Expat Captains in SIA..!!
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Thanks Parabellum for that enlightening and comforting post.However,it really wasn't the hours flown per month that I was hinting at, rather the "quality" of those hours(like you so rightly pointed out) which needed to be balanced.
And I think some are more 'balanced' than others,don't you think....
.
The same 70 hrs done by one pilot doing Lhr's/Cdg's and other europe destinations could differ by a kings ransom from one doing Dps and Kul shuttles.That was what I was trying to point out.Thanks for your input eitherways...goes well appreciated
.
And I think some are more 'balanced' than others,don't you think....
.The same 70 hrs done by one pilot doing Lhr's/Cdg's and other europe destinations could differ by a kings ransom from one doing Dps and Kul shuttles.That was what I was trying to point out.Thanks for your input eitherways...goes well appreciated
.
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I agree with you for once. ( King )
70-hrs on European / US COPs are nothing compared to regional COPs.
Especially when you're facing the same typhoon 3 times a week.
aka, HKG, TPE + MNL... take that for 70-hrs per-month.
70-hrs on European / US COPs are nothing compared to regional COPs.
Especially when you're facing the same typhoon 3 times a week.
aka, HKG, TPE + MNL... take that for 70-hrs per-month.
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How true.
And isn't it amazing how the 'not so lucky' ones ALWAYS end up doing the typhoon stations just during the typhoon season,whereas the 'blue eyed' ones would be doing all the europe Cop's during the same!
But to be fair to the rostering,the 'not so lucky' group too has their share of europe Cop's.....right in the midst of the fog season,and the xmas hols....lol...
..!! And this is when the others will do the "typhoon stations".Right in the midst of winter......lolol.
So much for balanced rostering...!!
Wonder who you have to feed out here to get a decent Cop!
WoW!
And isn't it amazing how the 'not so lucky' ones ALWAYS end up doing the typhoon stations just during the typhoon season,whereas the 'blue eyed' ones would be doing all the europe Cop's during the same!
But to be fair to the rostering,the 'not so lucky' group too has their share of europe Cop's.....right in the midst of the fog season,and the xmas hols....lol...
..!! And this is when the others will do the "typhoon stations".Right in the midst of winter......lolol.So much for balanced rostering...!!
Wonder who you have to feed out here to get a decent Cop!
WoW!
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Just remember one thing King, IT'S THEIR TRAIN SET, so go and get your own. Hopefully you might understand, but it's doubtful, the way you have spat the dummy in the past.
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This is exactly where the problem lies.The day we start saying "our" and not "their" is the day all these problems will disappear .
Sure its their train set,but we're playing the game too.And its not the company that matters rather the people that make the company.Therefore why this great divide.Or at least a pretense of a divide.
.Sure its their train set,but we're playing the game too.And its not the company that matters rather the people that make the company.Therefore why this great divide.Or at least a pretense of a divide.
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King,Correct me if i am wrong(and I might just be),but isn't this 'great divide' only in the minds of the pilots concerned.I always thought a pilot was a pilot be he(or she)singaporean,malaysian,indian,aussie or a bloody martian! Why should his being an expat or a local affect his thinking.I'm not saying that it doesn't ,but should it....?? Just a thought
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Hey guys.I've just been informed that the Sia pilots and managment have finally come to an agreement of a paycut for pilots to the tune of about 1.65 days no pay leave in lieu of NO RETRENCHMENTS..!!
Wow,is that true.If so then who's gotten shafted and who's laughing all the way to the bank? Just curious...
Wow,is that true.If so then who's gotten shafted and who's laughing all the way to the bank? Just curious...
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Fatbus,
By what I understand,the Cnpl will reflect on your payslip simply as 'Cnpl' with an amount deducted from your salary.Similarly it will reflect on your roster.However the other 0.65 day paycut will probably reflect in your payslip either seperately or in conjugation with the other one day cnpl.Therefore you may have a total paycut of 1.65 days on your payslip.But,the other 0.65 day off will not reflect on your roster since you CAN be utilised on that day for purpose of flying duties.That's my understanding of this paysut buisness.
@Boeinggream,
I reckon BD that the managment would be quite Ok with this arrangement.Having said that,the Alps-s has done quite a reasonable job too.Not to forget that the mediator in all of this was the MOM. And the MOM is always slightly inclined and more sensitive to the needs of the worker rather than the company.And I do mean slightly only.In the words of the Prime Minister himself,every company must keep layoffs and retrenchments AS THE LAST RESORT.And SIA as a company has complied quite wilfully.Job well done by BOTH parties! No two ways about that
.
The flip side of the coin would have been EXTREMELY distasteful for both sides.Management loses extremely experienced expats who they probably have just hired and who are still bonded.Whilst simultaneously spreading a very very ill word and ill repute in regards to the company throughout the pilot community worldwide.Not to mention the headhunters and agencies involved(if at all).And NO COMPANY wants that, or can survive that.Because at some time or another every company needs expats to run and assist with the show.And SIA as a company has always chosen the best of the lot from the market.So this 'arrangement' with Alps-s had diverted a whole WHOLE lot of bad publicity for SIA.And most press reports worldwide are indicative of just that.It's been taken as a huge plus and a feather in the cap of the management.
As far as the pilot is concerned,I think the implications of this agreement are obvious.Like I said earlier,we are now seen as "the guys who chipped in when times were bad".And why not.We SHOULD chip into the company coffers. WHATSOEVER we can. Howsoever insignificant our personal contributions might seem,the end result is always an uncomoflaged large number.And then,you also have the goodwill to go with it.Just do your bit please and leave the rest to the laws of the universe.It shall and will come back to you.With interest!
Notwithstanding the fact that now you are seen as a team player.Which is ever so important in the larger scheme of things.Isn't it...
Good job done.....both the Management AND Alpa-s.Keep up this comraderie.Remember, one minus one is ALWAYS zero.But one plus one can be eleven.And in most cases it WILL be eleven.Work on that,so that our next generations of pilots can look back upon us and say,"Hey....look what our previous generation left for us.Two banks of the same river which work together in keeping the strong current of the river within themselves.Rather than working against one another and allowing the waters to overflow the banks and causing destruction".
Well,I don't know about you,but that's how I wish to be remembered when I retire.
Thanks.
By what I understand,the Cnpl will reflect on your payslip simply as 'Cnpl' with an amount deducted from your salary.Similarly it will reflect on your roster.However the other 0.65 day paycut will probably reflect in your payslip either seperately or in conjugation with the other one day cnpl.Therefore you may have a total paycut of 1.65 days on your payslip.But,the other 0.65 day off will not reflect on your roster since you CAN be utilised on that day for purpose of flying duties.That's my understanding of this paysut buisness.
@Boeinggream,
I reckon BD that the managment would be quite Ok with this arrangement.Having said that,the Alps-s has done quite a reasonable job too.Not to forget that the mediator in all of this was the MOM. And the MOM is always slightly inclined and more sensitive to the needs of the worker rather than the company.And I do mean slightly only.In the words of the Prime Minister himself,every company must keep layoffs and retrenchments AS THE LAST RESORT.And SIA as a company has complied quite wilfully.Job well done by BOTH parties! No two ways about that
.The flip side of the coin would have been EXTREMELY distasteful for both sides.Management loses extremely experienced expats who they probably have just hired and who are still bonded.Whilst simultaneously spreading a very very ill word and ill repute in regards to the company throughout the pilot community worldwide.Not to mention the headhunters and agencies involved(if at all).And NO COMPANY wants that, or can survive that.Because at some time or another every company needs expats to run and assist with the show.And SIA as a company has always chosen the best of the lot from the market.So this 'arrangement' with Alps-s had diverted a whole WHOLE lot of bad publicity for SIA.And most press reports worldwide are indicative of just that.It's been taken as a huge plus and a feather in the cap of the management.
As far as the pilot is concerned,I think the implications of this agreement are obvious.Like I said earlier,we are now seen as "the guys who chipped in when times were bad".And why not.We SHOULD chip into the company coffers. WHATSOEVER we can. Howsoever insignificant our personal contributions might seem,the end result is always an uncomoflaged large number.And then,you also have the goodwill to go with it.Just do your bit please and leave the rest to the laws of the universe.It shall and will come back to you.With interest!
Notwithstanding the fact that now you are seen as a team player.Which is ever so important in the larger scheme of things.Isn't it...
Good job done.....both the Management AND Alpa-s.Keep up this comraderie.Remember, one minus one is ALWAYS zero.But one plus one can be eleven.And in most cases it WILL be eleven.Work on that,so that our next generations of pilots can look back upon us and say,"Hey....look what our previous generation left for us.Two banks of the same river which work together in keeping the strong current of the river within themselves.Rather than working against one another and allowing the waters to overflow the banks and causing destruction".
Well,I don't know about you,but that's how I wish to be remembered when I retire.
Thanks.
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Parabellum,
Sadly.....no.
Very unfortunately,i guess,as in every large company when push comes to shove,there always are some casualties.And those whose contracts were up for renewals at that point and time(for that matter even today)just happened to become the casualties of the moment.However,even though it did seen like ripping a pound of flesh from their body(in managment's own words),the 'non renewals' were NOT taken to be retrenchments.Merely a paragraph in their contract which was quite clear to the expats on joining itself.All contracts are subject to scruitiny and an assessment at the end of the term.No auto renewals(at least SO FAR with Sia).
That said,I hear that this contract non renewal is supposed to be for this calander year only.Of course that too is subject to change given the current state of the universe.Albeit improving very very surely though slightly slowly! Cause once let go,an expat isn't likely to join up back with the same company in the near future.
Although I did hear that most(if not all)of the one's released by Sia did get employment with a ME carrier.Something tells me that this 'airline transfer' of pilots too had something to do with the two respective governments.A neat arrangement if I may say so myself!
Sadly.....no.
Very unfortunately,i guess,as in every large company when push comes to shove,there always are some casualties.And those whose contracts were up for renewals at that point and time(for that matter even today)just happened to become the casualties of the moment.However,even though it did seen like ripping a pound of flesh from their body(in managment's own words),the 'non renewals' were NOT taken to be retrenchments.Merely a paragraph in their contract which was quite clear to the expats on joining itself.All contracts are subject to scruitiny and an assessment at the end of the term.No auto renewals(at least SO FAR with Sia).
That said,I hear that this contract non renewal is supposed to be for this calander year only.Of course that too is subject to change given the current state of the universe.Albeit improving very very surely though slightly slowly! Cause once let go,an expat isn't likely to join up back with the same company in the near future.
Although I did hear that most(if not all)of the one's released by Sia did get employment with a ME carrier.Something tells me that this 'airline transfer' of pilots too had something to do with the two respective governments.A neat arrangement if I may say so myself!
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Parabellum,
The answer is no (Well, at least mine's not renewed). Flight Ops has made it clear that non-renewal is NOT retrenchment. Can't pick on that, as they are indeed politically correct.
On the other hand, from what I was told by another double crew local skipper; apparently HR does not wanna commit on no retrenchment clause. All they said was it's best effort basis. So go figure it yourself.
As for rosters discrepancies, through my short span of service here, I have to say it all depends on who you talk to. Arrogant Captain (expat or local), usually loves to brag about him being rostered to typhoon affected areas, along with the "burden" of inexperienced FO all of the time. And that when it's Cat 2 & 3 low vis season, he'd then be "required" to head to Europe. I normally just quietly laugh it off. I know personally that couple of my friends (expats) have got rosters that the locals WILL kill if they ever found out the trips they had. My roster, so far, I can't complain since line Captain doesn't do too many turnarounds. I'm happy to serve up to 3 turns without much frowning. Most of the time, I'm on 4-8days COP. Best evidence, I find, is to verify randomly an expat roster against a local by checking our wonderful buddy roster program.
The answer is no (Well, at least mine's not renewed). Flight Ops has made it clear that non-renewal is NOT retrenchment. Can't pick on that, as they are indeed politically correct.
On the other hand, from what I was told by another double crew local skipper; apparently HR does not wanna commit on no retrenchment clause. All they said was it's best effort basis. So go figure it yourself.
As for rosters discrepancies, through my short span of service here, I have to say it all depends on who you talk to. Arrogant Captain (expat or local), usually loves to brag about him being rostered to typhoon affected areas, along with the "burden" of inexperienced FO all of the time. And that when it's Cat 2 & 3 low vis season, he'd then be "required" to head to Europe. I normally just quietly laugh it off. I know personally that couple of my friends (expats) have got rosters that the locals WILL kill if they ever found out the trips they had. My roster, so far, I can't complain since line Captain doesn't do too many turnarounds. I'm happy to serve up to 3 turns without much frowning. Most of the time, I'm on 4-8days COP. Best evidence, I find, is to verify randomly an expat roster against a local by checking our wonderful buddy roster program.
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@ KOAW,
"No auto renewals(at least SO FAR with Sia)."
I hear this is in for some serious re-strategizing on part of the managment.They apparently want to retain experienced hands(those who are worth it ofcourse)for as long as possible after this downturn.Could it be true.Hope they do away with this 'contract' buisness for good.It prevents the expat from having the crucial feeling of belonging.Which in turn affects loyalty,and that in turn affects company profits!
Just some food for thought.
"No auto renewals(at least SO FAR with Sia)."
I hear this is in for some serious re-strategizing on part of the managment.They apparently want to retain experienced hands(those who are worth it ofcourse)for as long as possible after this downturn.Could it be true.Hope they do away with this 'contract' buisness for good.It prevents the expat from having the crucial feeling of belonging.Which in turn affects loyalty,and that in turn affects company profits!
Just some food for thought.
Last edited by boeingdream787; 26th Jun 2009 at 12:53.
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expat captains in SIA
Heard yesterday that the expat captains on the 74 have been warned that they will not be retrained when the megatop fleet closes in january---- guess that is not retrenchment either as I believe it is covered in the contract
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boeingdream787,
"do away with this 'contract' buisness"
So you're suggesting that everyone goes on 'local terms' and hence full employment and no 'extra' allowances?
Yes you're right, expats will definitely have the feeling of belonging and it will affect company profits.
"do away with this 'contract' buisness"
So you're suggesting that everyone goes on 'local terms' and hence full employment and no 'extra' allowances?
Yes you're right, expats will definitely have the feeling of belonging and it will affect company profits.
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"So you're suggesting that everyone goes on 'local terms' and hence full employment and no 'extra' allowances?"
Wont work. Quite a few have tried, so far, their "phase 1" plan is to "purge" with non renewal for at least this year. Next phase, I think very like they will offer new recruit something close to local terms. But you can forget the provident funds (CPF) for sure.
Wont work. Quite a few have tried, so far, their "phase 1" plan is to "purge" with non renewal for at least this year. Next phase, I think very like they will offer new recruit something close to local terms. But you can forget the provident funds (CPF) for sure.
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Local terms...
The fact is: "Foreign pilots working on local terms in Singapore, unless they are Permanent Residents, are payed less then local pilots"...
Last edited by Brave heart; 2nd Jul 2009 at 05:52.