Air Asia? Very strange!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In the rain
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There aren't many FOs to upgrade in the company because many are tempted by the insane salaries in the sand pit and bugger off before they have enough time to switch seats. The guys who stay do get command eventually but there aren't enough to meet the growth demands.
Captains take home about USD7000 which considering the cost of living is a very good salary. The TR is paid for by the company but there's a bond.
As to hiring non-typed FOs into the left seat I really don't see what the big deal is. Airmanship and command potential have nothing to do with how many hours someone has on type, the sim check isn't looking at knowledge of the aircraft or handling as much as it is management of the flight deck.
They've stopped hiring non-typed FOs into the left seat now anyway, you either need the rating or previous command elsewhere.
S.
Captains take home about USD7000 which considering the cost of living is a very good salary. The TR is paid for by the company but there's a bond.
As to hiring non-typed FOs into the left seat I really don't see what the big deal is. Airmanship and command potential have nothing to do with how many hours someone has on type, the sim check isn't looking at knowledge of the aircraft or handling as much as it is management of the flight deck.
They've stopped hiring non-typed FOs into the left seat now anyway, you either need the rating or previous command elsewhere.
S.
Last edited by babotika; 24th Oct 2009 at 22:21. Reason: spelling
Guest
Posts: n/a
The truth I am referring to is..
1) Almost all all if not all growing airlines will have to hire DEC's.
2) Command is a maturity issue not just a skills issue... a very famous quote I hold close to my heart made by a retiring Chief Pilot..."what is smart may not be wise and what is wise may not be smart"
3) There is no relevance to your current rating when you are being sim checked for a job. All experienced employers know how to asses your command ability regardless if you are type rated or not. Your familiarization with the particular AC you are being checked on is not as important as your CRM,maturity and command decision making ability.
4) A lot of airline will rather hire DEC's at the expense of their own FO's as it is considered cheaper by the bean counters and they bring in immediate experience.
Whether I believe in the above items are irrelevant as it is the reality of the industry.This is the message/truth/reality that I refer to. Don't hate/shoot/kill the messenger if you don't like the message/truth/reality.
Safe Flying.
1) Almost all all if not all growing airlines will have to hire DEC's.
2) Command is a maturity issue not just a skills issue... a very famous quote I hold close to my heart made by a retiring Chief Pilot..."what is smart may not be wise and what is wise may not be smart"
3) There is no relevance to your current rating when you are being sim checked for a job. All experienced employers know how to asses your command ability regardless if you are type rated or not. Your familiarization with the particular AC you are being checked on is not as important as your CRM,maturity and command decision making ability.
4) A lot of airline will rather hire DEC's at the expense of their own FO's as it is considered cheaper by the bean counters and they bring in immediate experience.
Whether I believe in the above items are irrelevant as it is the reality of the industry.This is the message/truth/reality that I refer to. Don't hate/shoot/kill the messenger if you don't like the message/truth/reality.
Safe Flying.
Last edited by a345xxx; 25th Oct 2009 at 02:28.
Guest
Posts: n/a
555 ...
Personal attacks...I don't think so.
Your Immaturity/Inexperience...You have not proven otherwise.
CCQ is cross crew qualification... only applicable to Airbuses not Boeings and only if recognized by the airline and local authority.
Hiring Boeing pilots to fly Airbuses and vice versa... is not only an AK practice. SQ, QR, EK and countless other airlines do it.
You are not erring on conservatism, you are falling back on your inexperience.
Safe Flying.
PS Please stop referring to Air Asia as AA....is AK. AA i believe is American Airlines. This was highlighted in a a much earlier thread.
Personal attacks...I don't think so.
Your Immaturity/Inexperience...You have not proven otherwise.
CCQ is cross crew qualification... only applicable to Airbuses not Boeings and only if recognized by the airline and local authority.
Hiring Boeing pilots to fly Airbuses and vice versa... is not only an AK practice. SQ, QR, EK and countless other airlines do it.
You are not erring on conservatism, you are falling back on your inexperience.
Safe Flying.
PS Please stop referring to Air Asia as AA....is AK. AA i believe is American Airlines. This was highlighted in a a much earlier thread.
Last edited by a345xxx; 25th Oct 2009 at 02:30.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: At home
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a345xxx,
I think 555orange is referring to the fact that AK gives a non rated A320 FO being given a command position. All the airlines which you mentioned i.e SQ, EK, QR and EY gives rating on their aeroplanes to guys who are already Captains. I must agree with 555, that I haven't heard about any airline giving a 737 rated F0 a DEC position in their airline.
I could be wrong...please correct me.
I am also just using 555's 1st post in this thread, cos the rest of his response was to counter all the other rebuttals made which wasn't relevant to his 1st post.
If we are talking about a non-rated Capt being given a DEC position, then it's a different argument altogether.
Peace bro.....
safe flying always
I think 555orange is referring to the fact that AK gives a non rated A320 FO being given a command position. All the airlines which you mentioned i.e SQ, EK, QR and EY gives rating on their aeroplanes to guys who are already Captains. I must agree with 555, that I haven't heard about any airline giving a 737 rated F0 a DEC position in their airline.
I could be wrong...please correct me.
I am also just using 555's 1st post in this thread, cos the rest of his response was to counter all the other rebuttals made which wasn't relevant to his 1st post.
If we are talking about a non-rated Capt being given a DEC position, then it's a different argument altogether.
Peace bro.....
safe flying always
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Guys.
Yep, I'm referring to AA (Air Asia) hiring non typed FO's into Captains seats. Ie: A 737 FO who has never flown an Airbus to a A320 Capt position based on an interview. and purely on his total flight time.
I argue that total time is not enough. 345 thinks that it is.
I argue that AA(Air Asia) cannot reasonably do a sim eval on a non type rated guy if they are using 320 sims. (Yes yes..other carriers do steam driven raw data... but then their not hiring DECs from a pool of non typed FO's!). 345 argues that you can.
I argue that you cannot reasonably tell if a candidate is suitable to be a captain when you just looking at total time, and whatever they do for interview. (not sure what they do for interview but if anyone knows...please jump in). 345 argues that you can.
Further, I make other points:
1. I belive its adding risk. A non type going DEC 320 increased your chance initially to have an incident, and vs/vs Bus-Boeing. Lets be clear: I am not talking about pilots that already work for the company... I know that is done all the time. We are talking about a 737 FO DEC 320 on the first interview. And it seems Air Asia agrees with me since previous post states they have stopped this practice.
2. There is a growth period moving from conventional to Airbus. More so in my opinion than vs/vs because we all initially trian from conventional. I dont believe its wise to combine this growth period with a Command from FO from another company and another type. I believe the better way is to hire FO's and give them 1 year and then upgrade. Limit your risks.
3. I believe that this is purely a effort by Air Asia cut a corner and pay Captains less than other companies. If they payed market or more for a Captain they would get Captains and everyone would benefit. What they are doing is just driving salaries down. Great for those 737/747 drivers that can get a quick command though off the backs of the rest of us.
4. Hey.. Babotika: My opinion: I believe that you cannot asess command in a sim interview. Are you familiar with Air Aisa? How long is the sim eval per candidate and how many candidates are evaluated each day? I will say again, sim flying is entirely dynamic. You will do a stellar job 9/10 times, and one day do a not so good job. You cannot exclude judgement from this. It would be foolish to decide command potential from a single sim event. History is the best and safest indicator.
For these points, 345 called me young and immature! Im so upset now.
Safe flying to you 345. Lets have some discussion with out throwing mindless #### please.
btw: My bad on CCQ... I meant a type change. IE boeing to bus. Sorry about using "AA"... but I won't use the other acronyms because others may not know them.
Babotika, any idea why Air Asia decided to stop doing it?
Yep, I'm referring to AA (Air Asia) hiring non typed FO's into Captains seats. Ie: A 737 FO who has never flown an Airbus to a A320 Capt position based on an interview. and purely on his total flight time.
I argue that total time is not enough. 345 thinks that it is.
I argue that AA(Air Asia) cannot reasonably do a sim eval on a non type rated guy if they are using 320 sims. (Yes yes..other carriers do steam driven raw data... but then their not hiring DECs from a pool of non typed FO's!). 345 argues that you can.
I argue that you cannot reasonably tell if a candidate is suitable to be a captain when you just looking at total time, and whatever they do for interview. (not sure what they do for interview but if anyone knows...please jump in). 345 argues that you can.
Further, I make other points:
1. I belive its adding risk. A non type going DEC 320 increased your chance initially to have an incident, and vs/vs Bus-Boeing. Lets be clear: I am not talking about pilots that already work for the company... I know that is done all the time. We are talking about a 737 FO DEC 320 on the first interview. And it seems Air Asia agrees with me since previous post states they have stopped this practice.
2. There is a growth period moving from conventional to Airbus. More so in my opinion than vs/vs because we all initially trian from conventional. I dont believe its wise to combine this growth period with a Command from FO from another company and another type. I believe the better way is to hire FO's and give them 1 year and then upgrade. Limit your risks.
3. I believe that this is purely a effort by Air Asia cut a corner and pay Captains less than other companies. If they payed market or more for a Captain they would get Captains and everyone would benefit. What they are doing is just driving salaries down. Great for those 737/747 drivers that can get a quick command though off the backs of the rest of us.
4. Hey.. Babotika: My opinion: I believe that you cannot asess command in a sim interview. Are you familiar with Air Aisa? How long is the sim eval per candidate and how many candidates are evaluated each day? I will say again, sim flying is entirely dynamic. You will do a stellar job 9/10 times, and one day do a not so good job. You cannot exclude judgement from this. It would be foolish to decide command potential from a single sim event. History is the best and safest indicator.
For these points, 345 called me young and immature! Im so upset now.
Safe flying to you 345. Lets have some discussion with out throwing mindless #### please.
btw: My bad on CCQ... I meant a type change. IE boeing to bus. Sorry about using "AA"... but I won't use the other acronyms because others may not know them.
Babotika, any idea why Air Asia decided to stop doing it?
Guest
Posts: n/a
555 your main argument is that AK is giving an unrated FO a command. If the AK evaluators and higher management believe they are good enough even if they are not rated who are you to say otherwise?
Your only argument against the practice is because your friend an FO on the 320 was not offered a command slot. Now were you there during the eval session? If the evaluation found the other guy competent its no diss to your friend..maybe he had a bad day, maybe there were other considerations. Maybe the other guys were really good? Have you considered all of this?
BTW you seem to be the only one that seems to have a problem with this process and also with using the correct code..AK
Safe flying.
Your only argument against the practice is because your friend an FO on the 320 was not offered a command slot. Now were you there during the eval session? If the evaluation found the other guy competent its no diss to your friend..maybe he had a bad day, maybe there were other considerations. Maybe the other guys were really good? Have you considered all of this?
BTW you seem to be the only one that seems to have a problem with this process and also with using the correct code..AK
Safe flying.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 49
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone have the contact details for AK recruitment? If not, know someone who would be able to give good info on these positions. I will be in KL next month and wouldn't mind having a chat, or speaking to the office there.
Appreciate if anyone has the time to send a PM.
Thanks.
Appreciate if anyone has the time to send a PM.
Thanks.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite right 777. I am in no position to say otherwise. Just stuck on a layover and reaquianting with pprune since I brought my laptop and nothing better to do this time. Thought this was something unique an interesting debate. I'm also guilty for **** disturbing. But the fun (freedom) is coming to an end and I have to head home soon.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: canada
Age: 34
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
regarding air asia
hi im fresh cpl holder from canada looking to work with air asia ,
i just want to know what r the requiremnets for low timer to apply and any other requirements.
i would be happy if u reply regarding this
i just want to know what r the requiremnets for low timer to apply and any other requirements.
i would be happy if u reply regarding this
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
You need an ATPL for employment but right now I believe they have stopped recruiting foreigners (F/O). The evaluation is done in a more structured and systematic way nowadays. If you are rated on the A320, then you would be asked on A320 stuff and also whatever deemed appropriate. A guy from EK, QR, EY, SQ would be asked on their current company SOP etc. Mind you, the new recruitment management team has got all the sources (updated manuals from these companies). They do their homework and tailors the questions based on your level of experience, company and type of aircraft you fly. Well, no one can answer all questions 100% correctly but they will know what kind of pilot/person you are if you cannot answer YOUR current company SOP. So, it is not necessary that an Airbus guy can pass or make it. Just like your sim check ride every 6 months, if you screw up on that day, you cannot fall back and say, "Hey, I have 10000 hours on the BUS, its just today I can't perform, must be the sim visual, not good!" Too bad, that is the way we pilots have to live with. No second chance... especially in the aircraft. Real aircraft!
You need an ATPL for employment but right now I believe they have stopped recruiting foreigners (F/O). The evaluation is done in a more structured and systematic way nowadays. If you are rated on the A320, then you would be asked on A320 stuff and also whatever deemed appropriate. A guy from EK, QR, EY, SQ would be asked on their current company SOP etc. Mind you, the new recruitment management team has got all the sources (updated manuals from these companies). They do their homework and tailors the questions based on your level of experience, company and type of aircraft you fly. Well, no one can answer all questions 100% correctly but they will know what kind of pilot/person you are if you cannot answer YOUR current company SOP. So, it is not necessary that an Airbus guy can pass or make it. Just like your sim check ride every 6 months, if you screw up on that day, you cannot fall back and say, "Hey, I have 10000 hours on the BUS, its just today I can't perform, must be the sim visual, not good!" Too bad, that is the way we pilots have to live with. No second chance... especially in the aircraft. Real aircraft!
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Indonesia
Age: 52
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no wonder
Just curious, how much " the airlines " pay for commander A 320.
Cause we here ( some local airline in Indonesia which operates Airbus ), only receive around $ 3000/ month, TAKE HOME PAY....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cause we here ( some local airline in Indonesia which operates Airbus ), only receive around $ 3000/ month, TAKE HOME PAY....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
