ATR-72 Off runway Bombay
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think it happened because of lack of procedures and techniques.many atr pilots,regardless of 42 or 72,do not apply the right landing procedure to reduce pls at flight idle when reaching 20 feet,so they are maintaining pls at 20-15% being at 20 feet and the result is a long flare,which becomes a very long flare if tail wind exists.they were successfully landings with tail wind up to 20 kts on 1800m wet rwys.....
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the press release.. by kf
i dont work for kf but found this in the press release..
Press Statement
Mumbai, November 11, 2009
Following a spate of inaccurate and speculative reports that have appeared in the media and which continue to be flashed on various TV channels, we would like to clarify the facutal position and set the record straight with regard to the incident involving one of our ATR aircraft at Mumbai airport yesterday evening.
1. Considering the fact that the investigation is still on, we would normally not have issued such a detailed statement at this early stage but the wild speculation and rumour-mongering being reported on seriously by the media has constrained us to issue this clarification. It is therefore clarified that the iteration of this sequence of events and listing out of facts is in no way meant to be viewed as pointing blame in any direction or towards any agency or authority in any manner whatsoever and that we will respectfully abide by the final findings of the enquiry.
2. Some media reports have speculated that the pilot / cockpit crew ran away from the aircraft following the incident. We categorically deny this as false and mischievous. The cockpit crew and the cabin crew all remained present till all guests had safely exited from the aircraft and performed their duties as required of them in the given situation.
3. We learnt from media reports in sections of the press this morning that, barely minutes before our aircraft touched down, an aircraft of another airline had a landing that was not normal and took out two runway lights (according to media reports). The commander of our flight did not receive any notification advising or alerting our aircraft of any special conditions prevailing on the runway at that time and which may have potentially led to the eventful landing of another aircraft barely minutes before our aircraft touched down as otherwise the commander may have elected to request for a go around and/or diversion to an alternate airfield.
4. There have been some speculative and unconfirmed reports which suggest that ‘Kingfisher Airlines may have disregarded guidelines or flouted norms’ and so on. Kingfisher Airlines places guest safety and comfort above everything else. We categorically deny all such reports as untrue and aimed at maligning our reputation. For the record, we would like to highlight the following material points which will amply demonstrate that we are in full compliance with guidelines with regard to Tuesday closures at Mumbai Airport.
5. Beginning Friday November 6, 2009 on various occasions Kingfisher Airlines and other airline operators at Mumbai Airport brought up concerns regarding the Tuesday closures and on at least 5 different occasions since then, all airlines were in dialogue with MIAL to discuss and address various concerns.
6. On Monday November 9, 2009 following a verbal notification received by Kingfisher Airlines (at around 6.30pm) from the authorities that a “G’ class NOTAM had been issued, we proactively located the notification, studied the guidelines specified therein for operation of “C” class aircraft (Boeing and Airbus) and our Flight Operations department issued a circular to all pilots and concerned stakeholders specifying the precautions to be taken for Tuesday shortened runway operations at Mumbai Airport. With the issue of this circular within hours of being made aware of the “G’ class NOTAM, Kingfisher Airlines complied with the requirements specified with regard to operations of “C” class Airbus aircraft. Hence, there is no question of Kingfisher Airlines having violated any guidelines or flouted any norms.
7. On Tuesday November 10, 2009 , Kingfisher Airlines proactively delayed a number of flights (which had not yet departed from their city of origin) including those flights that were ready for departure from Mumbai Airport.
8. In light of the above, we would like to emphasize that:
a. Kingfisher Airlines took immediate and proactive steps to comply with the guidelines issued by the DGCA late in the evening of Monday November 9, 2009 with regard to flight operations of Airbus type of aircraft on the shortened runway on Tuesday.
b. The pilot of the aircraft involved in the unfortunate incident yesterday landed after receiving due clearance from the ATC at Mumbai Airport, given that the airport operator had chosen to keep the airport open.
9. Given that a full-fledged investigation is underway by our flight safety department and given that we are working and cooperating closely with the DGCA on their parallel investigation, we would urge editorial teams not to succumb to sensationalist information from phantom based sources and we will be happy to clarify any such malicious rumours and/or speculation that may surface.
Prakash Mirpuri
Vice President - Corporate Communications
The UB Group
Hoechst House, 5th Floor
Nariman Point
Mumbai 400 021
[email protected]
Press Statement
Mumbai, November 11, 2009
Following a spate of inaccurate and speculative reports that have appeared in the media and which continue to be flashed on various TV channels, we would like to clarify the facutal position and set the record straight with regard to the incident involving one of our ATR aircraft at Mumbai airport yesterday evening.
1. Considering the fact that the investigation is still on, we would normally not have issued such a detailed statement at this early stage but the wild speculation and rumour-mongering being reported on seriously by the media has constrained us to issue this clarification. It is therefore clarified that the iteration of this sequence of events and listing out of facts is in no way meant to be viewed as pointing blame in any direction or towards any agency or authority in any manner whatsoever and that we will respectfully abide by the final findings of the enquiry.
2. Some media reports have speculated that the pilot / cockpit crew ran away from the aircraft following the incident. We categorically deny this as false and mischievous. The cockpit crew and the cabin crew all remained present till all guests had safely exited from the aircraft and performed their duties as required of them in the given situation.
3. We learnt from media reports in sections of the press this morning that, barely minutes before our aircraft touched down, an aircraft of another airline had a landing that was not normal and took out two runway lights (according to media reports). The commander of our flight did not receive any notification advising or alerting our aircraft of any special conditions prevailing on the runway at that time and which may have potentially led to the eventful landing of another aircraft barely minutes before our aircraft touched down as otherwise the commander may have elected to request for a go around and/or diversion to an alternate airfield.
4. There have been some speculative and unconfirmed reports which suggest that ‘Kingfisher Airlines may have disregarded guidelines or flouted norms’ and so on. Kingfisher Airlines places guest safety and comfort above everything else. We categorically deny all such reports as untrue and aimed at maligning our reputation. For the record, we would like to highlight the following material points which will amply demonstrate that we are in full compliance with guidelines with regard to Tuesday closures at Mumbai Airport.
5. Beginning Friday November 6, 2009 on various occasions Kingfisher Airlines and other airline operators at Mumbai Airport brought up concerns regarding the Tuesday closures and on at least 5 different occasions since then, all airlines were in dialogue with MIAL to discuss and address various concerns.
6. On Monday November 9, 2009 following a verbal notification received by Kingfisher Airlines (at around 6.30pm) from the authorities that a “G’ class NOTAM had been issued, we proactively located the notification, studied the guidelines specified therein for operation of “C” class aircraft (Boeing and Airbus) and our Flight Operations department issued a circular to all pilots and concerned stakeholders specifying the precautions to be taken for Tuesday shortened runway operations at Mumbai Airport. With the issue of this circular within hours of being made aware of the “G’ class NOTAM, Kingfisher Airlines complied with the requirements specified with regard to operations of “C” class Airbus aircraft. Hence, there is no question of Kingfisher Airlines having violated any guidelines or flouted any norms.
7. On Tuesday November 10, 2009 , Kingfisher Airlines proactively delayed a number of flights (which had not yet departed from their city of origin) including those flights that were ready for departure from Mumbai Airport.
8. In light of the above, we would like to emphasize that:
a. Kingfisher Airlines took immediate and proactive steps to comply with the guidelines issued by the DGCA late in the evening of Monday November 9, 2009 with regard to flight operations of Airbus type of aircraft on the shortened runway on Tuesday.
b. The pilot of the aircraft involved in the unfortunate incident yesterday landed after receiving due clearance from the ATC at Mumbai Airport, given that the airport operator had chosen to keep the airport open.
9. Given that a full-fledged investigation is underway by our flight safety department and given that we are working and cooperating closely with the DGCA on their parallel investigation, we would urge editorial teams not to succumb to sensationalist information from phantom based sources and we will be happy to clarify any such malicious rumours and/or speculation that may surface.
Prakash Mirpuri
Vice President - Corporate Communications
The UB Group
Hoechst House, 5th Floor
Nariman Point
Mumbai 400 021
[email protected]
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could be a pilot error=normal scapegoat
WTF.......obviously the scapegoat is the pilot..
atc= cares nothing...maintenance is by MIAL.. the airport developer..victim is the pilot...why is the atc not blamed for allowing/ clearing the aircraft to land.. if it was a regulators (DGCA's) restrictions of no landings of A320s.. of the other carriers Goair and IC....(not this atr..).. the pilots are derostered...WTF... why is the atc not accountable..
just a thought.. why not have this work on a sundays....10 to 16 in the day.. or maybe same time.. 12-18 in the afternoon..like on tuesdays..rain...or no rain.. less flights on sundays.. =less disruptions=less delays=less fuel wastage= less pollution=less inconvenience....
the r/w 27... just before the exit taxiway N-8 and also just before and after exit N-7 is very slippery ..this is the new touchdown zone..due to rubber deposits.. in the rains it can be deadly.. as proven yesterday..
also there is water logging near exit N-9 and exit N-10 and also N-9 n' N-10 are not quick exit taxiways..
...less than three years back there was a hull loss
...sahara airlines wrote off a B737, VT-SID ...in similar weather..the aircraft had to be written off..as it ran out of the runway at the same spot..
the other reasons were..also probably..due to tailwinds.. gusty and higher approach speeds and late touchdown..in similar gusty and slippery..n' ..wet weather..conditions..
guys operating into mumbai..
use all possible safe flying techniques..all stops even if the runway is fully available ..when the runway is wet.. whichever be the runway.. wet...plzzzzzzz
happy landings always..god bless....
p.s. i am presently not and did never fly for kingfisher or sahara airlines..
atc= cares nothing...maintenance is by MIAL.. the airport developer..victim is the pilot...why is the atc not blamed for allowing/ clearing the aircraft to land.. if it was a regulators (DGCA's) restrictions of no landings of A320s.. of the other carriers Goair and IC....(not this atr..).. the pilots are derostered...WTF... why is the atc not accountable..
just a thought.. why not have this work on a sundays....10 to 16 in the day.. or maybe same time.. 12-18 in the afternoon..like on tuesdays..rain...or no rain.. less flights on sundays.. =less disruptions=less delays=less fuel wastage= less pollution=less inconvenience....
the r/w 27... just before the exit taxiway N-8 and also just before and after exit N-7 is very slippery ..this is the new touchdown zone..due to rubber deposits.. in the rains it can be deadly.. as proven yesterday..
also there is water logging near exit N-9 and exit N-10 and also N-9 n' N-10 are not quick exit taxiways..
...less than three years back there was a hull loss
...sahara airlines wrote off a B737, VT-SID ...in similar weather..the aircraft had to be written off..as it ran out of the runway at the same spot..
the other reasons were..also probably..due to tailwinds.. gusty and higher approach speeds and late touchdown..in similar gusty and slippery..n' ..wet weather..conditions..
guys operating into mumbai..
use all possible safe flying techniques..all stops even if the runway is fully available ..when the runway is wet.. whichever be the runway.. wet...plzzzzzzz
happy landings always..god bless....
p.s. i am presently not and did never fly for kingfisher or sahara airlines..
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with all due regards
hi friends,
sincerely wish that the derostered pilots are re-rostered..all the best guys..
happy landings and that too on the shortened 27 on tuesday...till it lasts and then on sundays if it happens..
dreams come true..
sincerely wish that the derostered pilots are re-rostered..all the best guys..
happy landings and that too on the shortened 27 on tuesday...till it lasts and then on sundays if it happens..
dreams come true..
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seems that the investigation is complete and its all the pilots fault
6 pilots de-rostered after plane-skid in Mumbai
6 pilots de-rostered after plane-skid in Mumbai
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Anyone know the nationality of the Captain?
Before you all string me up and ask what difference it makes, whether it was a local or expat. The facts are, if it was an expat he/she will be out on their ear. If it was a local, then they will try and find an expat that signed him/her off on a check, and fire the expat.
Before you all string me up and ask what difference it makes, whether it was a local or expat. The facts are, if it was an expat he/she will be out on their ear. If it was a local, then they will try and find an expat that signed him/her off on a check, and fire the expat.
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Safety Board Needed
The great witch hunt and blame game has started. After every accident/incident the same rigmarole takes place of how to apportion blame and met out punishment. All those involved in this exercise comprise those who have self interests in their positions and organizations, like the Civil Aviation Ministry, DGCA, Airlines, Unions etc.
The larger picture of aviation safety is always ignored. Time and again pilot bodies in India have requested for the setting up of an Independent Safety Authority, comprising retired aviation experts like pilots, engineers, atcs, etc who understand aviation operational systems or the lack of them, have no self interest, and can pro-actively prevent such disasters from re-occurring with non penal safety reporting of incidents by pilots and other personnel involved with flight operations. A Reprisal Free reporting system would work wonders towards an accident free environment.
The sooner these thick headed babus realize the macro picture the better it will be for flight safety and aviation in India.
Aeronotix.
The larger picture of aviation safety is always ignored. Time and again pilot bodies in India have requested for the setting up of an Independent Safety Authority, comprising retired aviation experts like pilots, engineers, atcs, etc who understand aviation operational systems or the lack of them, have no self interest, and can pro-actively prevent such disasters from re-occurring with non penal safety reporting of incidents by pilots and other personnel involved with flight operations. A Reprisal Free reporting system would work wonders towards an accident free environment.
The sooner these thick headed babus realize the macro picture the better it will be for flight safety and aviation in India.
Aeronotix.
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de-roster.. the pilot.. tell this to the media..
STN Ramp Rat-the rat on the ramp
someone thinks he knows-all says derostering is equal to blame = end of enquiry
seems that the investigation is complete and its all the pilots fault
6 pilots de-rostered after plane-skid in Mumbai
who says so-that derostering of a pilot is the end of the blame game.
if a pilot is involved in any incident if he continues flying the enquiry cannot progress. the pilots involved will be needed to be available for the enquiry so derostering will help to finish the enquiry at the earliest. if found guilty then obviously there will be corrective training or other means of apportioning blame will happen. and in my post above i have mentioned...WTF- why pilots were derostered. 23 landings and 17 takeoffs had taken place during the wet runway-shortened R/W 27-A was in use on the said date.
why only the 6 pilots were derostered (2 of them GO-Air are back up and flying). 2 officers from the regulator, DGCA observers were sitting in the ATC observing the operations on that day. have they also been suspended? if not why not? why only blame the pilots.
someone thinks he knows-all says derostering is equal to blame = end of enquiry
seems that the investigation is complete and its all the pilots fault
6 pilots de-rostered after plane-skid in Mumbai
who says so-that derostering of a pilot is the end of the blame game.
if a pilot is involved in any incident if he continues flying the enquiry cannot progress. the pilots involved will be needed to be available for the enquiry so derostering will help to finish the enquiry at the earliest. if found guilty then obviously there will be corrective training or other means of apportioning blame will happen. and in my post above i have mentioned...WTF- why pilots were derostered. 23 landings and 17 takeoffs had taken place during the wet runway-shortened R/W 27-A was in use on the said date.
why only the 6 pilots were derostered (2 of them GO-Air are back up and flying). 2 officers from the regulator, DGCA observers were sitting in the ATC observing the operations on that day. have they also been suspended? if not why not? why only blame the pilots.
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