Will fluent mandarin help a 200hr fATPL holder to get a job in PRC?
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Will fluent mandarin help a 200hr fATPL holder to get a job in PRC?
It seems like China is recruiting pilots and that they are in need of thousands of pilots in the next years to come. I have studied mandarin Chinese for about four years and two of those were in China, which makes my Chinese quite good, if not fluent. I can read and speak without any problems, although I am of course not as good as a native Chinese person.
My questions:
When (if) doing my pilot program, should I primarily focus on the Chinese market and get the licenses required to fly there? Should I even consider doing the pilot program in China? Bel air, for example, has a commercial pilot package that meets China CAAC flight training requirements. It also includes 20 hours of Turboprop King Air C90A. This package is more expensive than the normal JAA+FAA package they offer though...
I guess if there is little or no chance to get a TR and later a job as FO in China, even if I speak Chinese, then I should probably drop this idea and figure out something else.
I hope that someone with insight in the Chinese market can help me. I am very helpful for any advice and any help I can get.
/MattSun
My questions:
When (if) doing my pilot program, should I primarily focus on the Chinese market and get the licenses required to fly there? Should I even consider doing the pilot program in China? Bel air, for example, has a commercial pilot package that meets China CAAC flight training requirements. It also includes 20 hours of Turboprop King Air C90A. This package is more expensive than the normal JAA+FAA package they offer though...
I guess if there is little or no chance to get a TR and later a job as FO in China, even if I speak Chinese, then I should probably drop this idea and figure out something else.
I hope that someone with insight in the Chinese market can help me. I am very helpful for any advice and any help I can get.
/MattSun
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With your language skills, I would think you would be very popular as a flight instructor with some of the schools that teach the Chinese students. You could build lots of hours, improve your Chinese, and network, so when the time comes, you know all of the right people flying in China. I'm sure they might help work out a visa for you at the school.
Chinese pilots train at Redding flight school Redding Record Searchlight
Chinese pilots train at Redding flight school Redding Record Searchlight
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Expat flight instructors with CAAC licenses and ratings, thousands of hours TT, still can't get a foot in the door with Chinese Airlines. Although being able to speak Mandarin is a bonus, it really is a lot more complicated than that to get in to the airlines in China if you are a low time newbie.
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Haha, the Chinese sounds very "Google translate"... 
English can't be translated directly into Chinese like that, it is a bit more complicated. But being a westerner I can understand what it means by translating it back again directly. I don't think someone coming from mainland China would have any idea of what it says... 
BusyB - thanks for the advice! I agree... it's always good to try.
Cruiseclimb - what you say sounds very interesting! I haven't even thought about that before. Do you know anyone who has done something similar? (Any language.)
English can't be translated directly into Chinese like that, it is a bit more complicated. But being a westerner I can understand what it means by translating it back again directly. I don't think someone coming from mainland China would have any idea of what it says... BusyB - thanks for the advice! I agree... it's always good to try.
Cruiseclimb - what you say sounds very interesting! I haven't even thought about that before. Do you know anyone who has done something similar? (Any language.)
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200hrs would be OK if you were a Chinese citizen; but not as an expat. Typically, expat contractors require to be current and qualified on type. Think of your ambition this way: Would a 200hr Chinese pilot with no residency permit, but who spoke fluent Swedish, get a sponsorship for an F/O job with a Swedish carrier?
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Think of your ambition this way: Would a 200hr Chinese pilot with no residency permit, but who spoke fluent Swedish, get a sponsorship for an F/O job with a Swedish carrier?
The reason why they bring in expat pilots on contract is so that their local pilots can learn from the experienced expat. You wont have much to offer being a 200 hour pilot with fluency in Mandarin. The locals already know how to speak Mandarin, so what benefit will you have to offer them?
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Originally Posted by WeiShenMe
Expat flight instructors with CAAC licenses and ratings, thousands of hours TT, still can't get a foot in the door with Chinese Airlines. Although being able to speak Mandarin is a bonus, it really is a lot more complicated than that to get in to the airlines in China if you are a low time newbie.
Originally Posted by GlueBall
200hrs would be OK if you were a Chinese citizen; but not as an expat. Typically, expat contractors require to be current and qualified on type.
Originally Posted by GlueBall
Think of your ambition this way: Would a 200hr Chinese pilot with no residency permit, but who spoke fluent Swedish, get a sponsorship for an F/O job with a Swedish carrier?
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Yes. But you can't compare Swedish/Scandinavian aviation with the Chinese. At the end of the day it's all about supply and demand. Someone like MattSun would be preferred over a 200 hr pilot who did NOT speak the language. Same as the one who spoke Swedish would be preferred over the one who only spoke English.
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The more important question would be: Do you really want to work in China?
Fines for QAR violations; contracts changed without recourse; contracts cancelled when they don't need you anymore; etc; etc.
The best advice so far was to aim for Cathay's cadet program if you really need to be in the area, otherwise you'll be better off in the European market in the years to come.
I speak pretty good Mandarin; know the area quite well; and I wouldn't want to go to work for any of the contracts there right now. They're too insecure.
Typhoonpilot
Fines for QAR violations; contracts changed without recourse; contracts cancelled when they don't need you anymore; etc; etc.
The best advice so far was to aim for Cathay's cadet program if you really need to be in the area, otherwise you'll be better off in the European market in the years to come.
I speak pretty good Mandarin; know the area quite well; and I wouldn't want to go to work for any of the contracts there right now. They're too insecure.
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As a non-pilot ..
Unless you can change your name to chinese sounding, and also your skin color and everything to chinese, it will not be much use, atleast in the long long run.
They will smile at your 'accented' chinese, if at all you managed to speak with the different nasal tones of the language, but will be amused in private, if not in public ..
Better stick to English, than trying to learn the difficult language. My experience says, unless you are a person of extreme importance, and you demand respect, non-natives speaking the native language is frowned upon ... generally. And depending upon the tribe, it maybe a simple frown a downright look of disgust, especially when a word in their language has different meanings if the tones vary ..
That's my 0.02$ take on living in Asia ..
Unless you can change your name to chinese sounding, and also your skin color and everything to chinese, it will not be much use, atleast in the long long run.
They will smile at your 'accented' chinese, if at all you managed to speak with the different nasal tones of the language, but will be amused in private, if not in public ..
Better stick to English, than trying to learn the difficult language. My experience says, unless you are a person of extreme importance, and you demand respect, non-natives speaking the native language is frowned upon ... generally. And depending upon the tribe, it maybe a simple frown a downright look of disgust, especially when a word in their language has different meanings if the tones vary ..
That's my 0.02$ take on living in Asia ..
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Once in the blue moon we chuckle at people with English printed t-shirt or Chinese character tatto that doesn't make any sense. You've all seen them before.
Slasher and ZFT. I don't know where your guys are coming from. it does not make any sense.
Are you gay?
Slasher and ZFT. I don't know where your guys are coming from. it does not make any sense.
誰 性 交 是 足 够 瘋 狂 的
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I am not going to give any more comments about the "Chinese" posts from Slasher and ZFT... you better go learn Chinese before writing it. Use English if you can't write PROPER Chinese.
To Glueball, WeiShenMe and thornycactus: I am well aware of your point that it might be pointless to look for work in China. But with the market as it is, I think that getting a job in China as a newbie might be easier than in Europe and the States. At least China is HIRING new pilots. They hardly aren't here in Sweden...
I don't know which of you have lived in China or for how long and if you know Chinese. I have lived there for two years, and I am aware of the advantages and disadvantages with a life there as a foreigner, but I speak Chinese and that is a big plus. I learn languages quite fast and easy as well. It is a great gift to have that ability, which I am happy for. I speak fluent German as well as Swedish and English. Ecureilx, I don't have much accent and mandarin doesn't the nasal tones that Thai and Cantonese has, which makes the tones much easier to learn. If I speak over the phone, hardly anyone hear that I am a foreigner if it's a simpler kind of conversation. Only if it gets more complicated, they can hear from the words I am using and my grammar that I have a western language as first language. As far as I know, they usually treat foreigners better than locals... and if a foreigner speaks good Chinese they are very keen to help out and support you. I don't know about the aviation business though...
My whole point is that I want a job after I completed my studies. Somewhere. Anywhere. This job is so that I can build hours for a couple of years and gain experience. After that, I can come back to Europe and work here, with better terms and better pay. I know I can never blend into the Chinese society. As Ecureilx writes, I need to change skin color and mentality to be able to do that.
I can still give it a try, but first I will look at Cathay and if it doesn't work I can always try to work as an instructor until things get better.
To Glueball, WeiShenMe and thornycactus: I am well aware of your point that it might be pointless to look for work in China. But with the market as it is, I think that getting a job in China as a newbie might be easier than in Europe and the States. At least China is HIRING new pilots. They hardly aren't here in Sweden...
I don't know which of you have lived in China or for how long and if you know Chinese. I have lived there for two years, and I am aware of the advantages and disadvantages with a life there as a foreigner, but I speak Chinese and that is a big plus. I learn languages quite fast and easy as well. It is a great gift to have that ability, which I am happy for. I speak fluent German as well as Swedish and English. Ecureilx, I don't have much accent and mandarin doesn't the nasal tones that Thai and Cantonese has, which makes the tones much easier to learn. If I speak over the phone, hardly anyone hear that I am a foreigner if it's a simpler kind of conversation. Only if it gets more complicated, they can hear from the words I am using and my grammar that I have a western language as first language. As far as I know, they usually treat foreigners better than locals... and if a foreigner speaks good Chinese they are very keen to help out and support you. I don't know about the aviation business though...
My whole point is that I want a job after I completed my studies. Somewhere. Anywhere. This job is so that I can build hours for a couple of years and gain experience. After that, I can come back to Europe and work here, with better terms and better pay. I know I can never blend into the Chinese society. As Ecureilx writes, I need to change skin color and mentality to be able to do that.
I can still give it a try, but first I will look at Cathay and if it doesn't work I can always try to work as an instructor until things get better.
