Too Young?
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Phone call
Wouldnīt a phone call to one of the people he flew with verify the truth? It is common practice to ask for a Person who can verify that he was employed / flew for that outfit. Either he was logging the "Atari" hours as well or he is the Genious in Aviation.
I remember one of my Training Captains on the Turboprop, he was in command with 26 and had more then 5000 hours. He was "young" as well and did some Ferry flying over the Atlantic with Fairchild. He got a job later as F/O on the A330 for about 2 years and then upgrade again. He startet his PPL with 17 and got his Commercial Licence with 19. Impressive to watch him flying back then. Today he is with EK, well expirienced and bored but wealthy. In his case I would say young but not too young, today he is young enough.
Fly safe and land happy
NG
I remember one of my Training Captains on the Turboprop, he was in command with 26 and had more then 5000 hours. He was "young" as well and did some Ferry flying over the Atlantic with Fairchild. He got a job later as F/O on the A330 for about 2 years and then upgrade again. He startet his PPL with 17 and got his Commercial Licence with 19. Impressive to watch him flying back then. Today he is with EK, well expirienced and bored but wealthy. In his case I would say young but not too young, today he is young enough.
Fly safe and land happy
NG
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Full time job....
Any of us who has flown even close to 1,000 hours in a 12 month period know that it is a full time job to get to that point. It doesn't allow for a lot of off time. During a (even close to) 1,000 hour year, quite a few nights are spent away from home. So where is (was) the time to do all of the normal things a person of 16, 17, 18 and so on, might do? School, study, sleep, just to name a few.... I don't think people are bashing, just finding it VERY hard to believe. Someone above is very correct in saying many here (at Pprune) enjoy bashing and belittling others, but I think not the case here. I believe it is just shear disbelief. 
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No offence to my Pprune colleagues but why are you all still discussing this.
There are at least 2 fundamental sentences he has mentioned which shows he is a complete and utter liar.
1. Not requiring a CPL to be in the RHS of a 742-F. WTF????
2. Getting his PPL at 16 when we all know you have to be 17 to get your PPL but can go solo at 16.
Kids, go back to school.
figurof8,
are you going for the record of the most gullible person of 2009?
There are at least 2 fundamental sentences he has mentioned which shows he is a complete and utter liar.
1. Not requiring a CPL to be in the RHS of a 742-F. WTF????
2. Getting his PPL at 16 when we all know you have to be 17 to get your PPL but can go solo at 16.
Kids, go back to school.
figurof8,
are you going for the record of the most gullible person of 2009?
Thread Starter
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Thank you
Betpump,
You are an insulting, arrogant, miserable SOB. Your PM was (not so) much appreciated, and there is nothing I feel for you but complete sorrow. I am sure you have brilliant CRM, an extrememly happy wife and kids who adore the sight of you returning from a trip. At least that is all true if your pprune personality has absolutely nothing at all to do with real life. Unfortunately, that's not very likely. At least I don't have to put up with you except on here, which is more than enough.
I came on pprune to ask a simple question. Nothing else. It wasn't a job interview or a request for reference, just a piece of advice. At the end of the day, my experience is exactly what I said. To people who have issues with any of it, I'm sorry to disappoint but the hours and facts are all exactly correct. I was very blessed to have people that mentored me, took some amount of risk to put me where they did, etc. I also worked my freakin' tail off and had almost no life for the better part of ten years, so I'm not going to apologize for moving rapidly.
To the five people who sent me PM's and the ones who made legitimate points on here, I truly am thankful. To the rest, whatever. What I don't get is why no one asked the question I would have immediately thought of..."Why on earth would anyone come on here, join the site, and make all this up to ask a question that would have absolutely no relevance in any way whatsoever if it weren't all true?" If I only have a license to drive a milk truck, then my question is pretty pointless, isn't it? So why waste my time on making the post initially?
Finally, I have met plenty of people on the ramp and in the terminal at airports around the world with stories that blew me away. I've met them in the cockpit, too. I one time flew with a Captain who started flying when he was 12 years old. Flew with another who was hired to fly a B58 at 16 and making money at it. Hate to tell you, but the whole world isn't the US and UK. Again, the facts are all completely true, and the original question was legit and meant with sincere interest.
I was respectful in asking and have always been the same in my dealings at work. I wish the same were true on here.
You are an insulting, arrogant, miserable SOB. Your PM was (not so) much appreciated, and there is nothing I feel for you but complete sorrow. I am sure you have brilliant CRM, an extrememly happy wife and kids who adore the sight of you returning from a trip. At least that is all true if your pprune personality has absolutely nothing at all to do with real life. Unfortunately, that's not very likely. At least I don't have to put up with you except on here, which is more than enough.
I came on pprune to ask a simple question. Nothing else. It wasn't a job interview or a request for reference, just a piece of advice. At the end of the day, my experience is exactly what I said. To people who have issues with any of it, I'm sorry to disappoint but the hours and facts are all exactly correct. I was very blessed to have people that mentored me, took some amount of risk to put me where they did, etc. I also worked my freakin' tail off and had almost no life for the better part of ten years, so I'm not going to apologize for moving rapidly.
To the five people who sent me PM's and the ones who made legitimate points on here, I truly am thankful. To the rest, whatever. What I don't get is why no one asked the question I would have immediately thought of..."Why on earth would anyone come on here, join the site, and make all this up to ask a question that would have absolutely no relevance in any way whatsoever if it weren't all true?" If I only have a license to drive a milk truck, then my question is pretty pointless, isn't it? So why waste my time on making the post initially?
Finally, I have met plenty of people on the ramp and in the terminal at airports around the world with stories that blew me away. I've met them in the cockpit, too. I one time flew with a Captain who started flying when he was 12 years old. Flew with another who was hired to fly a B58 at 16 and making money at it. Hate to tell you, but the whole world isn't the US and UK. Again, the facts are all completely true, and the original question was legit and meant with sincere interest.
I was respectful in asking and have always been the same in my dealings at work. I wish the same were true on here.
I'm not questioning you on your past hours, but if I were you, I'd just apply to those airlines you stated, Korean, Singapore Airlines etc and let them decide whether you're suitable or not for the job. I don't really see the point in you asking here. This ain't Big Brother where you get voted off pprune island, mate. Just apply if you have the minimum requirements.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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In SIA the minimum age for a Singaporean FO is 26, National Service complete. Non Singaporeans can join younger but have a 'penalty' added to their DOJ to ensure they don't get an unfair advantage over their Singaporean colleagues. SIA would look very closely at your hours and they would also write to your employer before they offer you a contract to ensure you are who you say you are etc. The youngest DEC I met was in his forties, many are in their fifties.
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Guys, I don't know this guy but I do believe what he writes. However i also think he logged time early in his his flying career that shouldn't be counted . BTW in the US you don't need a CPL to get an FE licence. There are a # of cargo outfits in the US that this scenario could have been played out...JW
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That is my view above. I feel he is telling the truth, but unfortunately has logged quite a bit of flight time under rules and regulations that he wasn't qualified for and is thus invalid. Many falsely assume that you can just sit in the cockpit and log whatever time you deem fit.
If the scenario was presented at any regional or major in the US, it would be scrutinized and ultimately dismissed as time logged in which the pilot was unsuitably certified. I would imagine an East Asian carrier used to hiring expats with solid, unquestionable jet time would be even more curious.
If the scenario was presented at any regional or major in the US, it would be scrutinized and ultimately dismissed as time logged in which the pilot was unsuitably certified. I would imagine an East Asian carrier used to hiring expats with solid, unquestionable jet time would be even more curious.
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"Why on earth would anyone come on here, join the site, and make all this up to ask a question that would have absolutely no relevance in any way whatsoever if it weren't all true?"
That is a good point you make. Something I did not give consequence to and also can not reply to. There are many reasons why someone may pretend to be someone they are not and to list them is meaningless.
However I am sure that you can appreciate why your thread has been met with a majority of cynicism rather than constructive posts. You have written statements that are so illegal that makes them untrue. Like having a PPL at 16 and don't even get me started on the "don't need a CPL to be a 747 pilot - relief or otherwise".
However, lets pretend for one nanosecond that what you have written is true.
Therefore...
You are a 747 Commander. So you should know full well that a large chunk of your 1000 of hours per year that you accumulated between 16 and 19 is not only un-loggable (I think I made that word up) but also invalid - I'd go as far as to say illegal.
There are many professional pilots who have queried your posts due to these hours. Sure you can say you have 8000 hours but this will be met with scrutiny as you have openly admitted that you have flown more than the limit each year every year.
There is a reasons we have a limit on the amount of hours you fly - especially if you work for an airline. In my airline, we have strict rules on personal private flying in case we reach the maximum and muck up the whole scheduling of our professional jobs. Not to mention human factors issues.
If the scenario was presented at any regional or major in the US, it would be scrutinized and ultimately dismissed as time logged in which the pilot was unsuitably certified. I would imagine an East Asian carrier used to hiring expats with solid, unquestionable jet time would be even more curious.
So it begs the question why tell us you have 8000 hours when a large part is actually invalid. Is it to impress us but on your application form you will actually only put the realistic figure of circa 5000 hours?
Your post has more holes than Swiss-cheese. So please forgive the cynicism. Hopefully my reply to you has summarised why I and many others have laughed in your face.
The post by IloveMidex basically ripped your hours to shreds. Care to reply to his/her post? One more thing, not many 747-400 Captains come onto pprune asking for advice on what they should do in terms of applications.....
figuro8 - you did reply..by replying.
Last edited by betpump5; 26th May 2009 at 12:31.
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One more thing - some laughable comments here:
I started flying with daddy at 6 years old when he flew with Danair. But you won't see any 727 hours in my log book.......
BE VERY CAREFUL. You are one sentence away from having every single aviation authority knocking on your door. And if I'm very much mistaken, a visit from the Feds!
1. You need to be 17 to be a PPL holder.
2. You can not fly for remuneration on a PPL.
3. You need to be 18 to have a CPL
Give it up.
I one time flew with a Captain who started flying when he was 12 years old
Flew with another who was hired to fly a B58 at 16 and making money at it
1. You need to be 17 to be a PPL holder.
2. You can not fly for remuneration on a PPL.
3. You need to be 18 to have a CPL
Give it up.
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UpEarly,
I donīt see whatīs the big deal. Let say your 8000 TT flying time and left seat on 747 are true, you should have maturity enough to.............just apply and go for it.
In my opinion your problem is not age. You donīt feel you can do it.
Anyway try and good luck!
Mr.White
767 Young Capt.
I donīt see whatīs the big deal. Let say your 8000 TT flying time and left seat on 747 are true, you should have maturity enough to.............just apply and go for it.
In my opinion your problem is not age. You donīt feel you can do it.
Anyway try and good luck!
Mr.White
767 Young Capt.
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FILEJW, you are correct, but....
filejw: BTW in the US you don't need a CPL to get an FE licence.
Sec. 63.31 Eligibility requirements; general.
To be eligible for a flight engineer certificate, a person must--
(a) Be at least 21 years of age;
etc.......................
and
Sec. 63.37 Aeronautical experience requirements.
..........................
b) An applicant for a flight engineer certificate with a class rating must present, for the class rating sought, satisfactory evidence of one of the following:
Sec. 63.31 Eligibility requirements; general.
To be eligible for a flight engineer certificate, a person must--
(a) Be at least 21 years of age;
etc.......................
and
Sec. 63.37 Aeronautical experience requirements.
..........................
b) An applicant for a flight engineer certificate with a class rating must present, for the class rating sought, satisfactory evidence of one of the following:
(1) At least 3 years of diversified practical experience in aircraft and aircraft engine maintenance (of which at least 1 year was in maintaining multiengine aircraft with engines rated at least 800 horsepower each, or the equivalent in turbine engine powered aircraft), and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.
(2) Graduation from at least a 2-year specialized aeronautical training course in maintaining aircraft and aircraft engines (of which at least 6 calendar months were in maintaining multiengine aircraft with engines rated at least 800 horsepower each or the equivalent in turbine engine powered aircraft), and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.
(3) A degree in aeronautical, electrical, or mechanical engineering from a recognized college, university, or engineering school; at least 6 calendar months of practical experience in maintaining multiengine aircraft with engines rated at least 800 horsepower each, or the equivalent in turbine engine powered aircraft; and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.
(4) At least a commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating and at least 5 hours of flight training in the duties of a flight engineer.
(5) At least 200 hours of flight time in a transport category airplane (or in a military airplane with at least two engines and at least equivalent weight and horsepower) as pilot in command or second in command performing the functions of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command.
(6) At least 100 hours of flight time as a flight engineer.
(7) Within the 90-day period before he applies, successful completion of an approved flight engineer ground and flight course of instruction as provided in Appendix C of this part.
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Sec. 63.31 Eligibility requirements; general.
To be eligible for a flight engineer certificate, a person must--
(a) Be at least 21 years of age;
etc.......................
and
To be eligible for a flight engineer certificate, a person must--
(a) Be at least 21 years of age;
etc.......................
and
However as per your post
For those with math challenges, which we'll cover more later as well, that's 19 years 10 months old and 3,266 hours according to my logbooks. Keeping up, are we?
Hired as SO on a 747-200 through a connection at work
Hired as SO on a 747-200 through a connection at work
....The Feds are coming UpEarly.
You have been rumbled.
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UpEarly,
For all i know, you might be from some 3rd world place where anything can happen and you can buy yourself some hours & a licence. Now i'm not saying that you ARE, but i am saying that in relation to your original question about whether carriers like Singapore, Japan, Korean will hire you - they will be looking into what experience that you are claiming here in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT most guys in this thread are.
You can say "don't believe, tough ****".... and whatever - that's not the point. The point is, if you apply to any of the above mentioned carriers for a Direct Entry Capt position and tell them the same story that you've told here, the likelihood is that not only will they reject your application, there is a far greater than even chance that they would also blacklist your name for any future applications on the grounds of being suspected of illegally logging hours in the first place.
As i've said, what you have done may be legal & legit from where you come from but in the said countries much of it is not. And remember, you are the one applying to them, not the other way around.
I dare say that i know what i am talking about; out of the 3 carriers that you mention, i have flown for two of them - AS PIC.
Do what you feel you must, but that's the way SIA/JAL/KAL will look at you.
For all i know, you might be from some 3rd world place where anything can happen and you can buy yourself some hours & a licence. Now i'm not saying that you ARE, but i am saying that in relation to your original question about whether carriers like Singapore, Japan, Korean will hire you - they will be looking into what experience that you are claiming here in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT most guys in this thread are.
You can say "don't believe, tough ****".... and whatever - that's not the point. The point is, if you apply to any of the above mentioned carriers for a Direct Entry Capt position and tell them the same story that you've told here, the likelihood is that not only will they reject your application, there is a far greater than even chance that they would also blacklist your name for any future applications on the grounds of being suspected of illegally logging hours in the first place.
As i've said, what you have done may be legal & legit from where you come from but in the said countries much of it is not. And remember, you are the one applying to them, not the other way around.
I dare say that i know what i am talking about; out of the 3 carriers that you mention, i have flown for two of them - AS PIC.
Do what you feel you must, but that's the way SIA/JAL/KAL will look at you.
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well done up early. you seem to have got an amazing headstart on your career. i just need some clarification from you or anybody who can help.
you said you logged hrs as a SO but you had no licence and you just did radio work? correct me if i am wrong, but shouldn't you at least have a radio operators licence to do that? also if you have no licence and if you are in the cockpit are you part of the flight crew team and are entitled to log the hrs? if yes, then wouldn't anybody who has managed to wrangle a jumpseat also be entitled to log the hrs he spent in the cockpit?
cheers,
you said you logged hrs as a SO but you had no licence and you just did radio work? correct me if i am wrong, but shouldn't you at least have a radio operators licence to do that? also if you have no licence and if you are in the cockpit are you part of the flight crew team and are entitled to log the hrs? if yes, then wouldn't anybody who has managed to wrangle a jumpseat also be entitled to log the hrs he spent in the cockpit?
cheers,
a345.... I think that there are more than a few individuals out in the wide world, who have logged hours by just being in the plane in seat 24B!!!
It's an interesting thought - if you fly your hours under a authority that say allows 1200 or 1400 a year ( maybe somewhere in central Africa) are those hours now "illegal" in another authorities eyes who would say only allow 1000??
As I said before - UpEarly bloody good luck!! If you do land something please let us know!
It's an interesting thought - if you fly your hours under a authority that say allows 1200 or 1400 a year ( maybe somewhere in central Africa) are those hours now "illegal" in another authorities eyes who would say only allow 1000??
As I said before - UpEarly bloody good luck!! If you do land something please let us know!
