Spicejet--Indian ATPL holders needed
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Spicejet--Indian ATPL holders needed
Spicejet is currently recruiting again. We need the following per the EVP of Flight ops. Immediate need is around 24-25 Capts. Recalling those who were not needed earlier (most of them anyway).
1. Indian ATPL holders with flying experience in India as well as time in either B737, A320, ATR, CRJ etc. Qualified applicants will be considered for accelerated command (min time 500 hr RHS/6 months). Military fixed wing with ATPL and good experience also welcome.
2. Expats--Ongoing for current qualified B737NG. Age 60 + is ok. Keep in mind that DCGA officially wants expats out by 2010. Not sure if that will happen.
1. Indian ATPL holders with flying experience in India as well as time in either B737, A320, ATR, CRJ etc. Qualified applicants will be considered for accelerated command (min time 500 hr RHS/6 months). Military fixed wing with ATPL and good experience also welcome.
2. Expats--Ongoing for current qualified B737NG. Age 60 + is ok. Keep in mind that DCGA officially wants expats out by 2010. Not sure if that will happen.
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Interesting reading this.
The unions and the DGCA can't wait to get rid of the expats but you are short on Captains. How you going to man aircraft with no Captains? Leave them on the ground or fly them with 2 f/o's?
The unions and the DGCA can't wait to get rid of the expats but you are short on Captains. How you going to man aircraft with no Captains? Leave them on the ground or fly them with 2 f/o's?
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This is funny 'cos there are guys IN SpiceJet with ALTP's but they are left on the wayside and now they are recruiting guys from outside with the same requirements?
How about growing from within and filling in the holes through external recruiting.
Seems like joining Spice as an FO is a career stunting move.
How about growing from within and filling in the holes through external recruiting.
Seems like joining Spice as an FO is a career stunting move.
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The hiring is two-fold. While expats continue to be hired, the airline has also started the process of command upgrade of all Indian F/O's once they meet the flight time requirements and have their Indian ATPL. A class of 10 or so starts next week. Some of the F/O's have the time but not the Indian ATPL. The DGCA is not currently approving FATA's for them I'm told.
The upgrade candidates will go through ground school, then a sim check before proceeding further. Needless to say, not all will succeed. But in keeping with the DGCA mandate, all WILL be given an opportunity. So the notion that F/O position at Spicejet is a deadend job is not valid. Not too many places where at 2500 hrs you get a chance to upgrade.
Folks, this thread was posted to inform those interested in Spicejet. I am an expat line Capt at Spicejet (been here since early 2007). I am simply reporting what is currently happening at the airline. I am not involved in any hiring decisions or strategic planning. Don't shoot the messenger!
Expats apply to [email protected]. Requirement is B737NG type, current and qualified with high TT and PIC in A/C. DGCA is getting strict with
entry requirements.
Best wishes.
The upgrade candidates will go through ground school, then a sim check before proceeding further. Needless to say, not all will succeed. But in keeping with the DGCA mandate, all WILL be given an opportunity. So the notion that F/O position at Spicejet is a deadend job is not valid. Not too many places where at 2500 hrs you get a chance to upgrade.
Folks, this thread was posted to inform those interested in Spicejet. I am an expat line Capt at Spicejet (been here since early 2007). I am simply reporting what is currently happening at the airline. I am not involved in any hiring decisions or strategic planning. Don't shoot the messenger!
Expats apply to [email protected]. Requirement is B737NG type, current and qualified with high TT and PIC in A/C. DGCA is getting strict with
entry requirements.
Best wishes.
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2500 hour wonders
With 2500 hour behind their seatbelts, Spicejet is going to place their passengers in even more dicey positions than the pair of wrong landings over the last few years, and that's a simple fact. Maybe they should start a cargo airline too, where these newbies can pick up some experience, before letting them lose on passenger schedules?
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same old s***
when will we stop cribbing about giving command to F/O's with 2500 hrs...can we compare ( like for like ) our safety records with other countries who have a higher requirement..
there are strict requirements w.r.t operating in two monsoons, a suitability check/interview,sim program followed by route checks/company release check...the whole hog...no AIRLINE chief pilot/tre/tri will release you if dont make the grade...ofcourse there will be some sharp ones and some who'll take longer...overall our upgrade reqts are as safe and stringent as anywhere else...so I feel...unless proved otherwise by hard facts
but till then enough of these insinuations about upgrades being handed over on a platter to anyone with an ATPL...thats not the case!!!
there are strict requirements w.r.t operating in two monsoons, a suitability check/interview,sim program followed by route checks/company release check...the whole hog...no AIRLINE chief pilot/tre/tri will release you if dont make the grade...ofcourse there will be some sharp ones and some who'll take longer...overall our upgrade reqts are as safe and stringent as anywhere else...so I feel...unless proved otherwise by hard facts
but till then enough of these insinuations about upgrades being handed over on a platter to anyone with an ATPL...thats not the case!!!
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Glad to be of help Niss, PM me if you need furher details. As far as the wrong runway landings, it had little to do with low time F/O's as such. 2 of the wrong rwy were with highly experienced expat Capts, and 1 was with a highly experienced Indian Capt.The expat Capts involved are no longer here. Not judging anyone. It was unfortunate for the individuals and the airline.
Last edited by Nevrekar; 23rd Jan 2009 at 08:40.
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This is funny 'cos there are guys IN SpiceJet with ALTP's but they are left on the wayside
).The latest (from the AvIndia blog) is that DGCA is going to make the FATA written harder - more operation specific. Combine that with the difficulty expats have been having getting visas and you'll have airlines upgrading every Indian national they can, at least when the recovery starts. If you think you've been passed over, get into the office and find out why - if you can face the truth.
And yeah - don't shoot the messenger!
Thanks, allready got a reply from Jack.
I got +TT12.000 and +3000PIC NG TRI, looking for job.
Niss
I got +TT12.000 and +3000PIC NG TRI, looking for job.
Niss
Last edited by Rotorhead1026; 23rd Jan 2009 at 12:47.
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Someone tell me that its a joke that wonders with 2500 hrs are getting command in India.
If its true, its no wonder airlines in India are being downgraded to CAT 2 status.
If its true, its no wonder airlines in India are being downgraded to CAT 2 status.
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My understanding is that the CAT 2 downgrade has more to do with overall DGCA oversight and monitoring rather than pilot recruitment and training.
It is rather strange that the DGCA/Govt is able to dictate employment terms and issues. For example DGCA has ruled that one cannot leave an Indian carrier for another Indian one without 6 months notice or a No objection certificate. Now the Govt wants to make monitor upgrades of all Indian pilots because so many people took out loans for flight training and are now unemployed. The push for getting rid of expats is a political one fueled by the fact that 5,000 odd (some very middle-class) families mortgaged everything for their kids to go to flight school for the big meal ticket. Some F/O's with 300 odd hrs are making close to 4-5K USD/month. In many cases they are making more money at 21 than their parents ever dreamt of making. A minority of them don't even have an interest in aviation. It was pursued purely for financial returns. Now that there are no jobs, it's causing a lot of heartburn. Many simply bought into the pilot shortage, without looking into the true numbers with realistic expectations. And unfortunately, there is no second tier (freight, commuter, charter, instructing) flying that is significant in India.
The expat pilot will be in India only as the demand/supply exists. At Spicejet we have around 50 odd expats. There are a combination of retired (60 plus) guys as well as recently furloughed pilots from other airlines. We know that our time here is a stop-gap. We don't begrudge anyone their right to upgrade.
At the end of it all, we will eventually no longer be part of the landscape.
Hopefully by then India will have plenty of trained and qualified, experienced pilots to do the job and do it well. But if terms and conditions here get worse folks will start leaving India for the ME etc. Indian Capts can double their income in the ME by virtue of no tax. Some here have already started. Then the cycle will start again.
Republic Day Greetings from India--JAI HIND
It is rather strange that the DGCA/Govt is able to dictate employment terms and issues. For example DGCA has ruled that one cannot leave an Indian carrier for another Indian one without 6 months notice or a No objection certificate. Now the Govt wants to make monitor upgrades of all Indian pilots because so many people took out loans for flight training and are now unemployed. The push for getting rid of expats is a political one fueled by the fact that 5,000 odd (some very middle-class) families mortgaged everything for their kids to go to flight school for the big meal ticket. Some F/O's with 300 odd hrs are making close to 4-5K USD/month. In many cases they are making more money at 21 than their parents ever dreamt of making. A minority of them don't even have an interest in aviation. It was pursued purely for financial returns. Now that there are no jobs, it's causing a lot of heartburn. Many simply bought into the pilot shortage, without looking into the true numbers with realistic expectations. And unfortunately, there is no second tier (freight, commuter, charter, instructing) flying that is significant in India.
The expat pilot will be in India only as the demand/supply exists. At Spicejet we have around 50 odd expats. There are a combination of retired (60 plus) guys as well as recently furloughed pilots from other airlines. We know that our time here is a stop-gap. We don't begrudge anyone their right to upgrade.
At the end of it all, we will eventually no longer be part of the landscape.
Hopefully by then India will have plenty of trained and qualified, experienced pilots to do the job and do it well. But if terms and conditions here get worse folks will start leaving India for the ME etc. Indian Capts can double their income in the ME by virtue of no tax. Some here have already started. Then the cycle will start again.
Republic Day Greetings from India--JAI HIND
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when will we stop cribbing about giving command to F/O's with 2500 hrs.......... agree 110%....
the worlds air forces have been doing it..the MPL program is changing the game....so pls pls pls stop crying .....only quality training will create good capts.... 2500 hrs or 50000 hrs...does not matter....
the worlds air forces have been doing it..the MPL program is changing the game....so pls pls pls stop crying .....only quality training will create good capts.... 2500 hrs or 50000 hrs...does not matter....
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by your reasoning left wing, why 2500 hrs, why not... 1000
or lets make it 500 so little boys can play with their toys.
there are proven methods and margins being imposed worldwide on matters concerning aviation, a serious business.
when political, commercial, egotistic, or other forms of pressure are applied to furthur ones( airlines, or individuals) agenda, then the regulator has to make a decision.
successful command is as much a question of skill and training, but most important, MATURITY. some with 15000 hrs should not be left alone in a cockpit.
any system of selection/training has to cater for its weakest individual.
hence there are proven guidelines worldwide, which should not be diluted by
nationalistic or commercial arguments, let alone who your father is or the size of your bank loan.
or lets make it 500 so little boys can play with their toys.
there are proven methods and margins being imposed worldwide on matters concerning aviation, a serious business.
when political, commercial, egotistic, or other forms of pressure are applied to furthur ones( airlines, or individuals) agenda, then the regulator has to make a decision.
successful command is as much a question of skill and training, but most important, MATURITY. some with 15000 hrs should not be left alone in a cockpit.
any system of selection/training has to cater for its weakest individual.
hence there are proven guidelines worldwide, which should not be diluted by
nationalistic or commercial arguments, let alone who your father is or the size of your bank loan.
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Left Wing
"...the worlds air forces have been doing it.."
Agreed!! However you are forgetting a very important point. Front line military crews, in particular, are EXPENDABLE!!!! The plane load of innocent pax are not!!! Or are they?
Like it or not there is no real substitute for experience. It is conceivable to me that aircraft will be flying around Indian skies and further afield with a crew, that has a total hour count of less the 3000 in the not too distant future.
There are several Nations that let Nationalistic pride come before safety considerations. France and Spain come to mind.
"...the worlds air forces have been doing it.."
Agreed!! However you are forgetting a very important point. Front line military crews, in particular, are EXPENDABLE!!!! The plane load of innocent pax are not!!! Or are they?
Like it or not there is no real substitute for experience. It is conceivable to me that aircraft will be flying around Indian skies and further afield with a crew, that has a total hour count of less the 3000 in the not too distant future.
There are several Nations that let Nationalistic pride come before safety considerations. France and Spain come to mind.
Last edited by weido_salt; 24th Jan 2009 at 07:53.
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No Air Force will ever say that their crews are expendable during peace time. During war,it is a different matter.But it has been proven that young guys make good pilots and are capable of handling and commanding equipment worth millions of dollars in scenarios that a civilian pilot cannot even imagine and at experience levels the civilians cannot comprehend.
Flying airliners these days has very little to do with skill and everything to do with maturity and judgement. Sitting in the right seat for 10 years does not a mature pilot make. Also, it is impossible to measure maturity and judgement.Thus far the standard has been total time.That standard is arbitrary.When the harvest (pilots) is plentiful, airlines routinely hike up their TT requirements. When a famine is on the way they lower it.This has nothing to do with nationalism or the DGCA or the airlines. It is worldwide aviation economics 101.
Just my 2c.
Alt3
Flying airliners these days has very little to do with skill and everything to do with maturity and judgement. Sitting in the right seat for 10 years does not a mature pilot make. Also, it is impossible to measure maturity and judgement.Thus far the standard has been total time.That standard is arbitrary.When the harvest (pilots) is plentiful, airlines routinely hike up their TT requirements. When a famine is on the way they lower it.This has nothing to do with nationalism or the DGCA or the airlines. It is worldwide aviation economics 101.
Just my 2c.
Alt3
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Agent 123:
Fair enough. In all the events you mentioned, exceptional skill saved the day.However, as you correctly state, all the training from student to ATP is about dealing with the unexpected.My premise is that many of the "2500 hour wonders" can be trained and monitored to perfrom just as well as a 25000 hour wonder. The armed forces of the world are proof of that. Good training should weed out the ones with poor skills from the beginning. Good judgement and maturity, on the other hand, cannot be measured or quantified.It would be false to assume that a fat logbook automatically confers good command abilities on anyone.
Sorry for the drift from the original thread.
Alt3.
Fair enough. In all the events you mentioned, exceptional skill saved the day.However, as you correctly state, all the training from student to ATP is about dealing with the unexpected.My premise is that many of the "2500 hour wonders" can be trained and monitored to perfrom just as well as a 25000 hour wonder. The armed forces of the world are proof of that. Good training should weed out the ones with poor skills from the beginning. Good judgement and maturity, on the other hand, cannot be measured or quantified.It would be false to assume that a fat logbook automatically confers good command abilities on anyone.
Sorry for the drift from the original thread.
Alt3.
