DGCA license problem.

[aqswde12345]

Guys,

DGCA did not process my application because out of the 15 hours recency I did, 12 hours were taken up for various tests/checks. the remaining 3 hours time building I did with passenger onboard, I was still PIC. They sent me a letter today stating that these 3 hours cannot be considered PIC as I was not solo.

Need some advice guys, Is there anyway I can go talk to them or do I have to re-do the 3 hours?

Thanks

[cyrilroy21]

There is absolutely no reason to do anymore flying than what you already have done .
Sometimes the DGCA themselves do not know their own rules .
Nowhere in the CAR's or the aircraft rules of 1937 does it mention that you need the hours to be SOLO . It specifically says Pilot In Command

AIRCRAFT RULE, 1937

(6) Flight time spent in performing, under supervision of a pilot-in-command, the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command may be logged as pilot-in-command provided the person is entitled and authorized to fly in command of that type of aeroplane by virtue of the ratings and privileges of his pilot’s licence. In all other cases, such flight time shall be logged as co-pilot with appropriate indication in the remarks column.



AIRCRAFT RULE, 1937

(ii) not less than fifteen hours time as Pilot-in-Command flight time within a period of six months immediately preceding the date of application

I really dont see how the DGCA can justify that letter they sent you .

Could you publish the name of the licensing officer who sent you that letter ?

[aqswde12345]

Thanks for the reply. The officers name is V.P. Singh.

Any advice on how I should go about this matter will be helpful.

[equinox123]

This is absolutely not done....who on earth gives that DGCA F*** the authority to do or over ride what is given as per the CAR...........he has no biz to reject your application.........all u need is 15 hour PIC,and not SOLO and thats what the CAR says and that is what you have........so ure good to go my friend........go and have it complained.......this is not fair..........

[cyrilroy21]

I had a hunch that it would be VP Singh . He is the kind of person who usually raises these kind of issues .
I have seen him reject duchess endorsements while at the same time other dgca officers were approving it ( duchess no longer accepted by the way )

I would start by trying to call him and explaining the your situation to him .
In lots of flying schools in India students go straight from SPL to CPL .
These students can only log PIC when they are SOLO . They cannot carry passengers on board .
He might be thinking on similar lines .

Explain to him that you are already qualified to act as PIC and that nowhere within the DGCA CAR's does it mention that the hours have to be flown SOLO

If it dosent get solved over the phone then be prepared to go to Delhi and start meeting a few DGCA officials like Ashutosh Vashisht ( helpful guy ) and DC Sharma ( head of licensing )

Last option is to meet the Director General.....

[estranged soul]

the remaining 3 hours time building I did with passenger onboard, I was still PIC. They sent me a letter today stating that these 3 hours cannot be considered PIC as I was not solo.

@aqswde12345

First question ... how did DGCA or this V.P Singh even find out that you a carried passenger on board in those 3 hours ???

If you yourself mentioned that to the DGCA, then to put it very politely .. you're not very smart.

DGCA babus are illiterate "chutiyas" (as they say in hindi) who love paperwork and nothing else.
Whether you carried passengers, some parcels, a dog, or a bag of horse dung with you on board, it does not matter. You were the pilot in command and hence you log PIC and meet the requirements.
As far as DGCA licensing and paperwork is concerned, you should have simply logged those hours as SOLO and avoided all this unnecessary and avoidable crap.

P.S. Lesson learnt : Your qualifications, ability, capability, performance etc do not make any jack sh!t of a difference.

Your paperwork does.

[aqswde12345]

@cyrilroy21, will do that thanks...

I submitted my papers in Oct. I got the above response from DGCA on 7th Jan along with a request for an extra letter. My Canadian IR expired on 1st Jan. Will this be a problem? I heard ratings and recency is frozen during processing. All the documents were not returned to me, only originals and the shortfalls letter.

[hitesh.ahire]

Hi Guys,

I have experienced similar issue.

I had submitted my papers to DGCA back in November 2011, today they returned my file stating that I have not submitted my School leaving certificate for Date of Birth verification ( I had submitted my College leaving certificate)...

250 Nm X-ctry flight should be day VFR..I have included some instrument time also. (however thats not mentioned on DGCA website, it jus says Day check nothing about VFR).
LICENSING RULES AND REGULATIONS)

They have demanded sortie wise statement of instrument time in original.

Signal Reception test report in original.

Specify distance flown during each PIC X-ctry flight

I'm highly surprise as I have attached all of the above documents stamped by the school authorities.
I'm not sure what they are looking for.

2ndly My Recency has lapsed already.

What am I suppose to do now?? Please throw some light guys..

[cyrilroy21]

@hitesh

Who is the DGCA officer handling your file ?

[equinox123]

So guys any idea on how to log in the required 5 hr of instrument time we need in the last 6 months?........Hitesh's application was rejected coz he logged in instrument time on his 250 Nm cross country.......so how else are we gonna log in instrument time?..........i guess we have to fly for more than 15 hours to achieve that ..by the way DGCA says 250 Nm VFR cross country by day...where does it say VFR or IFR?............guys plz comment coz im goin for my recency in another week or so.....and im in a dilemma........
are there any guys who wud be goin in for DGCA open house...............plz let us know.......

[LieDetector]

The 250 and the 120 Nm x country sorties are by definition supposed to be solo, why on earth would you fly it as IFR?

You cannot.

[cyrilroy21]

@LieDetector

The 250nm and 120nm xc are flying tests/checks that you are supposed to do with and examiner or instructor on board . How exactly do you fly them solo ?

Now when you are flying solo xc what difference does it make whether you are on a VFR or IFR flight plan ?

[cyrilroy21]

Also is it true that you have to do the 250nm by day 120nm by night after the GFT and IR check ?

[equinox123]

Any body from the forum attending the DGCA OPEN HOUSE next week..........plz reply..........need to address a few questions?

[hitesh.ahire]

Hi,

The Officer in charge is Mr. Vashistha.
I heard, hes a nice guy.

I'm planning to visit and request them to consider my application. Since, its highly unaffordable to retrain...

[cyrilroy21]

Is it Mr. Vasistha that sent you the letter ?
He might be incharge but sometimes VP Singh also handles various licensing cases


Yes he is a nice guy . He himself told me that if the FAA let you log it as PIC then you can log it as PIC ( regarding flying the seneca for recency )

If you are not from delhi or anywhere nearby delhi try and call him up between 4pm and 5.30 pm

Explain to him that nowhere within the DGCA CARS or flowchart does it mention SOLO and as per your foreign license you are allowed to fly as PIC with passengers on board .
This is unlike someone who has trained in India and only has a SPL . Hence these guys can only log PIC hours when they are flying SOLO

[hitesh.ahire]

@Lie Detector

Hi,
I first completed my IPC and Biannual flight review..then I've flown the 250 X-ctry by day. (VFR & IFR).
However, I tried to Include 5 hours of Instrument time within the 15 hours of Recency, that's where the problem occured.

Since Bi-annual review and IPC together take around 3 - 4 hours.
250 X-ctry takes around 4.5 hours.
120 Takes around 2 hours
Day check : 1 hour
Night check : 1 hour
Instrument check : 1 hour.
Solo t/o landings by day: 1 hour
Solo T/o Landings by Night: 1 hour
Instrument Total time required : 5 hours.

It's difficult to include 5 hours of Instrument time within 15 hours of Recency.

P.S: I've done the same Recency training what my friend did a couple of months before me. He never had any such Objections from DGCA.
So I guess, they verify your Log book entries and apply their unbeatable bullying skills on a Lotery basis.

[Left Wing]

is multi-engine rating mandatory for DGCA to issue a CPL or is it an option ? can I to a A320 type rating without multi-engine rating

[St_Elmo]

How we do this Re-current Flying in Indian Flying Clubs:-
Familiarization: 1:30 (0:45 Day/0:45 Night) Dual.
15 Hrs Solo/PIC with 5 hours by Night
250 X-Country (250 Nms Total Dist, Straight Line 100 adequate) PIC Time
120 Night (60 Out-60 Back) PIC Night
Day check : 1 hour (PIC)
Night check : 1 hour (PIC)
Instrument check : 1 hour (Dual)
Instrument Total time required : 5 hours in the Sim;Its Cheaper and IR cant be counted towards 15 hrs PIC w/o valid IR.

FOR ME-IR Day & Night Familiarization, and Day, Night & IR checks. (4 Hrs 30 Mins give or take 1 Hr)

[hitesh.ahire]

@ St_Elmo

Thanks for your post,

Much appreciated!!

I was always looking for this information.


@ Left Wing,

For any Airbus type rating, Multi Engine rating is primarily essential.