Hainan Airways /+/-/?
Hainan Airways /+/-/?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Surrey, UK
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A330 Euro Base
I'm based in BRU on the 330 with the rest.
I know one guy is in TXL and the others in BUD (767).
My Agency is completely useless and an immense disappointment and watch what they write you in the contract!
Lines are PEK-SEA, PEK-BRU, PEK-TXL that I usually fly (all return).
CONS
Paid in USD. No currency protection. Now we are the losers like most Pilots who reside in the EU.
Always fly over 80 hrs, but never see OT payments.
Always a huge cockfight to get the days off in BRU. Rarely 6 in a row.
Home lic. and medical not covered.
All pilots make their owns deals which undermines the contract and weakens - the rest.
Not always paid the Base salary on time (2x late), & nobody tells you in advance from the agency.
The meal allowances during init. training were NEVER paid to anyone.
The other allowances are paid late by weeks sometimes.
The room provided in beijing is 2 star dorm like building right next to the OM of runway 36L. Forget resting properly or eating decent.
Refunds for expenses paid partially or not at all and if lucky 2-4 months later.
After initial training YOU have to pay your hotel when on company business and then wait months if you are lucky to receive a refund.
Weekly schedules only.
Flight Time counts only when in SEAT, not as per contract.
Complaints or problems largely ignored when done by email.
When on DUTY travel often only sent with a Standby ticket or GENDEC!
Off days not given as per the contract and promised next month which often only happens when you get pissy with them.
All Leave days are never fully given and paid out after each year. In my case 18 days. Would rather the time off.
Crew for the most part speak little english and basic ICAO 4.
Hotels are 2-4 stars.
Crew rest during flights is in Business class seats - right next to Eco so always a lot of noise and difficult to rest.
Penalty culture - have a QAR, miss training, call in sick = Fined min. $1000.
Chinese Income tax payment proof not provided.
The airline will change Y&C's at their Will and my Agency has not ONCE worked for this fee that they deduct each mont!
PROS
Aircraft are new.
Canteen in beijing is subsidized and - well - survivable.
Medical, VISA and local lic .fees paid by co.
Manuals and SOP are good.
Maint. is very good.
Dispatching is good, timely and friendly staff.
Food while flying all though chinese - plenty of it.
No sacking if you eat the peanuts.
Excessive sim training and line checks but unlike KAL friendly.
Always pilot flying, FOs are never PF. Always do the RT.
Other pilots even locals in the same boat and friendly.
Cabin crew very young, usually friendly and hard working.
50/50 mix night and day flights.
Not a reporting culture.
You will spend a fair bit of time in Beijing -winter is coming. Winter has come and it is very cold!
It a job right now but when the market picks many of us will have to reconsider!
I know one guy is in TXL and the others in BUD (767).
My Agency is completely useless and an immense disappointment and watch what they write you in the contract!
Lines are PEK-SEA, PEK-BRU, PEK-TXL that I usually fly (all return).
CONS
Paid in USD. No currency protection. Now we are the losers like most Pilots who reside in the EU.
Always fly over 80 hrs, but never see OT payments.
Always a huge cockfight to get the days off in BRU. Rarely 6 in a row.
Home lic. and medical not covered.
All pilots make their owns deals which undermines the contract and weakens - the rest.
Not always paid the Base salary on time (2x late), & nobody tells you in advance from the agency.
The meal allowances during init. training were NEVER paid to anyone.
The other allowances are paid late by weeks sometimes.
The room provided in beijing is 2 star dorm like building right next to the OM of runway 36L. Forget resting properly or eating decent.
Refunds for expenses paid partially or not at all and if lucky 2-4 months later.
After initial training YOU have to pay your hotel when on company business and then wait months if you are lucky to receive a refund.
Weekly schedules only.
Flight Time counts only when in SEAT, not as per contract.
Complaints or problems largely ignored when done by email.
When on DUTY travel often only sent with a Standby ticket or GENDEC!
Off days not given as per the contract and promised next month which often only happens when you get pissy with them.
All Leave days are never fully given and paid out after each year. In my case 18 days. Would rather the time off.
Crew for the most part speak little english and basic ICAO 4.
Hotels are 2-4 stars.
Crew rest during flights is in Business class seats - right next to Eco so always a lot of noise and difficult to rest.
Penalty culture - have a QAR, miss training, call in sick = Fined min. $1000.
Chinese Income tax payment proof not provided.
The airline will change Y&C's at their Will and my Agency has not ONCE worked for this fee that they deduct each mont!
PROS
Aircraft are new.
Canteen in beijing is subsidized and - well - survivable.
Medical, VISA and local lic .fees paid by co.
Manuals and SOP are good.
Maint. is very good.
Dispatching is good, timely and friendly staff.
Food while flying all though chinese - plenty of it.
No sacking if you eat the peanuts.
Excessive sim training and line checks but unlike KAL friendly.
Always pilot flying, FOs are never PF. Always do the RT.
Other pilots even locals in the same boat and friendly.
Cabin crew very young, usually friendly and hard working.
50/50 mix night and day flights.
Not a reporting culture.
You will spend a fair bit of time in Beijing -winter is coming. Winter has come and it is very cold!
It a job right now but when the market picks many of us will have to reconsider!
Last edited by Brookfield Abused; 13th Dec 2009 at 11:53. Reason: improvements
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Brookfield Abused. That was a very accurate post.
I was about to get on here and tell the world exactly what I think of the Hainan group but you have nailed it 100%.
Don’t touch them with a 40 foot pole. Same goes for any of their subsidiaries such as Hong Kong Airlines, or Hong Kong Express. It is EXACTLY the same as you describe there.
And if you think a contract means anything in China, forget it. You’re not protected in China and if you think you can take it to court to solve your problems forget it. Believe it or not the court system in China is one of the most corrupt in the world and you have not got a chance.
Work for ANY OTHER CONTRACT IN THE WORLD and avoid the Hainan group and China at all costs.
I was about to get on here and tell the world exactly what I think of the Hainan group but you have nailed it 100%.
Don’t touch them with a 40 foot pole. Same goes for any of their subsidiaries such as Hong Kong Airlines, or Hong Kong Express. It is EXACTLY the same as you describe there.
And if you think a contract means anything in China, forget it. You’re not protected in China and if you think you can take it to court to solve your problems forget it. Believe it or not the court system in China is one of the most corrupt in the world and you have not got a chance.
Work for ANY OTHER CONTRACT IN THE WORLD and avoid the Hainan group and China at all costs.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA-China
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Hmmm... One persons bad experience with an agency becomes the RULE???
There are several foreign pilots working for a sub of HNA group here with me and NOT once have we been paid late, shorted, tickets reimbursed, vacation not given or anything else. As matter of fact the treatment here does NOT compare to the treatment at ANY legacy carrier in the US, as we ALL work for in the past.
Pick a GOOD agency like DPI, Rishworth or PARC and you'll never look back...
There are several foreign pilots working for a sub of HNA group here with me and NOT once have we been paid late, shorted, tickets reimbursed, vacation not given or anything else. As matter of fact the treatment here does NOT compare to the treatment at ANY legacy carrier in the US, as we ALL work for in the past.
Pick a GOOD agency like DPI, Rishworth or PARC and you'll never look back...
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Payment in China????
One bad person's experience with an agency becomes everyone's RULE.
Then READ BELOW!
Old 4th November 2009, 04:59 #82 (permalink)
fly_fly
Probationary PPRuNer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastwest
Posts: 4
Thumbs down wasinc - stay away from them
do your homework before considering wasinc.
they are good on the phone and good at getting you to sign up but then leave you stranded and don't follow through. then they don't return phone calls or emails. they still owe me over $10,000 from the end of a contract. airline paid them, they kept the money. do your research, I'm not the only one. this is not I've heard or somebody told me, this is first hand experience and has happened to some other guys I know.
stay away from wasinc.
This is right out of the horses mouth. I have heard loads of things about China. If you have US dollars in your account saved, you have a hard time taken it out of China. Airlines in China have penalties for any misdemeanor, etc.
I have just joined PPRUNE but I have been reading a lot of this for very long time. But I have heard from friends that some guys went over to Hainan for interview and they were put up in an apartment building. Not even a hotel. This is HNA group, subsidary we are talking about. They had such a dissappointment, they never expected to be eating in a canteen. Thats what the airlines offered take it or leave it. No one spoke any English. This is recent sometime in September 2009.
They met other pilots who were working there said pay was below standard and were thinking about leaving to Korea. I myself was surprised because I heard good things but even the simulator evaluation was tough with multiple failures. Single engine plus dual RA failure plus Hydraulic failure and direct law altogether with cross wind.
What do those guys want acrobats?
I am also looking for a position but considering Korea or Vietnam, even Air Asia would be better. I called Macau Express, they seem to be interested in f.o and Capt.
Hey JotaJota! Looks like you are working for a perfect airline or getting paid highly. Which airline is that I would like to know so I can apply too. But reading this,I don't know man.gl
Then READ BELOW!
Old 4th November 2009, 04:59 #82 (permalink)
fly_fly
Probationary PPRuNer
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastwest
Posts: 4
Thumbs down wasinc - stay away from them
do your homework before considering wasinc.
they are good on the phone and good at getting you to sign up but then leave you stranded and don't follow through. then they don't return phone calls or emails. they still owe me over $10,000 from the end of a contract. airline paid them, they kept the money. do your research, I'm not the only one. this is not I've heard or somebody told me, this is first hand experience and has happened to some other guys I know.
stay away from wasinc.
This is right out of the horses mouth. I have heard loads of things about China. If you have US dollars in your account saved, you have a hard time taken it out of China. Airlines in China have penalties for any misdemeanor, etc.
I have just joined PPRUNE but I have been reading a lot of this for very long time. But I have heard from friends that some guys went over to Hainan for interview and they were put up in an apartment building. Not even a hotel. This is HNA group, subsidary we are talking about. They had such a dissappointment, they never expected to be eating in a canteen. Thats what the airlines offered take it or leave it. No one spoke any English. This is recent sometime in September 2009.
They met other pilots who were working there said pay was below standard and were thinking about leaving to Korea. I myself was surprised because I heard good things but even the simulator evaluation was tough with multiple failures. Single engine plus dual RA failure plus Hydraulic failure and direct law altogether with cross wind.
What do those guys want acrobats?
I am also looking for a position but considering Korea or Vietnam, even Air Asia would be better. I called Macau Express, they seem to be interested in f.o and Capt.
Hey JotaJota! Looks like you are working for a perfect airline or getting paid highly. Which airline is that I would like to know so I can apply too. But reading this,I don't know man.gl
Papi Jet
O.K. Any news around, after the BRU road show (PLEASE -DO NOT MISTAKE WITH OFF-ROAD SHOW!!!!)
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Hainan Airlines
Good Post Brookfield Abused..! I have not flown for Hainan but many areas seem to be the same in China, with Chinese Carriers.
1. Punishment Culture- QAR crazy, make mistake, Fined, written up and placed on company website for all to see.
2. Hotels-One to two star cheap poor conditions
3. Schedule- 4-5 days out, sometimes 2 days
4. Minimum ICAO level 4 English
5. Checkrides- friendly checkrides but but multiple fairlures, Dual Hyd, Dual FCU, Dual ADIRS, Dual Flameouts, lots of hand flying without AP
6. Plenty of food no problems
7. Friendly staff
8. Split Shifts called rest in between less than 8 consecutive hours
9. Normal dispatch is timely and good but Little to no help on diversions, fuel burns etc.
10. Crowded cockpits- 2- FO's and sometimes a translator
11. Company meetings- on days off no pay
12. Money is good.
China could be worse but it takes some getting used to. Just gets tiring with the language barrier.
Good Luck,
On Final
1. Punishment Culture- QAR crazy, make mistake, Fined, written up and placed on company website for all to see.
2. Hotels-One to two star cheap poor conditions
3. Schedule- 4-5 days out, sometimes 2 days
4. Minimum ICAO level 4 English
5. Checkrides- friendly checkrides but but multiple fairlures, Dual Hyd, Dual FCU, Dual ADIRS, Dual Flameouts, lots of hand flying without AP
6. Plenty of food no problems
7. Friendly staff
8. Split Shifts called rest in between less than 8 consecutive hours
9. Normal dispatch is timely and good but Little to no help on diversions, fuel burns etc.
10. Crowded cockpits- 2- FO's and sometimes a translator
11. Company meetings- on days off no pay
12. Money is good.
China could be worse but it takes some getting used to. Just gets tiring with the language barrier.
Good Luck,
On Final
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Under the sea
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Does anyone know of any other contract agencies representing the Hainan contract?
Brookfield sounds like a no-go.
GPSCrew offers the $12 000 "bonus" every six months without violation of CAAC or company rules. Sounds like a convenient way for GPSCrew to make $12 000.
Any others?
Brookfield sounds like a no-go.
GPSCrew offers the $12 000 "bonus" every six months without violation of CAAC or company rules. Sounds like a convenient way for GPSCrew to make $12 000.
Any others?
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Surrey, UK
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Agency - which one?
Brookfield = NO WAY!
GPS = NO but better than above!
The above is based on about 15 pilots feedbacks
There is one more, those working for them seem a little bit more happy. I think the name is Huaxun.
Good luck!
GPS = NO but better than above!
The above is based on about 15 pilots feedbacks
There is one more, those working for them seem a little bit more happy. I think the name is Huaxun.
Good luck!
