Working in China
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Working in China
I've just been offered a Bizjet position completely out of the blue based in China, am just wondering what is potentially involved in respect of license conversions, medicals, and more likely living expenses vs what is considered a reasonable expat salary.
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Hi
Hi there...im relaying a good post i read previously...and i think it is undoubtfully the reality of working in a Chinese airline. Enjoy....hope it helps.
Medical exam:
The Chinese, smoke, drink and dont eat healthy; you on the other hand are going to be put through a screening that is like nothing you've ever seen before....why give them any reasons to fail your medical. They will flagg anything and most of the time, it's for no good reason.
CAAC ATP EXAM
This will be like a PC but can be with multiple failures. The chinese like them and will be looking at your CRM skills as well as your ability to fly and diagnose. This is not easy ! be prepared ! if you have no glass cockpit time, you can purchase some when you get here. The cost is what you'd pay in the USA.
Here is an example: you dont like something (with good reason), and you voice your opinion (without them asking you for it). On your next PC you fail ! You ask yourself (and the instructor) what the Fuc* did I fail for? The next day you are looking for a new job. (for this to happen you have to be a serious jerk or have a huge mouth. It's not the norm but it does happen).
The Chinese think that they are the best pilots in the world. No advice you have will be good enough for them....so, just fly, go home, fly, go home...collect a paycheck. Get my point?
FYI, this airline also fines you $$$ for when you do something wrong. Anything that is not SOP and you get caught ie. QAR tells on you or you screw something up, you will get into trouble. The cost depends on the infraction. They have a menu of infractions and cost that your recruiter can show you...if they have them. (this kind of punishment is not good but so far, there is nothing that we can do about it).
Having a job is the objective (at least for me). The culture is different and so is the way the Airline does business. If your a proud pilot and think your too good to be a "contract pilot" then stay home. All of us here have had, to some degree, learn that this is not the West. This place is humbling and you'll soon realize that your not at home anymore. ie. If your one of those pilots that has a big stick up your..you know what...pull it out and leave it at home. This is Asia and they do things differently !
This country is 30 years behind the USA in aviation theory and practice. That goes from the ATC system right down to CRM and the way you are treated!
Lastly I like to add something about WASINC and other head hunters. There are many posts that say good thing and bad things. I even have some of my own opinions but, remember what they (headhunters) are here for. They connect you with a job and get $$ each month that you stay.
The contract that you agree to is black and white..read it! After that, you'll still run into issues when you get over here; that is a fact. SO, realize who pays the bills for WASINC (and others). They can not manipulate your contract after you realize that something is screwed up. ...and there will be things that are screwed up.
Medical exam:
- EKG while running (actually its not running, it's walking fast.) on a treadmill. You will be sweating at the end of this test even if you are in decent shape. They are stressing your heart. You'll run in pants (what ever you have on) and socks...no shoes. As time goes by the treadmill inclines.
- Blood work (check kidney functions and for cholesterol..please no comments on my poor spelling)
- Brain scann...I'm not kidding!
- Check reflexes and bone structure (squats and look at you in your underwear, check hands).
- Eyes (if you wear contacts or glasses...no problem just make sure you bring them..bringing a prescription will only confuse the doctors)
- Hearing test
- Ultrasound your kidneys and look for gallstones (this is the one that seems to be tricky....if you have them, you fail and need to get them removed...if you have small ones or just a slight chance of having them later....you'll need to remove them).
The Chinese, smoke, drink and dont eat healthy; you on the other hand are going to be put through a screening that is like nothing you've ever seen before....why give them any reasons to fail your medical. They will flagg anything and most of the time, it's for no good reason.
CAAC ATP EXAM
- Study. There will be 10-20 questions that dont make ANY sense and will be in half Chineese and half in the worst english you've ever seen. I had to quess at them.
- Study the USA ATP Written...It has 100 questions from that.
- You'll take your Test in Guangzhou. There will be a company van that picks you up and returns you to the beautiful Sunway hotel (hope you like a hard..hard bed; did I mention that the beds were hard?).
- If you fail...you can retake the test but you will pay for it yourself..I forget how much it costs but it's not expensive; something like $8.00 US (dont hold me to that). Small price to pay for a job!
This will be like a PC but can be with multiple failures. The chinese like them and will be looking at your CRM skills as well as your ability to fly and diagnose. This is not easy ! be prepared ! if you have no glass cockpit time, you can purchase some when you get here. The cost is what you'd pay in the USA.
- Your F/O will be another Captain canidate in your group. If your company does anthing other than Boeing or Airbus procedures then you'll have fun...just use good CRM with eachother. Thats the one thing that foreign pilots do well on here. They dont expect you to know Shenzhen Airlines procedures.
- 2 hours or so per person.
- They dont like hard landings in the sim (landing hard on line can mean a fine...read below on fines).
- When you have an engine fire or failure, dont go strait out for miles. Ask for a turn ASAP and start heading in the right direction.
- I had an engine fire. I was relaxed and handled the problem but the instuctor didnt understand why I didnt make a 180 and land. The fire went out so I didnt bother....still, the next time, I'll do a 180 and land even if it is out.
- Get ready for crappy vectors: you be on a 90deg headingto the LOC and they will say "call established on the LOC". In the USA that translates to "you are cleared for the approach, turn to what ever heading you like and fly it". Flying the line is like that too.
- They expect you to be lightning fast with everything..dont let them rush you. To them the faster you are the better a pilot you are; we know better than that. But, dont be too slow.
- If you do something contrary to the QRH, have a good reason.
- I can almost guarantee that you will have a fuel leak.
- Hyd and slat and flap failures.
- You will always be landing in a crosswind!
- Dont fly fast...you'll learn that on line as well.
Here is an example: you dont like something (with good reason), and you voice your opinion (without them asking you for it). On your next PC you fail ! You ask yourself (and the instructor) what the Fuc* did I fail for? The next day you are looking for a new job. (for this to happen you have to be a serious jerk or have a huge mouth. It's not the norm but it does happen).
The Chinese think that they are the best pilots in the world. No advice you have will be good enough for them....so, just fly, go home, fly, go home...collect a paycheck. Get my point?
FYI, this airline also fines you $$$ for when you do something wrong. Anything that is not SOP and you get caught ie. QAR tells on you or you screw something up, you will get into trouble. The cost depends on the infraction. They have a menu of infractions and cost that your recruiter can show you...if they have them. (this kind of punishment is not good but so far, there is nothing that we can do about it).
Having a job is the objective (at least for me). The culture is different and so is the way the Airline does business. If your a proud pilot and think your too good to be a "contract pilot" then stay home. All of us here have had, to some degree, learn that this is not the West. This place is humbling and you'll soon realize that your not at home anymore. ie. If your one of those pilots that has a big stick up your..you know what...pull it out and leave it at home. This is Asia and they do things differently !
This country is 30 years behind the USA in aviation theory and practice. That goes from the ATC system right down to CRM and the way you are treated!
Lastly I like to add something about WASINC and other head hunters. There are many posts that say good thing and bad things. I even have some of my own opinions but, remember what they (headhunters) are here for. They connect you with a job and get $$ each month that you stay.
The contract that you agree to is black and white..read it! After that, you'll still run into issues when you get over here; that is a fact. SO, realize who pays the bills for WASINC (and others). They can not manipulate your contract after you realize that something is screwed up. ...and there will be things that are screwed up.
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^^
EPASZ, good points... I agree with most...
Are you with Shenzhen or Juneyao???
JJ
P.S. The Sunway Hotel ROCKS!
Are you with Shenzhen or Juneyao???
JJ
P.S. The Sunway Hotel ROCKS!
...neither of them. But Shenzhen is where we fly out from. Not many other choice around is there? (well i guess we're in direct competition with Juneyao in the Shenzhen port Of course Sunway hotel rocks (for the area it is in)...better than all the other great hotels u find in that pitty little village....hope u had a walk in there and see. lol
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LOL... Well crap! Sichuan or OKay? I don't fly to Shenzhen so no clue who are dominant carriers there. Anyway safe flying!
Yep, have walked all over that village several times, and have got to "barter" in price with the ladies at the store just to the rt of the Sunway! hahaha
Yep, have walked all over that village several times, and have got to "barter" in price with the ladies at the store just to the rt of the Sunway! hahaha
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If crews are staying at the Sunway.....walk past the golf course and take a left at the first light. Walk down road towards the final to 15. Big thached roof seafood restaurant on left side. Good view, good food, cold beers and nice waitresses. Cheap too!
VRSC
Cannot read the name of restaurant though.
VRSC
Cannot read the name of restaurant though.
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FO Cokebottle Its my learned opinion that you must be really hard up for a job if you are actively seeking employment in the land of the PRC...
As I left my 6 figure job in the states and NOT looking back!
It all depends on who do you got to work for. Such a generalized statement is a bit immature and well uneducated! PEACE!
As I left my 6 figure job in the states and NOT looking back!
It all depends on who do you got to work for. Such a generalized statement is a bit immature and well uneducated! PEACE!
Its my learned opinion that you must be really hard up for a job if you are actively seeking employment in the land of the PRC......just ask Lei Feng
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FO Cokebottle
JotaJota,
Not to get into a pi@#ing contest with you , but you really have missed the point of the post.
Take care and hope you get recalled soon.
F.O.C.
I agree! I must have missed it!!!
Oh and I am NOT furloughed, and have never been in my whole career!
Still a few years and a lot of changes before I return to my previous US Airline. What a JOKE!
Peace...
JotaJota,
Not to get into a pi@#ing contest with you , but you really have missed the point of the post.
Take care and hope you get recalled soon.
F.O.C.
I agree! I must have missed it!!!
Oh and I am NOT furloughed, and have never been in my whole career!
Still a few years and a lot of changes before I return to my previous US Airline. What a JOKE!
Peace...
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Thanks very much to all those who have contributed to this thread, and who have contacted me privately.
As I said, this is for a Bizjet job, not an airline job (Been there done that), so thanks again.
As I said, this is for a Bizjet job, not an airline job (Been there done that), so thanks again.
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Yep....10k is offered by Wasinc....not good.
Not sure if DP or RISH have lowered the bar too.
Sanya...no longer available
Sanya will be THE base!!! Some of you might not like it, as it's a REAL 3rd world country, and nothing like any big city in mainland China... and did I said that the pay SUCKS! DP refused to take the contract, so only those two have it. JY, Sich and Shen have much better contracts now...
Not sure if DP or RISH have lowered the bar too.
Sanya...no longer available
Sanya will be THE base!!! Some of you might not like it, as it's a REAL 3rd world country, and nothing like any big city in mainland China... and did I said that the pay SUCKS! DP refused to take the contract, so only those two have it. JY, Sich and Shen have much better contracts now...
