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How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?

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How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?

Old 22nd Jun 2014, 03:40
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Posts: 363
At no point did I say that these things were true with Indian pilots.
I was telling you the reputation that precedes them in most countries around the world and why it is difficult for them to find employment.
That (reputation) is an imaginary and clever concoction by people who are insecured by Indian competition (as billboard correctly pointed out).And it is people like you and LST that fan it inspite of contradictory trends (as pointed out by me)

I don't know how you could come to such a stupid conclusion when most Indians still get their licenses abroad and hardly have any presence in general aviation (because of other issues than reputation) Try to come up with facts instead of some stupid story like how I met a moron who flipped the TV channel on his fellow pilots crap.

Secondly no one will tell an Indian or a Chinese or a Japanese or a Phillipino or a Bangladeshi that he is an Asian you fool.They would know that anyways unless ofcourse they were you

And Thankyou for your mention about Work permits.

Last edited by Capt Apache; 22nd Jun 2014 at 03:53.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 06:06
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Apache,

The "concoction" you talk about isn't part of his imagination. I can tell you its true. There are companies where I fly now that will not hiring Indian nationals. For the reason stated earlier. Not fake licences but fake ratings and prof checks have been found in the past. While this isn't isolated to people of the sub continent, the percentage of people being found doing this was higher for people who held a particular passport.

At one point we were getting 10-20 guys a week knocking on the door of our office asking for jobs. Only the Indians offered bribes and to work for free.

What do you think of that Apache?
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 07:11
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Capt Apache,
I don't know whether you fly for a airline in India or still looking for a job. Outside of India, Indians are known to be Indians rather than Asians. Yes Geographically we r in Asia so is Pak,Afghan,Iran etc.. But Asians r normally meant for Chinese,Japanese,Koreans etc. So in-order to understand that you need to travel overseas and try to mingle with other races not just hanging with your own kind.. BTW I'am of Indian origin.
Secondly on the part of fake license yes India does have a bad reputation overseas. Its talked among pilot bodies. I'm not saying every Indian has a fake license. Well Indian pilots are good in terms of flying. You did post earlier that M.E airlines r hiring.. They hire guys with exp on Jets not 250hrs CPL. Many countries Licensing agencies have a problem to hire a 250hr Indian CPL holders. Even if the company wants to hire them.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 07:37
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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What do you think of that Apache?
I think that there are too many (very) experienced expats out there that are willing to prostitute their services for a low pay and a paper contract, who are willing to travel a thousand miles from home for a shitty job in an unsafe company- to be worried about some wannabe Indians who are desperate to get a break.
But somehow you have only heard about the Indians.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 08:27
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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What fairy world do you live in?!?!
My current part of the world is paying more than regional airlines in my home country. There's also nothing unsafe about it. Unless you consider landing on anything less than 2000m unsafe?

You're obviously trolling for responses now and just starting to look like a insolent child.
lilflyboy262...2 is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2014, 08:27
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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As a pilot, you should be enough open-minded to give anybody the benefit of the doubt.

And also to call a cat a cat.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 08:51
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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@ lilflyboy Who is talking about you.

I am in no position to know where it is you work.Why are you getting so defensive about my comment.
I am sure its safe where you work
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 08:51
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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At no point did I say that these things were true with Indian pilots.
I was telling you the reputation that precedes them in most countries around the world and why it is difficult for them to find employment.
You are unsure of the fact that there are genuine problems with Indian pilots yet you go on to say that they have a bad reputation. That is a convenient way to malign someone and escape responsibility. Tomorrow i can go on to say, "I am not saying that lilflyboy262...2 is bad but a lot of other people say that." That way i escape the obligations to provide facts and evidences and instead provide stories which may or may not be true.

Not fake licences but fake ratings and prof checks have been found in the past.
Ok so now that it has been pointed out that most Indians train for their CPLs abroad, it is being said that the problem is not with licenses but with ratings. Shifting goal posts?

BTW, that comment is more ridiculous because even the minority of Indians who get their CPLs in India get their ratings abroad because of lack of third party TRTOs. The shortage of TRTOs in India is even more acute than flight schools.

At one point we were getting 10-20 guys a week knocking on the door of our office asking for jobs. Only the Indians offered bribes and to work for free.
So when Europeans offer to pay to get jobs, some people get all euphemistic and call it pay-to-fly. When some idiots from India do the same it is called "bribe." How convenient

Eagle Jet International, Inc.

Eagle Jet International, Inc.

Excerpts from the above link are given below:

In order to optimize the experience received during our heavy jet programs, pilots are based in Europe or nearby countries and fly most of the time within the western European airspace.
Indians are known to be Indians rather than Asians.
I have done enough mingling to know that some people only refer to people with Mongoloid features as Asians. They choose to rely on looks rather than geography/science/logic to derive their jargon. Smacks of racism to me.

Indian Americans top rich lists in USA
Indian Americans top rich lists in USA - Firstpost

Indian Americans: The New Model Minority
Indian Americans: The New Model Minority - Forbes

Wherever you go in the world you will find that Indians have contributed richly to local societies. The first generation Indians in foreign lands may drive taxis and be coolies but their next generations do much better. Some people are averse to fair competition so they rely on cheap tricks like spreading rumors against their competitors. If such people have the balls, get the Indians to write exams, appear for interviews and sim checks and then -- may the best man win, whatever the race, nationality etc. etc. But NO, rumor mongering is the way to go for these "supremacists."

BTW I'am of Indian origin.
So is the current Miss America. Whats the point?
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 09:19
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Billboard.

I am not sure why you can't grasp your mind around what I am trying to say.

I do not believe the sterotypes that are being propagated throughout the aviation community.
I did however, just list those sterotypes as you and a few other Indian nationals seem to be lost as why they couldn't find work worldwide.

When you pull your head out far enough to realise this, then perhaps you might start feeling a little foolish for your rants about racism.

I was in no way being racist.

Stop being so quick to play the racist card. Nothing makes me sicker than someone doing that.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 11:30
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Billboard,

I'm pretty sure that Eagle jet is a registered business and pays its taxes. They offer a service and you pay them money for it. That is called a financial transaction.

When someone comes and knocks on your office door and tries to hand you big brown envelope full of cash to jump up the hiring list that is called a bribe.

I don't support pay to fly and you should know what is a bribe and what isn't.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 11:38
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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@lilflyboy
You seem to be hiding behind the 'Don't Shoot me I am the messenger' veil

It is only people like you and your pals that are aware of such 'Stereotypes'.I have only met and heard of hardworking and brave individuals who have worked their ass off trying to find a job against all odds.

Stop spreading bullshit.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 12:50
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Apache

There is only one person here talking bulls$%t here and I think its you.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 13:12
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Brave? Against all odds? You make it sound like they are under fire while looking for work.

It is indeed a "don't shoot the messenger" situation. I'm not hiding behind anything.

I'm not spreading anything. It's a well known stigma that Indian pilots face around the world.

I'm sorry if the reality hurts you and your feelings.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 14:06
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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I suggest Billboard and Apache actually go out and work as pilots for a while before coming on here and telling people what they should think.

It's easy to beat your chest about things you don't like from the comfort of your parents house. It must be tough being an out of work CPL holder in India!!

Keep those opinions (based on no actual real experience) coming.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 14:06
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Billboard and Apache

A little about my background first.

I was an Instructor for many more years than you have been in aviation. I was the International Student Manager and specialized predominantly in training Indian students.

My observations through years of experience.

Most of the student pilots sent to us on their parents money wasted most of their parents money.

Some, a small percentage were some of the best students I have ever come across. Diligent, hard working and focused. One thing was common with all of these students. Either they were paying their own way not relying on their parents or they realized that every second they spent overseas training was costing their parents enormous amounts of money.

On the most part though, the majority (all males) were lazy, spent their nights enjoying themselves their weekend drinking themselves to sleep not realizing that every night they partied was costing their parents a minimum of a months wages.. One night of fun, one month of hard work for their parents.

I got sick of this at one point and brought all of them together.. Explained to them that the money they were wasting was going to cost them in the long run. Their parents had a limited amount of funds and there guys were drinking a fair percentage of it. That meeting ended with tears in the eyes of a few of the slightly smarter ones. The end result was a lot of them never finished their courses, went home empty handed. Some came back years later but non the wiser.

As mentioned some of the Indian students I trained were the best I ever saw. Most of those are now in the airlines and deserve to be there, they worked exceptionally hard for where they are now.

I am now in charge of Hiring pilots for an expanding operator in Asia..

What I write below is not hear say it is fact.

I have had thousands of applicants over the past year from all over the world including India.

It was only the Indian pilots that offered me money if i gave them a job. They would come to my office, uninvited, demand to see me and then offer to give me money if i hired them. Now this didn't just happen once. It wasn't just a one off. It happened numerous times by numerous different individuals all with Indian passports.

This is the fastest way of getting black banned by me and our company.

Before you jump up and down like a child. I have hired Indian pilots, I have 2 new ones starting in the coming months. Both of these come highly recommended and have proved that they work and study hard.

The Asian country where I work looks down on Indian pilots because of the past experiences. Most companies will not hire, not interview and not even talk to Indian Pilots. The local DGCA has made it extremely difficult to hire those holding an Indian passport. Its not impossible but it is difficult.

What lilflyboy has said about Indian pilots in the most part is correct. Like it or not in the countries i have worked, Indians have a VERY bad reputation. Perceived or otherwise. This is not my view, it is the view of the entire industry where I work.

If your looking for work, send me your CV, have a go. Stand up and be counted but dont just hide behind PPRuNe and complain that your victimized or stereo typed. If i dont normally reply individually to the 1000s of applications I get, but I will happily look at your CV and if you meet our requirements I will offer you the same as I offer everyone else, "A Fair Chance".. If you dont meet our requirements or I don't like the way you've written your CV, I will also tell you why. (NOTE: Onetime offer only to Billboard and Apache).. Everyone else follow the normal channels.


My words of advice to any wannabe pilot, from any country holding any passport..

1. Do NOT ever offer to pay money to get a job outside your own country
2. Do NOT ever offer to work for free
3. Work and Study hard
4. Dont come to an interview not knowing anything about our aircraft
5. If you dont meet the above then DO NOT waste my or my colleagues time, your name will be added the long black banned list throughout this country.


Andy
Skydiveandy is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2014, 14:41
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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To Capt Apache and Billboard you both really are doing India more harm than good. India has its own special Flavors some good some bad like every country.
A quote from a retired IAF Gp Capt friend.
Roti Canai is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2014, 14:51
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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I think its one person using different user id's.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 15:15
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Well Capt Apache I cant speak for the other ones but I am nothing to do with that but as you are so fond of asking for proof all the time go ahead and prove I am all those other poster's.
I think someone else also told you once to go and turn on TV and do something more useful, I think Good advice.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 16:05
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Looks like I went from getting an offer (or bribe !! ) to have my CV fast-tracked,to getting hate mails- in record time.Keep em coming
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 16:44
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Roti,

Why don't we just let Apache keep going? He is certainly providing us with his informed and in depth views on aviation. Maybe he has a blog and we can have a read? Surely that would outline how he has accumulated so much knowledge over the years and how he has an understanding of the way Inidan pilots are treated around the world?

It would be a thriller! Much like a Tom Clancy novel I would say. He could amaze us with stories of his piloting skill. My eyes would be glued to the screen. When I had finished I would have to come on to PPRuNe straight away to speak to other people about this guy who has been able to remain virtually unknown in the aviation world up until now.

He must be a really smart.
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