Indian First Class Medicals for Expats
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Indian First Class Medicals for Expats
Please refrain from bashing or flaming as only objective thoughts on this subject are appreciated.
Currently, the majority of expats attending the newly established required medical examination in Bangalore have not passed. Unless there is immediate relief or reform or oversight the future may be grim.
Under the current program, pre-medicals are administered at certified local clinics throughout India by certified technicians with detailed reports prepared by certified technicians and a full debriefed by certified physicians. This detailed report is hand delivered by the pilot to their base physician for further review and approval prior to attending the physical examination. The detailed reports are hand delivered to the Air Force Facility by the pilot undergoing the medical evaluation by the Air Force Medical Examiner.
To date, the majority of these reports are being discounted or disregarded as being unprofessional and unacceptable, or not formatted correctly resulting in further retesting by the pilot at the local hospital in Bangalore… thus causing additional angst which is deplorable.
What is the purpose of the pre-medical examination if these results are dispelled or cast aside by the Air Force Medical Facility? There is nothing more demeaning, disrespectful , humiliating, or inhumane for a Senior Aircraft Commander to sit before a medical professional, who is an Officer and a Gentlemen in the Military Service of the Indian Government, treating us as liars despots, or criminals and refusing to accept certified reports from certified Indian physicians who administered these medical pre-tests, at certified Indian clinics.
Most of the airlines in India have large aircraft orders with deliveries scheduled for the near future. With that being said additional staffing will be required. Further if the airlines in India want to at least maintain their current levels let alone increase their staffing need to consider with immediate effect each airline must:
1. Establish oversight by their respective Medical Departments;
2. Reschedule the medical appointments with the Indian Air Force;
3. Engage the services of a former Air Force Medical Examiner who was directly involved with and has first-hand knowledge in the administering the Indian First Class Medical Exam. A list of requirements along with acceptable parameters must be provided to each pilot before submitting for a pre-medical examination under the supervision of the engaged former Air Force Medical Examiner;
4. Engage the services of only one clinic to administer all pre-medical examinations under the supervision of the engaged former Air Force Medical Examiner;
5. The nominated former Air Force Medical Examiner who was directly involved with administering medical exams for the Air Force needs to be part debrief process of the tests administered.
What's going to be next? Personally, I'm tired of jumping though any more hoops. As for myself, my intentions are to:
1. Maintain my Country’s First Class Medical Certificate as required by my country and contract of employment;
2. Submit same to my company as required per my employment contract;
3. Not set myself up for potential failure nor be subjected to the abuse by the Air Force Medical Examiners in Bangalore or Delhi;
4. At this time, not to submit to a medical examination until such time that my company establishes a plan as outlined above;
5. If there is no resolve, I'll be off to my next adventure in aviation when the deadline for completion of the Indian First Class Medical comes to pass.
Any carriers have a plan for salary continuation, and or medical benefits to resolve any deficiencies in place to assist crewmembers if the medical is not successful?
Again, please refrain from bashing or flaming as only objective thoughts on this subject are appreciated.
Good luck to all.
Note to Mods... this thread was deleted from Terms and Endearment. Please advise if this post does not meet the standards of PPrune. Thank you.
Currently, the majority of expats attending the newly established required medical examination in Bangalore have not passed. Unless there is immediate relief or reform or oversight the future may be grim.
Under the current program, pre-medicals are administered at certified local clinics throughout India by certified technicians with detailed reports prepared by certified technicians and a full debriefed by certified physicians. This detailed report is hand delivered by the pilot to their base physician for further review and approval prior to attending the physical examination. The detailed reports are hand delivered to the Air Force Facility by the pilot undergoing the medical evaluation by the Air Force Medical Examiner.
To date, the majority of these reports are being discounted or disregarded as being unprofessional and unacceptable, or not formatted correctly resulting in further retesting by the pilot at the local hospital in Bangalore… thus causing additional angst which is deplorable.
What is the purpose of the pre-medical examination if these results are dispelled or cast aside by the Air Force Medical Facility? There is nothing more demeaning, disrespectful , humiliating, or inhumane for a Senior Aircraft Commander to sit before a medical professional, who is an Officer and a Gentlemen in the Military Service of the Indian Government, treating us as liars despots, or criminals and refusing to accept certified reports from certified Indian physicians who administered these medical pre-tests, at certified Indian clinics.
Most of the airlines in India have large aircraft orders with deliveries scheduled for the near future. With that being said additional staffing will be required. Further if the airlines in India want to at least maintain their current levels let alone increase their staffing need to consider with immediate effect each airline must:
1. Establish oversight by their respective Medical Departments;
2. Reschedule the medical appointments with the Indian Air Force;
3. Engage the services of a former Air Force Medical Examiner who was directly involved with and has first-hand knowledge in the administering the Indian First Class Medical Exam. A list of requirements along with acceptable parameters must be provided to each pilot before submitting for a pre-medical examination under the supervision of the engaged former Air Force Medical Examiner;
4. Engage the services of only one clinic to administer all pre-medical examinations under the supervision of the engaged former Air Force Medical Examiner;
5. The nominated former Air Force Medical Examiner who was directly involved with administering medical exams for the Air Force needs to be part debrief process of the tests administered.
What's going to be next? Personally, I'm tired of jumping though any more hoops. As for myself, my intentions are to:
1. Maintain my Country’s First Class Medical Certificate as required by my country and contract of employment;
2. Submit same to my company as required per my employment contract;
3. Not set myself up for potential failure nor be subjected to the abuse by the Air Force Medical Examiners in Bangalore or Delhi;
4. At this time, not to submit to a medical examination until such time that my company establishes a plan as outlined above;
5. If there is no resolve, I'll be off to my next adventure in aviation when the deadline for completion of the Indian First Class Medical comes to pass.
Any carriers have a plan for salary continuation, and or medical benefits to resolve any deficiencies in place to assist crewmembers if the medical is not successful?
Again, please refrain from bashing or flaming as only objective thoughts on this subject are appreciated.
Good luck to all.
Note to Mods... this thread was deleted from Terms and Endearment. Please advise if this post does not meet the standards of PPrune. Thank you.
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You should have posted this here http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...arrived-2.html
So the deadline is March 24, thats only a couple more weeks you can fly then. What does your company think of your plan... I heard that airlines are writing letters to the DGCA to stop this madness and stupidity, but I think it will fall on deaf ears.
So the deadline is March 24, thats only a couple more weeks you can fly then. What does your company think of your plan... I heard that airlines are writing letters to the DGCA to stop this madness and stupidity, but I think it will fall on deaf ears.
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Refuse to sit this medical! Refuse en mass and you as a pilot group down there, may have a chance. If you play this one right, you will have them running around like headless chickens.
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Refuse to sit this medical! Refuse en mass and you as a pilot group down there, may have a chance. If you play this one right, you will have them running around like headless chickens.
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Indian medicals....
I know it's no solace but just to let you know, the Air Force medical is equally terrifying for the local as it is for the expat. I have been doing it for the past 15 years now and being TMU( temporarily medically unfit) is always expected.
I've been lucky , TMU once so far for eosonophilia(3 weeks) , but friends have been down for 3 months or more and varied reasons like low hoemoglobin ( 12.9 ) , platelet count etc.etc.
The recent rule change for ATPL holders under 40 to carry out medicals once a year as against bi-annually is a welcome change. I wish they could "ease" the standards a bit , but it's going to take a while for that to happen, if at all. In the meantime, FIP insurance for TMU/PMU is the way to go in addition to the company coverage....
..
sunny 441 said
I wouldnt try that little trick of yours , especially with the forces , the zeal with which some of the force people take their job could land you behind bars , you have been warned. 
I've been lucky , TMU once so far for eosonophilia(3 weeks) , but friends have been down for 3 months or more and varied reasons like low hoemoglobin ( 12.9 ) , platelet count etc.etc.
The recent rule change for ATPL holders under 40 to carry out medicals once a year as against bi-annually is a welcome change. I wish they could "ease" the standards a bit , but it's going to take a while for that to happen, if at all. In the meantime, FIP insurance for TMU/PMU is the way to go in addition to the company coverage....
..sunny 441 said
Or you could do it the Indian way - and slip a few greenbacks under the table and be done with it.
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Refuse to sit this medical! Refuse en mass and you as a pilot group down there, may have a chance. If you play this one right, you will have them running around like headless chickens.
In fact, there are a lot of folks at DGCA (and others) that want the expats out - regardless of consequences. The net result of "playing this one right" might be an increase in airfares for a couple of days - as a couple of hundred jobless expats hop the next flight home. Be careful ...
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Rotorhead1026
Yes but they are going to loose their jobs in any event. Sit the medical and fail, he/she will have a "medical history", that will be passed onto the authority either by the licence holder or the DGCA, or both. Then another can of worms will be opened, as they may not have a licence or a job at the end of it!
Yes but they are going to loose their jobs in any event. Sit the medical and fail, he/she will have a "medical history", that will be passed onto the authority either by the licence holder or the DGCA, or both. Then another can of worms will be opened, as they may not have a licence or a job at the end of it!
So feeling F**ked in India
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"Clean up the Indian Aviation scene. If u feel f**ked just pack and go."
I did!! You know why? I didn't feel India was
I already knew it was !! 
Just came across this! Seems that some air force pilots from other countries should be doing the DGCA medicals also to avoid this tragedy. Would never have happened if he had.
I did!! You know why? I didn't feel India was
I already knew it was !! Just came across this! Seems that some air force pilots from other countries should be doing the DGCA medicals also to avoid this tragedy. Would never have happened if he had.
Last edited by weido_salt; 9th Mar 2011 at 20:25.
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... wil have a medical history", that will be passed onto the authority either by the licence holder or the DGCA, or both
Being fired for refusing to take a legally required (overkill or not) medical exam would be the more career limiting scenario.
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"If perchance something more serious is found - well, it's best to take care of your health first."
We are all, each and everyone of us on "death row". Most of us will probably die of a heart attack or cancer, whether the DGCA/India Military like it or not. Shall we all tear our medical certificates up?? If health is such a huge issue for you, why don't you book yourself in for an exploratory operation, just to see if things are OK within your body?
Each and every expat, will hold a class one medical certificate, issued to prove he/she is fit to operate. Now the DGCA have decided all expat medicals are not worth the paper they are written on. What utter nonsense. I can understand and agree, pilots operating public transport single pilot operations need to be "looked at more closely" Multi crew operations there are at least 2 crew members on board who should be able to get that aircraft down safely, should the other crew member be incapacitated. Maybe in India a large percentage of F/O's are not capable of getting the aircraft down safely should the PIC be incapacitated. I believe this to be a fact. Not their fault as they are not allowed to practice getting the thing down. They even have Captains flying who cant even land the damned aircraft without bending it.
They have taken their eye off the ball. Too busy checking up on the expats and harassing them, now they cant even be sure if any of the local pilots haven't cheated when they were issued their licences! God I would wet my pants laughing if say 30% had cheated. What with that and kicking most of the expats out things would really grind to a Holt. The fact the DGCA have ordered 4000 licences to be checked means they haven't a clue who's cheated and who hasn't.
We are all, each and everyone of us on "death row". Most of us will probably die of a heart attack or cancer, whether the DGCA/India Military like it or not. Shall we all tear our medical certificates up?? If health is such a huge issue for you, why don't you book yourself in for an exploratory operation, just to see if things are OK within your body?
Each and every expat, will hold a class one medical certificate, issued to prove he/she is fit to operate. Now the DGCA have decided all expat medicals are not worth the paper they are written on. What utter nonsense. I can understand and agree, pilots operating public transport single pilot operations need to be "looked at more closely" Multi crew operations there are at least 2 crew members on board who should be able to get that aircraft down safely, should the other crew member be incapacitated. Maybe in India a large percentage of F/O's are not capable of getting the aircraft down safely should the PIC be incapacitated. I believe this to be a fact. Not their fault as they are not allowed to practice getting the thing down. They even have Captains flying who cant even land the damned aircraft without bending it.
They have taken their eye off the ball. Too busy checking up on the expats and harassing them, now they cant even be sure if any of the local pilots haven't cheated when they were issued their licences! God I would wet my pants laughing if say 30% had cheated. What with that and kicking most of the expats out things would really grind to a Holt. The fact the DGCA have ordered 4000 licences to be checked means they haven't a clue who's cheated and who hasn't.
Last edited by weido_salt; 10th Mar 2011 at 03:36.
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Captain Gluscia's Fatal Flight Must be Prevented
Serbian Pilot, Late Captain z. Glucia flew 168 Air India passengers to their doom. He was obviously medically unfit.
A good periodic Medical check up is the corner stone of Aviation Safety.
Unfit foreign Pilots can't crowd the Indian aviation scene.
A good periodic Medical check up is the corner stone of Aviation Safety.
Unfit foreign Pilots can't crowd the Indian aviation scene.
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Captain Gluscia's Fatal Flight Must be Prevented
Would have been prevented if all the expat first officers weren't run out of India.
Instead, an Indian First officer with more than four thousand hours, doesn't have enough experience to take controls from an incompacitated commander and prevent the death and destruction of that fatal flight.
But your fresh pimply faced two hundred fifty hour first offficers will..hmmm
We need to place blame where it is due. If the commander is sick I would expect the first officer to at least be able to get the plane safely on the ground.
I am glad I dont fly in India.
Would have been prevented if all the expat first officers weren't run out of India.
Instead, an Indian First officer with more than four thousand hours, doesn't have enough experience to take controls from an incompacitated commander and prevent the death and destruction of that fatal flight.
But your fresh pimply faced two hundred fifty hour first offficers will..hmmm
We need to place blame where it is due. If the commander is sick I would expect the first officer to at least be able to get the plane safely on the ground.
I am glad I dont fly in India.
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If the JAA and FAA etc standards are so bad and are the root cause of accidents how come the papers are not filled with air crashes daily..... 
Now back to regular programming...
Now back to regular programming...
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Isbrokenagian, your own DGCA, SWIP and IPU need to clean their own houses before attacking others with such tripe.
I would like western countries to obtain advance notices of VT airmen operating VT registered aircraft within countries outside the land of VT countries to ensure those airmen from the land of VT have valid legitimate and airmen and medical certificates. Another form of APIS if you will. More SAFA inspections at airports outside of VT land is a must too!
Where are the guys from ICAO when you really need them!?!
What do think about that idea Isbrokenagain? I mean expats have to have their records validated before a FATA is issued. It is apparent that the Indian DGCA does not have a handle on how many illegals of in their own country are operating VT aircraft. Now that it in itself is a disgrace!!! Would you also not agree???? Isbrokenagain???
I would like western countries to obtain advance notices of VT airmen operating VT registered aircraft within countries outside the land of VT countries to ensure those airmen from the land of VT have valid legitimate and airmen and medical certificates. Another form of APIS if you will. More SAFA inspections at airports outside of VT land is a must too!
Where are the guys from ICAO when you really need them!?!
What do think about that idea Isbrokenagain? I mean expats have to have their records validated before a FATA is issued. It is apparent that the Indian DGCA does not have a handle on how many illegals of in their own country are operating VT aircraft. Now that it in itself is a disgrace!!! Would you also not agree???? Isbrokenagain???
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ICAO?
Excellent question. They will be doing nothing of course. Too busy protecting their own jobs and as to even think about levelling up the playing field.
When the expat FATA "filth" is cleaned from the face of the subcontinent, what are they going to do about the crews of say BA, LH, KLM, AF etc., etc. who will fly into Indian airspace without DGCA medicals? Without military medicals??!! OMG it doesn't bare thinking about. We are all doomed!!
Excellent question. They will be doing nothing of course. Too busy protecting their own jobs and a
s to even think about levelling up the playing field.When the expat FATA "filth" is cleaned from the face of the subcontinent, what are they going to do about the crews of say BA, LH, KLM, AF etc., etc. who will fly into Indian airspace without DGCA medicals? Without military medicals??!! OMG it doesn't bare thinking about. We are all doomed!!
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@ Captjns can you educate me, I really have no clue as to what is "SWIP and IPU"
Also I dont get your rant, I am not supporting the sillyness of the Medical for foreigners, hey I think the whole aviation medical system needs a huge overhaul for all the local pilots sake!
You do need to really learn about aviation some more, you seem to think the ICAO is some super aviation police force.... let me educate you with the excerpt from the Chicago convention....
The Chicago Convention set down the purpose of ICAO:
"WHEREAS the future development of international civil aviation can greatly help to create and preserve friendship and understanding among the nations and peoples of the world, yet its abuse can become a threat to the general security; and WHEREAS it is desirable to avoid friction and to promote that co-operation between nations and peoples upon which the peace of the world depends; THEREFORE, the undersigned governments having agreed on certain principles and arrangements in order that international civil aviation may be developed in a safe and orderly manner and that international air transport services may be established on the basis of equality of opportunity and operated soundly and economically;”
ie they arent going to come in and slap wrists and put the Indian DGCA in order.
Also I dont get your rant, I am not supporting the sillyness of the Medical for foreigners, hey I think the whole aviation medical system needs a huge overhaul for all the local pilots sake!
You do need to really learn about aviation some more, you seem to think the ICAO is some super aviation police force.... let me educate you with the excerpt from the Chicago convention....
The Chicago Convention set down the purpose of ICAO:
"WHEREAS the future development of international civil aviation can greatly help to create and preserve friendship and understanding among the nations and peoples of the world, yet its abuse can become a threat to the general security; and WHEREAS it is desirable to avoid friction and to promote that co-operation between nations and peoples upon which the peace of the world depends; THEREFORE, the undersigned governments having agreed on certain principles and arrangements in order that international civil aviation may be developed in a safe and orderly manner and that international air transport services may be established on the basis of equality of opportunity and operated soundly and economically;”
ie they arent going to come in and slap wrists and put the Indian DGCA in order.
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so what are the parameters for testing?
DGCA Testing – what are the parameters? 
(pass fail - too low vs too high)
Stress Test:
Bruce Protocal Maximal – Treadmill Test
Bruce protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a maximal test - which means that the individual must continue until they are fatigued
Needless to say in a clinical setting, other parameters (such as blood pressure and ECG readings etc.) are used to determine the end of the test.
Biomechanical Tests
(i) Hb TLC DLC
(ii) Blood Urea
(iii) Serum Creatinine
(iv) Lipid Profile
(v) Blood Sugar Fasting & Post Prandial
(vi) Serum Uric Acid
(vii) Serum Bilirubin
(viii) SGOT/ SGPT
here are some parameters (not DCGA)
Blood Test Optimal Reference Ranges
Chem Panel Optimal Range
Glucose 80 - 100
Carbon Dioxide 26 - 31
Sodium 135 - 142
Potassium 4.0 - 4.5
Chloride 100 - 106
Phosphate 3.4 - 4.0
Calcium 9.4 - 10.0
Magnesium > 2.0
Serum iron 80 - 100
BUN 10 - 18
Creatinine .8/.9 - 1.1
Uric Acid 3.0 - 5.5 female
3.0 - 5.9 males
Cholesterol 150 - 220
HDL > 55
LDL < 120
Triglycerides 70 - 110
Total Protein 6.9 - 7.4
Albumin 4.0 - 5.0
Globulin 2.4 - 2.9
Total Bilirubin .1 - 1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase 70 - 100
AST (SGOT) 10 - 30
ALT (SGPT) 10 - 30
LDH 140 - 200
GGTP 10 - 30
WBC 6.0 - 7.5 (5.0 - 8.0)
RBC 4.0 - 4.9
(3.9 - 4.5 females, 4.2 - 4.9 males)
HGB 13.8 - 14.9
(13.5 - 14.5 females, 14.0 - 5.0 males)
HCT 37 - 45
(37 - 44 females, 40 - 48 males)
MCV 82.0 - 89.9
MCH 27.0 - 31.9
RDW <= 13.0
Platelets 150,000 - 450,000
Basophils 0 - 1%
Lymphocytes 24 - 44
Neutrophils 40 - 60
(pass fail - too low vs too high)Stress Test:
Bruce Protocal Maximal – Treadmill Test
Bruce protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a maximal test - which means that the individual must continue until they are fatigued
Needless to say in a clinical setting, other parameters (such as blood pressure and ECG readings etc.) are used to determine the end of the test.Biomechanical Tests
(i) Hb TLC DLC
(ii) Blood Urea
(iii) Serum Creatinine
(iv) Lipid Profile
(v) Blood Sugar Fasting & Post Prandial
(vi) Serum Uric Acid
(vii) Serum Bilirubin
(viii) SGOT/ SGPT
here are some parameters (not DCGA)
Blood Test Optimal Reference Ranges
Chem Panel Optimal Range
Glucose 80 - 100
Carbon Dioxide 26 - 31
Sodium 135 - 142
Potassium 4.0 - 4.5
Chloride 100 - 106
Phosphate 3.4 - 4.0
Calcium 9.4 - 10.0
Magnesium > 2.0
Serum iron 80 - 100
BUN 10 - 18
Creatinine .8/.9 - 1.1
Uric Acid 3.0 - 5.5 female
3.0 - 5.9 males
Cholesterol 150 - 220
HDL > 55
LDL < 120
Triglycerides 70 - 110
Total Protein 6.9 - 7.4
Albumin 4.0 - 5.0
Globulin 2.4 - 2.9
Total Bilirubin .1 - 1.2
Alkaline Phosphatase 70 - 100
AST (SGOT) 10 - 30
ALT (SGPT) 10 - 30
LDH 140 - 200
GGTP 10 - 30
WBC 6.0 - 7.5 (5.0 - 8.0)
RBC 4.0 - 4.9
(3.9 - 4.5 females, 4.2 - 4.9 males)
HGB 13.8 - 14.9
(13.5 - 14.5 females, 14.0 - 5.0 males)
HCT 37 - 45
(37 - 44 females, 40 - 48 males)
MCV 82.0 - 89.9
MCH 27.0 - 31.9
RDW <= 13.0
Platelets 150,000 - 450,000
Basophils 0 - 1%
Lymphocytes 24 - 44
Neutrophils 40 - 60
Last edited by Rosiemoto; 11th Mar 2011 at 04:11. Reason: typo