that those evacuations from Tripoli, Japan, Kuwait, etc would go a long way from removing any doubts about their achievements. Also, flying with so many of your national civil aviation authority's special flight duty dispensations would say that they are certainly no morons. Also, flying without pay for such a long time and also without leave for the better part of their career for thesake of passengers due to crew shortage would lay waste to claims that remark about them being obsessed with themselves.
Certain other points raised by you were:
1) Cost of training per Airbus pilot with respect to the Boeing lot.
Average cost of training a Boeing 737/777 pilot on a 787 is approximately $50,000, including your country-specific check rides. For an Airbus 320/330 rated pilot to convert on the 787s is approximately $200,000. Multiply that by 8 crew per aircraft for 27 planes and then you tell me how many would your airline save? I did the math, why don't you? It ain't a few thousands, my friend, it runs in a few millions. And then that's only dollars that you calculated. Now how many people could be paid their pending dues February onwards with that kinda money? How much will you get?
2) A certain pilot running off from his hunger strike for a drink fed to him by a company doctor supposedly pilfered from a flight to come back and continue on his hunger strike.
Well, I don't know what is going on back there now. So I can't really comment on anyone quitting on his manner of agitation. But you seem to be sure about him drinking, yes? Have you seen it? Are you sure it was pilfered? Did you accuse a company doctor of giving him alcohol? Not only you seem delusional, but having a severe lack of respect for medical ethics as well.
Even if he/she did quit, I'm sure that you can set a new world record on going hungry, yes? Since those striking pilots aren't able to stick it out for a few days without food, you can show them how it's done.
Even if one pilot did quit, how many are there still protesting, now for the 6th or the 7th day without food? Surely, one person ran off but close to 10-15 are still there sticking it out. Despite that, if your source of information says that he's joined back, after his little drink you say, I guess they all got some balls going against the tide, and they keep coming back for more.
My friend, except calling you delusional, you might notice I did not have to call you any names or disrespected you. I answered all your points with sufficient reason and justification behind it. You don't have to get rude to make yourself heard. This is a public forum, and I would appreciate if we all share some mutual respect here.
On another note, were you so anti-pilot during last year's strike as well?
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For others
What I meant was that Airbus to Boeing takes some time and money. It is possible, of course. Any average pilot wouldn't have a problem. But put that in context of an airline's financial crunch and cost savings, won't it make more sense to train a Boeing guy on Boeing and an Airbus guy on Airbus? We all have done ratings before. We know how much it costs.
Someone mentioned about AI's former conversions for pilots from A310s to B747/777 here. Further clarification: control column, control stick. That's what I was talking about, simply put. 310 has a column, similar to the Boeings in general. Thus it is "easier" for him to transit to a Boeing. B-B and an A-A conversions are thus easier, financially beneficial and thus, a wiser move. Although Jet Airways has a primary fleet of 737 and 330. I guess they won't have much of a choice, their 777s are mostly leased out I heard. No way it makes them unsafe, I haven't heard of any significant incidents in all my years.
Someone mentioned about AI's former conversions for pilots from A310s to B747/777 here. Further clarification: control column, control stick. That's what I was talking about, simply put. 310 has a column, similar to the Boeings in general. Thus it is "easier" for him to transit to a Boeing. B-B and an A-A conversions are thus easier, financially beneficial and thus, a wiser move. Although Jet Airways has a primary fleet of 737 and 330. I guess they won't have much of a choice, their 777s are mostly leased out I heard. No way it makes them unsafe, I haven't heard of any significant incidents in all my years.
Last edited by edisontrent; 29th Jun 2012 at 11:51.
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Edison,
I admire your spirited defence of the AI pilots here.You are the lone voice in this wilderness of disdain.
However, the AI pilots on strike have lost the initiative. Trying to go on a hunger strike and grab the moral high ground will get no sympathy from anyone.If they had made this about not being paid or unions not being consulted on lost seniority when IA and AI were merged, there might have been a few sympathisers on this forum and in the public.They chose to make this about wanting first crack at the new toy because they are the "international" pilots.Sorry,my friend, despite your assertions , that smacks of looking out for themselves and self interest.
Besides, nobody has died yet of a hunger strike.You know why ? Because that is just a sham.If anyone had not ingested nourishment for as many days, they should have been in a coma by now.Obviously, they are being fed and watered from the back door.
And, with all due respect, if you want to be treated respectfully here,maybe ,just maybe ,you should put up an objective defence rather than an emotional one?
Alt3.
I admire your spirited defence of the AI pilots here.You are the lone voice in this wilderness of disdain.
However, the AI pilots on strike have lost the initiative. Trying to go on a hunger strike and grab the moral high ground will get no sympathy from anyone.If they had made this about not being paid or unions not being consulted on lost seniority when IA and AI were merged, there might have been a few sympathisers on this forum and in the public.They chose to make this about wanting first crack at the new toy because they are the "international" pilots.Sorry,my friend, despite your assertions , that smacks of looking out for themselves and self interest.
Besides, nobody has died yet of a hunger strike.You know why ? Because that is just a sham.If anyone had not ingested nourishment for as many days, they should have been in a coma by now.Obviously, they are being fed and watered from the back door.
And, with all due respect, if you want to be treated respectfully here,maybe ,just maybe ,you should put up an objective defence rather than an emotional one?
Alt3.
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Air India stops negotiation adopts new strategy
I'm here all in favour of what Edison mentioned. He has mentioned nothing other than the facts. I see a lot of others here trying to ridicule him or put him down. Everyone else is only assuming that the hunger strike is a sham, instead why not get in touch with one of those who are actually doing it and get the facts right or better still, try doing the hungry bit back in your kitchens, just to figure out how tough it is. I tried fasting for a while and what can I say, I only felt even more hungrier. I have been in touch with a few of those and I totally admire their spirit for the cause. Also, there are Dr's present there from reputed hospitals who are checking on them regularly apart from the company doctors. And those needing hospitalisation are being moved. No one is left to die. And why should they. These pilots are only bringing the matter to attention which is not being addressed. They have certain genuine concerns which are not discussed but brushed under the carpet as if these concerns don't exist at all.
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Sorry... no sympathy for the brats who are not going to play with the new toys. As for the pay issue???? what schmuck in their right mind would show up for work knowing they won't get paid for an indefinite period of time, realizing there are opportunities abroad? Definitely not the sharpest knives in the draws... ya figure
?
Well as a conciliation to the dieters, they can apply with QATAR. If they pass the assessment they may be assigned to the 787... The best part is that QATAR pays on time too
. Oh QATAR doesn't hire adolescents... do they.
?Well as a conciliation to the dieters, they can apply with QATAR. If they pass the assessment they may be assigned to the 787... The best part is that QATAR pays on time too
. Oh QATAR doesn't hire adolescents... do they.
Last edited by captjns; 30th Jun 2012 at 13:17.