Air India's turn around plan
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Psst Guys , don't bother wasting your time on this thread.If you were to guess the fate of AI 10 years hence I can give you a pretty accurate picture.The bailout package is almost ready.Once it's been given , there'll be a lot of gung ho talk about how the airline will be the one to watch out for after 5 years and blah...blah blah.Meanwhile the same **** will continue and after about 10 years they'll be in another mess when the next recession kicks in and they'll be handed another bailout.So quite honestly there really is no point in wasting your time.The show will go on in AI...read, AI throwing **** at the pax , the pax throwing **** at AI , the government throwing **** at AI , the media throwing **** at AI and AI getting immersed deeper in ****...
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No Difference
@Top Tup:
If you want to change the system, you have to accept the system or the system will reject you. Thereby denying itself and you a chance to change it. With no disagreement on whatever you have said, I do envy your position where in you can walk out and say, "not my business any more". While IndAir67 or me cannot and should not afford to have a similar position.
Just to highlight this difference, for example, if my commander, in flight requests me if he can smoke. I can do a lots of thing.
* Deny him and cite company policy and make sure that I fail the sim-session involving fictional ILS approach with one engine and two hydraulic systems failed.
* Allow him to smoke, and put on my oxygen mask.
* Allow him, don't put the mask, and gently hand him the two page pamphlet about adverse affects of smoking on flying performance. (Of which, I keep a copy ready)
Whatever I chose, I have to balance out risks, to my job and my passengers. It is unfortunate but some of us are in this situation.
And, about the 200hr pilots on right seat. Some people learn every hour, others stop learning after some time. Its not the 200hrs that matter, its the quality of training that matters. I am not saying that those in the right seats are as good as a 3000 hr pilot. Just that in principle they are good enough for the job, otherwise Boeing or the insurance companies themselves will point out the deficiency.
To IndAir67, and some others..
Its not about the 'culture-difference', it is how much of our culture do we reflect in our professional lives. We use different cultural yardstick in our personal and professional conduct.
Happy Landings
Jim
If you want to change the system, you have to accept the system or the system will reject you. Thereby denying itself and you a chance to change it. With no disagreement on whatever you have said, I do envy your position where in you can walk out and say, "not my business any more". While IndAir67 or me cannot and should not afford to have a similar position.
Just to highlight this difference, for example, if my commander, in flight requests me if he can smoke. I can do a lots of thing.
* Deny him and cite company policy and make sure that I fail the sim-session involving fictional ILS approach with one engine and two hydraulic systems failed.
* Allow him to smoke, and put on my oxygen mask.
* Allow him, don't put the mask, and gently hand him the two page pamphlet about adverse affects of smoking on flying performance. (Of which, I keep a copy ready)
Whatever I chose, I have to balance out risks, to my job and my passengers. It is unfortunate but some of us are in this situation.
And, about the 200hr pilots on right seat. Some people learn every hour, others stop learning after some time. Its not the 200hrs that matter, its the quality of training that matters. I am not saying that those in the right seats are as good as a 3000 hr pilot. Just that in principle they are good enough for the job, otherwise Boeing or the insurance companies themselves will point out the deficiency.
To IndAir67, and some others..
Its not about the 'culture-difference', it is how much of our culture do we reflect in our professional lives. We use different cultural yardstick in our personal and professional conduct.
Happy Landings
Jim
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jimmi & skydancer
Sky: you're mostly right, unless the indian tax payers someday realize they are paying too much for the infamous party...
jimmi: sorry, but it's senseless bull**** even for a wannabe like you...trying to justify the unjustifiable...
jimmi: sorry, but it's senseless bull**** even for a wannabe like you...trying to justify the unjustifiable...
Last edited by fullforward; 9th Sep 2009 at 10:11.
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Air India
Well AI needs to first reduce it's staffing before thinking of moving on (and for that i dont mean purchasing more aircraft and keeping them on the ground to make the numbers look good). In order to do that it will need to first slug it out with the union. Ooops did some one say union?
Either way another 5000 crs of tax payer money burned up
Either way another 5000 crs of tax payer money burned up
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Skydancer, I regrettably agree with you.
Jimmy.... Well, you are precisely the problem. You are one of those who have their head so firmly concreted in the sand that you believe you're own rot, what's more you justify it. You would rather turn a blind eye so as not to fail a corrupt sim propagating from a a corrupt SYSTEM. You look after YOURSELF and therefore allow the dispicable system to flourish. Such professionalism!
I have colleagues at Boeing and some are 777 instructors. They all but wash their hands of AI in may respects. And please do not harp on about your TRAINING. It is offensive. You only embarress yourself in front of those who have the backbone to admit what goes on. Again, you deny and embrace it, then justify it.
In "principle" a doctor leaves university with medical degree. Why not allow him/her to operate on you the next day? Just because he/she has no experience or further EFFECTIVE training shouldn't matter should it? So, are we still talking "principles"?
I have seen those 200 hr 777 pilots operate, and many, many others at AI: from Cmdrs to FOs. I tried to improve things, failed those who didn't reach the standard, passed those who did, enforced SOPs, set standards but was harrassed and victimised, so I left. You say "I have no choice?" Well, if your TRAINING and EXPERIENCE is so good, why not go to another airline? Some are beginning to recruit again. MUCH better money, terms and conditions!! Go on! Compare your "STANDARDS" to the rest of the world's pilot body n an interview. Then, if you fail perhaps you could look back on the system you belive so great. If you pass, send me a PM and the first beer is on me.
None of you will because that cash cow of mediocrity still permits you to bathe in your own ill-gotten beliefs of "standards". Sad.
That's me signing off from this thread. My head stopped bleeding from that brick wall a while ago. I'm not going to re-open that gaping wound. Good LUCK, because you are definitely not SAFE.
AI's rescue plan? HA! Look at what those who work there believe in!
Jimmy.... Well, you are precisely the problem. You are one of those who have their head so firmly concreted in the sand that you believe you're own rot, what's more you justify it. You would rather turn a blind eye so as not to fail a corrupt sim propagating from a a corrupt SYSTEM. You look after YOURSELF and therefore allow the dispicable system to flourish. Such professionalism!
I have colleagues at Boeing and some are 777 instructors. They all but wash their hands of AI in may respects. And please do not harp on about your TRAINING. It is offensive. You only embarress yourself in front of those who have the backbone to admit what goes on. Again, you deny and embrace it, then justify it.
In "principle" a doctor leaves university with medical degree. Why not allow him/her to operate on you the next day? Just because he/she has no experience or further EFFECTIVE training shouldn't matter should it? So, are we still talking "principles"?
I have seen those 200 hr 777 pilots operate, and many, many others at AI: from Cmdrs to FOs. I tried to improve things, failed those who didn't reach the standard, passed those who did, enforced SOPs, set standards but was harrassed and victimised, so I left. You say "I have no choice?" Well, if your TRAINING and EXPERIENCE is so good, why not go to another airline? Some are beginning to recruit again. MUCH better money, terms and conditions!! Go on! Compare your "STANDARDS" to the rest of the world's pilot body n an interview. Then, if you fail perhaps you could look back on the system you belive so great. If you pass, send me a PM and the first beer is on me.
None of you will because that cash cow of mediocrity still permits you to bathe in your own ill-gotten beliefs of "standards". Sad.
That's me signing off from this thread. My head stopped bleeding from that brick wall a while ago. I'm not going to re-open that gaping wound. Good LUCK, because you are definitely not SAFE.
AI's rescue plan? HA! Look at what those who work there believe in!
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@ Sky Dancer,
Even though your thoughts are fairly accurate,how come this coming from YOU of all people.An ex sahara pilot who comes from one of the most dis organised airlines in india.If i have ever seen one!
But...like i said your thinking's still un warped. Surprise surprise...!!
P.S-AK is still looking for you there in sahara(now jetlite).You're on the rosters still as AWOL.....
Even though your thoughts are fairly accurate,how come this coming from YOU of all people.An ex sahara pilot who comes from one of the most dis organised airlines in india.If i have ever seen one!
But...like i said your thinking's still un warped. Surprise surprise...!!
P.S-AK is still looking for you there in sahara(now jetlite).You're on the rosters still as AWOL.....
Last edited by boeingdream787; 9th Sep 2009 at 18:30. Reason: Addition of P.S.
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@ Sky Dancer again-
Quote "AI throwing **** at the pax , the pax throwing **** at AI , the government throwing **** at AI , the media throwing **** at AI and AI getting immersed deeper in ****"
Then how come you're still working with AI (should I say OR its subsidiary)!!
Could it be because YOU and people like you ARE part of this termite ridden airline called AI/AIE.And can't for the life of you find another job.Because YOU ARE the termites that destroyed this company. Could that be possible.....??!!??
Quote "AI throwing **** at the pax , the pax throwing **** at AI , the government throwing **** at AI , the media throwing **** at AI and AI getting immersed deeper in ****"
Then how come you're still working with AI (should I say OR its subsidiary)!!
Could it be because YOU and people like you ARE part of this termite ridden airline called AI/AIE.And can't for the life of you find another job.Because YOU ARE the termites that destroyed this company. Could that be possible.....??!!??
.
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TOPTUP
My recomendation: dont' loose your valuable time and efforts with such idiots.
50 years and billiards of people's crores will be wasted before such kind of people wake up from the 17 century caves...
Sh...oles like jimmi got the job likewise many others: some relationship with a quite honest government officer, who appointed people like him as a God gift to aviation...and they really think they are!
50 years and billiards of people's crores will be wasted before such kind of people wake up from the 17 century caves...
Sh...oles like jimmi got the job likewise many others: some relationship with a quite honest government officer, who appointed people like him as a God gift to aviation...and they really think they are!
