Susi Air Work Permits
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WSSS: Thanks for a constructive and mature reply. I have no doubt they are being viewed in such a way. It is unfortunate and partially due to the fact that this arrogant attitude is coming from the highest levels. I really hope they will see this before it is too late because it does get funneled down through the pilot body. Well pointed out.
PK-VVX: First off, therealmccoy is a reference to the truth not my name
. So before you begin attacking me as if I am someone sharing that name think again. I will say this though. The person you are attacking is one of the only people trying to get things above board and legitimate. So to make a personal attack like that is a diservice to what you are trying to accomplish with this post.
I do not blame the government for Susi Air's problems. I blame it for the state of aviation in Indonesia. The best cheater usually does win. I can quote references to many operators if you would like.
Yes, I do dare say there are not enough Indonesian pilots to fill all the Caravan's in Indonesia. If there were enough pilots, do you think every major carrier would be allowed to hire expats? The moment locals get licensed they are lured to Air Asia, Lion etc. Hard to compete with a big shiny jet
. There are a few exceptions that are possible waiting to go the airlines of enjoy flying small aircraft currently working at Susi Air doing a great job. 
So let's not try to walk down the road of stealing jobs because that is far from the truth.
Pangandaran flight school: From what I understand they desperately want to get that running. Financially and morally it makes sense. Unfortunately the Diamond aircraft haven't worked out. Once it does get up and running it will greatly benefit Indonesian Aviation. The quality of training I am sure will surpass that currently available.
Again, the swearing on the radio has been addressed, I think it is terrible so no need to bring that up again to continue to drag this whole issue through the mud.
Yes, there are Susi pilots who need to pull their necks in and start acting more maturely. No question. Let's not generalize and do a disservice to the group of them.
I think you will find I actually agree with what you are saying about the work permits etc.
What I take issue with is the personal attacks and generalizing. I assure you, generalizing does not work in your favor when speaking about Indonesian aviation even though the majority are professional, mature and polite individuals as mentioned. Let's not let the actions of a few characterize all of us.
PK-VVX: First off, therealmccoy is a reference to the truth not my name
. So before you begin attacking me as if I am someone sharing that name think again. I will say this though. The person you are attacking is one of the only people trying to get things above board and legitimate. So to make a personal attack like that is a diservice to what you are trying to accomplish with this post.I do not blame the government for Susi Air's problems. I blame it for the state of aviation in Indonesia. The best cheater usually does win. I can quote references to many operators if you would like.
Yes, I do dare say there are not enough Indonesian pilots to fill all the Caravan's in Indonesia. If there were enough pilots, do you think every major carrier would be allowed to hire expats? The moment locals get licensed they are lured to Air Asia, Lion etc. Hard to compete with a big shiny jet
. There are a few exceptions that are possible waiting to go the airlines of enjoy flying small aircraft currently working at Susi Air doing a great job. So let's not try to walk down the road of stealing jobs because that is far from the truth.
Pangandaran flight school: From what I understand they desperately want to get that running. Financially and morally it makes sense. Unfortunately the Diamond aircraft haven't worked out. Once it does get up and running it will greatly benefit Indonesian Aviation. The quality of training I am sure will surpass that currently available.
Again, the swearing on the radio has been addressed, I think it is terrible so no need to bring that up again to continue to drag this whole issue through the mud.
Yes, there are Susi pilots who need to pull their necks in and start acting more maturely. No question. Let's not generalize and do a disservice to the group of them.
I think you will find I actually agree with what you are saying about the work permits etc.
What I take issue with is the personal attacks and generalizing. I assure you, generalizing does not work in your favor when speaking about Indonesian aviation even though the majority are professional, mature and polite individuals as mentioned. Let's not let the actions of a few characterize all of us.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Now please remain seated...
As I received an E-mail from one of SA pilot yesterday asking me if I was cintamu I repeat again NO!
It is not difficult to look at Edsbar past threads to see where you worked before.
Some people know I came from the same company when I joined.
I resigned since then, please Edsbar don't start to put the french in this thread, we only read, not comment. For us SA is over but I have to admit we appreciate reading it from times to times.
People hated me for what I did, up to them.
I'm related to you as we went through the same **** before. Thus I can't comment on what you are saying.
Cintamu could be someone I used to work with before and you too obviously.
People can take any identity in this thread.
I appreciate you as a friend as well as the other pilot who wrote me, please leave it like that.
Save yourself my friend.
Cheers
As I received an E-mail from one of SA pilot yesterday asking me if I was cintamu I repeat again NO!
It is not difficult to look at Edsbar past threads to see where you worked before.
Some people know I came from the same company when I joined.
I resigned since then, please Edsbar don't start to put the french in this thread, we only read, not comment. For us SA is over but I have to admit we appreciate reading it from times to times.
People hated me for what I did, up to them.
I'm related to you as we went through the same **** before. Thus I can't comment on what you are saying.
Cintamu could be someone I used to work with before and you too obviously.
People can take any identity in this thread.
I appreciate you as a friend as well as the other pilot who wrote me, please leave it like that.
Save yourself my friend.
Cheers
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Point of view
I have followed this forum for a while and must say that you guys did manage to amuse me a lot. Some very nice inputs, some ridiculous, some frustrated, some truths, some lies and a lot of quotations. When Theralmccoy mixed in I decided to also contribute a few words. An honour to have an SA staff member as high ranked as you joining the tread, suppose you’re here to do damage control? (Rumour goes that someone kicked ibu S’s ass and that she’s pretty upset so you might have joined just to keep an eye on PPRUNE?) Second thing appropriate to do in this tread is to contribute a quotation: Deuteronomy 5:6-20: "Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbor." This commandment forbids misrepresenting the truth in relations with others. This also forbids lying. Kapt Z, please don’t lecture about ethics whilst you’re lying. 
Shouldn’t have posted your DOB mate, together with Facebook (for someone that has a clue about your identity) it’s pretty easy to figure out. And why lie or trying to hide the truth? Your opinion as a SA employee is as welcome as any else.
I will of course also contribute to this tread in a positive way with some information. Maybe a little beyond the work permit issue but usable information for a guy that wants to make his mind up whether or not to join SA. I used to work for SA from June 2009 till two weeks ago as a free lance Porter pilot /instructor in Papua. At the moment I’m doing my summer job in Europe as a fire fighting pilot on the AT802. After some disagreements with the SA CEO however I feel I’m not welcome anymore at SA. No problem, no frustrations, a lot of work for a qualified pilot around, so safe me the comments about another frustrated pilot on the forum.
Let me just state a few facts.
Indonesia is a third world country although they might not be willing to admit. Bribing, paying for services and corruption are culture. SA is just one more company on the list. There wouldn’t be an AOC, nor aircraft nor foreign pilots or even SA, if it wasn’t for blending in the system. In business you cannot afford being more “Roman Catholic than the Pope”.
SA pilots work illegal. I have been working on a business visa which is illegal. The last time I entered I had a big problem explaining the immigration guy the Susi Air ID that I kept with my passport. (Stupid me, I know) I managed to convince him that I sell “knowledge and skills” as a flight instructor and that this is “business”.
I don’t have any proof of SA paying bribes, I do know however from the mouth of the “CEO aide-de-camp” that SA waits for the proper officer to be on duty to fly the new aircraft from Singapore to Jakarta to avoid to be taxed. I got this answer when asking him why there are several aircraft sitting on the ramp in Singapore, waiting to be flown to Indonesia.
Pilots licensing has been a big issue in the past and for the moment this seems solved with temporary certificates which are renewed every month. The licenses now start to arrive, however every pilot, before receiving the license which is legally his, is forced to sign a contract in which he/she states not to work for any other Indonesian company until two years after leaving SA. This might be the result of the former head of training walking out and now working for another company. He obviously preferred to earn less in change for a better job. (“Chapeau DA”)
SA doesn’t provide a medical insurance, instead promises to indemnify all medical costs. That’s nice for a handful of malaria pills but for a pilot ending up in a wheelchair after a crash it’s not a very comforting idea to be dependant on SA for the rest of his life. Because who will pay him after bankruptcy? Ibu S herself?
Maintenance is a disaster! As a result of the very fast growth of the company, management is unable to keep in pace increasing the maintenance department. In spite of some very qualified maintenance guys trying all they can; aircraft come back on line after inspections and after having been squawked without the problems solved. SA flies due to the very young fleet, any older fleet, with this kind of maintenance would be grounded. It’s impossible to recruit experienced expat engineers with the conditions SA is offering. Local Indonesian engineers and mechanics walk out because of the way they are treated and paid.
Because of the fast growth, SA is in desperate need for pilots and is hiring a lot. According to what the selection officer told me, standards change every day. When I asked him how many pilots he has to hire for this month, or this year, he just shrugged and told me he doesn’t know, as no-one can or wants to tell him. Because of the growth, experienced Papua Caravan captains are upgraded to the Porter as the market of mountain skilled and experienced Porter drivers is a small one. The most important implication here, is the fact that because of this, very inexperienced pilots are forced to fly into strips they are not ready for. In Papua that’s a potential killer.
Insufficient maintenance and inexperienced pilots make a dangerous cocktail; the question at this point is not if there is an accident to happen but when the accident will happen. You are right Therealmccoy: SA still has one of the best safety records in Indonesia but this is about to change, matter of time.
SA is investing big time the last few years with a loan of 80 million US$. No secret as this is the first ibu S will tell you after you telling her your name during introduction. Obviously the banks have faith. With this money they bought 30 new G1000 Caravans, (10 were delivered in 2009, 10 for this year and 10 for next year, totalling 40 by the end of 2011) two Augusta helicopters, two Piaggio’s P180 Avanti (Two till now, with five in the business plan they used to convince the banks) and 7 Pilatus Porters (4 in Papua at the moment, 1 sitting in Singapore and 2 more to arrive this year) SA’s problem at the moment is overconfidence. They seem to think that managing a 50+ aircraft fleet is the same as managing a single Caravan flying shrimp from Pangandaran to Jakarta.
As the growth is way to fast to handle for SA management, the company now is an upside down pyramid in very loose equilibrium. As a standard they’re running behind the facts, “bailing the boat without first sticking the plug in the bottom”. As the CEO aide-de-camp told me in January this year, local Jakarta staff is running away faster than they are able to hire new, resulting in a very inexperienced staff always in the orientating phase instead of working. My guess is that this cannot be the result of paying and treating well your employees.
A pilot invited for an interview in Jakarta is to pay for his own ticket. The selection officer wrote me this week that he hired 100 pilots during the last years out of 250 interviews. Statistically this means a 40% chance you will be hired.
If some SA pilot has insulted ATC, you're right, unforgivable but at the other hand, as a reaction on ATC insistently trying to kill you and you, as a pilot, only saving your life by ignoring ATC, it is a reaction I can understand! I refuse to discuss Indonesian pilots in general as I've met a lot of professionals amongst them. I can imagine though criticism expressed towards them; I suggest as an example you just have a look here ASN Aircraft accident British Aerospace BAe-146-300 PK-BRD Wamena (WMX) I repeat what's said before; for both ATC officers and pilots we cannot judge the group based on the behaviour of individuals. And for the same reason no-one should judge the SA pilots flying in Indonesia.
If you’re willing to fly for the conditions SA offers; go for it. You’ll be one of a group of very nice guys, looking for hours or looking to make at least a few dollars in a time we’re all living a global crisis. Okay, maybe the hours as FO don’t count in the country you come from but you’re flying a lot, building experience and you’ll be upgraded fast. If you want to do bush flying, go for it; Papua is the best environment in the world for bush and mountain flying. Africa and Alaska are jokes compared to Papua. The SA Porter drivers belong to the best bush pilots in the world, absolute professionals. As far as the tax goes, a concern of one of you; in most of the civilized countries the general rule is that if you spend more than 182 days a year outside your country, you will not be taxed over the money you made abroad.
Just make sure you have a few bucks saved for your ticket home when SA goes broke.
Shouldn’t have posted your DOB mate, together with Facebook (for someone that has a clue about your identity) it’s pretty easy to figure out. And why lie or trying to hide the truth? Your opinion as a SA employee is as welcome as any else.I will of course also contribute to this tread in a positive way with some information. Maybe a little beyond the work permit issue but usable information for a guy that wants to make his mind up whether or not to join SA. I used to work for SA from June 2009 till two weeks ago as a free lance Porter pilot /instructor in Papua. At the moment I’m doing my summer job in Europe as a fire fighting pilot on the AT802. After some disagreements with the SA CEO however I feel I’m not welcome anymore at SA. No problem, no frustrations, a lot of work for a qualified pilot around, so safe me the comments about another frustrated pilot on the forum.
Let me just state a few facts.
Indonesia is a third world country although they might not be willing to admit. Bribing, paying for services and corruption are culture. SA is just one more company on the list. There wouldn’t be an AOC, nor aircraft nor foreign pilots or even SA, if it wasn’t for blending in the system. In business you cannot afford being more “Roman Catholic than the Pope”.
SA pilots work illegal. I have been working on a business visa which is illegal. The last time I entered I had a big problem explaining the immigration guy the Susi Air ID that I kept with my passport. (Stupid me, I know) I managed to convince him that I sell “knowledge and skills” as a flight instructor and that this is “business”.
I don’t have any proof of SA paying bribes, I do know however from the mouth of the “CEO aide-de-camp” that SA waits for the proper officer to be on duty to fly the new aircraft from Singapore to Jakarta to avoid to be taxed. I got this answer when asking him why there are several aircraft sitting on the ramp in Singapore, waiting to be flown to Indonesia.
Pilots licensing has been a big issue in the past and for the moment this seems solved with temporary certificates which are renewed every month. The licenses now start to arrive, however every pilot, before receiving the license which is legally his, is forced to sign a contract in which he/she states not to work for any other Indonesian company until two years after leaving SA. This might be the result of the former head of training walking out and now working for another company. He obviously preferred to earn less in change for a better job. (“Chapeau DA”)
SA doesn’t provide a medical insurance, instead promises to indemnify all medical costs. That’s nice for a handful of malaria pills but for a pilot ending up in a wheelchair after a crash it’s not a very comforting idea to be dependant on SA for the rest of his life. Because who will pay him after bankruptcy? Ibu S herself?
Maintenance is a disaster! As a result of the very fast growth of the company, management is unable to keep in pace increasing the maintenance department. In spite of some very qualified maintenance guys trying all they can; aircraft come back on line after inspections and after having been squawked without the problems solved. SA flies due to the very young fleet, any older fleet, with this kind of maintenance would be grounded. It’s impossible to recruit experienced expat engineers with the conditions SA is offering. Local Indonesian engineers and mechanics walk out because of the way they are treated and paid.
Because of the fast growth, SA is in desperate need for pilots and is hiring a lot. According to what the selection officer told me, standards change every day. When I asked him how many pilots he has to hire for this month, or this year, he just shrugged and told me he doesn’t know, as no-one can or wants to tell him. Because of the growth, experienced Papua Caravan captains are upgraded to the Porter as the market of mountain skilled and experienced Porter drivers is a small one. The most important implication here, is the fact that because of this, very inexperienced pilots are forced to fly into strips they are not ready for. In Papua that’s a potential killer.
Insufficient maintenance and inexperienced pilots make a dangerous cocktail; the question at this point is not if there is an accident to happen but when the accident will happen. You are right Therealmccoy: SA still has one of the best safety records in Indonesia but this is about to change, matter of time.
SA is investing big time the last few years with a loan of 80 million US$. No secret as this is the first ibu S will tell you after you telling her your name during introduction. Obviously the banks have faith. With this money they bought 30 new G1000 Caravans, (10 were delivered in 2009, 10 for this year and 10 for next year, totalling 40 by the end of 2011) two Augusta helicopters, two Piaggio’s P180 Avanti (Two till now, with five in the business plan they used to convince the banks) and 7 Pilatus Porters (4 in Papua at the moment, 1 sitting in Singapore and 2 more to arrive this year) SA’s problem at the moment is overconfidence. They seem to think that managing a 50+ aircraft fleet is the same as managing a single Caravan flying shrimp from Pangandaran to Jakarta.
As the growth is way to fast to handle for SA management, the company now is an upside down pyramid in very loose equilibrium. As a standard they’re running behind the facts, “bailing the boat without first sticking the plug in the bottom”. As the CEO aide-de-camp told me in January this year, local Jakarta staff is running away faster than they are able to hire new, resulting in a very inexperienced staff always in the orientating phase instead of working. My guess is that this cannot be the result of paying and treating well your employees.
A pilot invited for an interview in Jakarta is to pay for his own ticket. The selection officer wrote me this week that he hired 100 pilots during the last years out of 250 interviews. Statistically this means a 40% chance you will be hired.
If some SA pilot has insulted ATC, you're right, unforgivable but at the other hand, as a reaction on ATC insistently trying to kill you and you, as a pilot, only saving your life by ignoring ATC, it is a reaction I can understand! I refuse to discuss Indonesian pilots in general as I've met a lot of professionals amongst them. I can imagine though criticism expressed towards them; I suggest as an example you just have a look here ASN Aircraft accident British Aerospace BAe-146-300 PK-BRD Wamena (WMX) I repeat what's said before; for both ATC officers and pilots we cannot judge the group based on the behaviour of individuals. And for the same reason no-one should judge the SA pilots flying in Indonesia.
If you’re willing to fly for the conditions SA offers; go for it. You’ll be one of a group of very nice guys, looking for hours or looking to make at least a few dollars in a time we’re all living a global crisis. Okay, maybe the hours as FO don’t count in the country you come from but you’re flying a lot, building experience and you’ll be upgraded fast. If you want to do bush flying, go for it; Papua is the best environment in the world for bush and mountain flying. Africa and Alaska are jokes compared to Papua. The SA Porter drivers belong to the best bush pilots in the world, absolute professionals. As far as the tax goes, a concern of one of you; in most of the civilized countries the general rule is that if you spend more than 182 days a year outside your country, you will not be taxed over the money you made abroad.
Just make sure you have a few bucks saved for your ticket home when SA goes broke.
Last edited by Dromader; 4th Jun 2010 at 17:32.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Point of view 2
I think you all need to get your heads checked. If the "real" mccoy wanted to stay anonymous I think perhaps he would have been a touch more clever with his sign on name as the rest of the posters in this forum have been. If you really believe I was involved any way in senior mgmt after saying the things I have said about proper paperwork etc then again, I am sorry to disappoint.
Dromader's write up is actually incredibly accurate. (is this damage control?)
Let's hope things can be turned around before it's too late.
Dromader's write up is actually incredibly accurate. (is this damage control?)
Let's hope things can be turned around before it's too late.
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Many thanks to Dromader
What a great post.
You have balls for speaking up so openly.
Anyone who calls himself therealmccoy and pretends he is not who we all think he is should have their head checked.
What a great post.
You have balls for speaking up so openly.
Anyone who calls himself therealmccoy and pretends he is not who we all think he is should have their head checked.
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Age Requirement!!!!
Hi guys, I only wanted to know, why there is a age restriction at Susi Air? Is this because Susi Air had hired young pilots who had deserted the company without much contribution at all?
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Susi Air Interview
Gday, Just looking for anyone who has recently Had an interview with Susi Air in Jakarta.I am heading up that way shortly and Wanted to know what is covered
Join Date: Apr 2010
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You'll have a compass test and just a few rounds of questions covering basic flying and CPL subs.
I know around 4-5 guys from NZ who are with susi air now, got this info from them. PM me for more info on these guys. Maybe you can ask them directly.
Hope this helps.
KJ
I know around 4-5 guys from NZ who are with susi air now, got this info from them. PM me for more info on these guys. Maybe you can ask them directly.
Hope this helps.
KJ
My contacts tell me that a number of Susi Air pilots have been seen in the recruitment offices of other Indonesian airlines lately. Some are even prepared to pay their early contract termination penalty to jump ship to other airlines. Surely things can't be that bad at Susi Air? And I'm wondering how easy will it be for these pilots to get their release letters from Susi Air to join the other airlines in Indonesia? Has anyone been successful in doing this lately?
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WSSS:
Saying "Surely things can't be that bad at Susi Air?" is like saying "Surely that oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico can't be that bad?"
Many of us have been waiting to see what Susi (or CvS or McC) plan to do when one of the pilots they forced to sign the "non-compete" agreement decides to ignore it.
Try to enforce it? Ya right! Any pilot who has decided to make the move to another operator knows full well he or she can simply say to Susi Management "You go right ahead. Because the instant you do I'll go very publicly to the very top of the DGAC, and your insurance company, and the Immigration office, and your bank, and and and...
A company that is operating outside the rules and regs in so many areas, but thinks they can enforce such a ban, simply doesn't get it. The first time someone calls their bluff watch out. Ms. Pujiastuti has a LOT more to lose in such a poker game.
Sam
Saying "Surely things can't be that bad at Susi Air?" is like saying "Surely that oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico can't be that bad?"
Many of us have been waiting to see what Susi (or CvS or McC) plan to do when one of the pilots they forced to sign the "non-compete" agreement decides to ignore it.
Try to enforce it? Ya right! Any pilot who has decided to make the move to another operator knows full well he or she can simply say to Susi Management "You go right ahead. Because the instant you do I'll go very publicly to the very top of the DGAC, and your insurance company, and the Immigration office, and your bank, and and and...
A company that is operating outside the rules and regs in so many areas, but thinks they can enforce such a ban, simply doesn't get it. The first time someone calls their bluff watch out. Ms. Pujiastuti has a LOT more to lose in such a poker game.
Sam
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Hey Everyone, I've been reading a lot about Susi all over the internet, on this post and on several others. It seems that there's not contract or license for F/O positions at SA and the overall flying being second in command is not legal at all; besides that I couldn't find much information about the Captain promotion and what happens when you get it.
Do you get the promotion around 1000 TT like they say? Once you are captain, is the legal situation amended (getting Indo license, working VISA, etc.)?
Do you get the promotion around 1000 TT like they say? Once you are captain, is the legal situation amended (getting Indo license, working VISA, etc.)?
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Hello amigo, there's now lots of other options for foreign pilots to fly in Indonesia with other airlines. I know of 2 airlines in Indonesia who have just hired low time (250 hour TT) foreign pilots and they do everything legally as well, eg, with work permit (KITAS), Indonesian license endorsement, etc. Pay and conditions are liveable by Indonesian standards and they treat you well with 'per diem', transport etc when on duty. Endorsement training is also all paid for by the airline with a reasonable and fair bond.
I don't know much about Susi Air, but my advice is to avoid any airline that does not arrange a work permit for you to work here legally. The reasons for having a work permit has been covered to death in this thread. Do everything legally, amigo. That way, if you wish to move on to other airline jobs, in Indonesia especially, there wont be any problems.
I don't know much about Susi Air, but my advice is to avoid any airline that does not arrange a work permit for you to work here legally. The reasons for having a work permit has been covered to death in this thread. Do everything legally, amigo. That way, if you wish to move on to other airline jobs, in Indonesia especially, there wont be any problems.
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Flying with Susi Air without valid permits (KITAS) and licenses (ie: witheld by company) will result:
- Other Indonesian airlines reluctant to hire you even when they need expat pilots.
- Indonesian immigration causing you hassles for violating immigration laws during your time in Susi Air.
There are a few guys at the moment who is beginning to regret choosing Susi Air as "a way to get into Indonesia"...
PK-KAR
- Other Indonesian airlines reluctant to hire you even when they need expat pilots.
- Indonesian immigration causing you hassles for violating immigration laws during your time in Susi Air.
There are a few guys at the moment who is beginning to regret choosing Susi Air as "a way to get into Indonesia"...
PK-KAR
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Varig, take this opportunity to come down to indonesia and give a visit to a couple of operators... Some of them are literally skreeming
for pilots and opening doors to foreign pilots...
I personally know of 2 pilots who were supposed to join susi as Fake officers but ended up in the airlines to fly legally here...
for pilots and opening doors to foreign pilots...I personally know of 2 pilots who were supposed to join susi as Fake officers but ended up in the airlines to fly legally here...