Singapore Airline's employment of Russian and Indian pilots
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Singapore Airline's employment of Russian and Indian pilots
A few years ago Singapore Airlines looked into employing Russian and Indian pilots, for SIA and Silkair.
Does anyone know what happened to this program?
I believe some Russians made it as far as the simulator.
Does anyone know what happened to this program?
I believe some Russians made it as far as the simulator.
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It's not only SQ, titan. We are now working in a "Global Village" [what a load of cr@p], we're told, and management in many airlines take this to mean they'll employ the cheapest pilots they can get [to replace their current ones, either through attrition, or confrontation].
With training, most candidates can be brought to the minimum standard required by the licencing authorities, and the airline company concerned.
It's a simple fact, that some nationalities have a lower personal standard of living, than others, and will work for less money, rather than asking for the higher salary of their peers.
Without wanting to start a 'tit-for-tat', I know a certain group of expatriate F/O's who came to SIA, for much less than their then counterparts were receiving. Let's leave it at that, okay.
A quote from PPRuNe some 4 years or so ago...."pilots eat pilots.".
How sadly true!
With training, most candidates can be brought to the minimum standard required by the licencing authorities, and the airline company concerned.
It's a simple fact, that some nationalities have a lower personal standard of living, than others, and will work for less money, rather than asking for the higher salary of their peers.
Without wanting to start a 'tit-for-tat', I know a certain group of expatriate F/O's who came to SIA, for much less than their then counterparts were receiving. Let's leave it at that, okay.
A quote from PPRuNe some 4 years or so ago...."pilots eat pilots.".
How sadly true!
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I was curious as to whether the use of the Russian pilots was a backlash against the problems they were having with the American, Australian, Brits, etc(westerners). Were they chasing a "more compliant" pilot or was it simply because they were going to pay them less money. Surely having English as a natural language would be a big plus for an international airline i.e. Indians.
So, was there a masterplan, or was it just a case of knee jerk reaction to the resignations, or was it being used as a threat?
More importantly, what became of it.
Established, relax, Im not digging at anyone, just enquiring.
So, was there a masterplan, or was it just a case of knee jerk reaction to the resignations, or was it being used as a threat?
More importantly, what became of it.
Established, relax, Im not digging at anyone, just enquiring.
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Dear fellow pilots,
Please allow me to speak out my personal point of view though I may be wrong. Singapore Airlines has always prefer and taking expat pilots since day one though minority of the Singaporean made it to the flight deck. The problem is there is this bunch of senior Malaysian or ex-Malaysian pilots who joined SQ in the early days and most of them are holding management position and are very senior.When comes to selecting of cadet pilots,this bunch of people will delibrately select their own people which is the Malaysian Chinese in collaborate with the Singapore Government policy to recruit the Malaysian Chinese from Malaysia to become Singaporean by giving them jobs and citizenship later.SQ will fully sponsor the new expat pilots for ab-intial pilot training in London,give them their type rating on the Boeing or Airbus,force them to take up citizenship when they reached time as Captain.What happen is, these pilots now whom are ready for command refused to give up their Malaysian citizenship in lieu for the promotion went back to serve MAS or other Airlines leaving a serious shortage of commanders for Singapore Airlines.That is why today SQ has to grab anything that they can get hold of to fly their aircraft because of their policy of not taking and training their own nationals in the early days.Anyway,to my knowledge,there are more than 100 self-sponsored Singaporean pilots who went for their ATPL/CPL training in US,UK,Malaysia,Australia,New Zeland and other part of the world are not able to get a job with SQ or SilkAir.These pilots spent their families live saving,borrow money from banks and a few even killed themselves in air accident just wish to serve their own national airlines.In exception,unless you have good connection in SQ or you are an ex-
air force pilot then you will get a chance to fly for Singapore Airlines.There is a saying in local Singaporean SQ wannabe: give up your Singapore citizenship,become a Malaysian, apply for SQ then become Singaporean!
I would like you guys to know that the local SQ wannabe are not racist or dislike other nationals to fly for them,is just that why are the local Singaporean are not given a chance to be trained and serve their national airlines?
[This message has been edited by joblessflyer (edited 31 July 2000).]
Please allow me to speak out my personal point of view though I may be wrong. Singapore Airlines has always prefer and taking expat pilots since day one though minority of the Singaporean made it to the flight deck. The problem is there is this bunch of senior Malaysian or ex-Malaysian pilots who joined SQ in the early days and most of them are holding management position and are very senior.When comes to selecting of cadet pilots,this bunch of people will delibrately select their own people which is the Malaysian Chinese in collaborate with the Singapore Government policy to recruit the Malaysian Chinese from Malaysia to become Singaporean by giving them jobs and citizenship later.SQ will fully sponsor the new expat pilots for ab-intial pilot training in London,give them their type rating on the Boeing or Airbus,force them to take up citizenship when they reached time as Captain.What happen is, these pilots now whom are ready for command refused to give up their Malaysian citizenship in lieu for the promotion went back to serve MAS or other Airlines leaving a serious shortage of commanders for Singapore Airlines.That is why today SQ has to grab anything that they can get hold of to fly their aircraft because of their policy of not taking and training their own nationals in the early days.Anyway,to my knowledge,there are more than 100 self-sponsored Singaporean pilots who went for their ATPL/CPL training in US,UK,Malaysia,Australia,New Zeland and other part of the world are not able to get a job with SQ or SilkAir.These pilots spent their families live saving,borrow money from banks and a few even killed themselves in air accident just wish to serve their own national airlines.In exception,unless you have good connection in SQ or you are an ex-
air force pilot then you will get a chance to fly for Singapore Airlines.There is a saying in local Singaporean SQ wannabe: give up your Singapore citizenship,become a Malaysian, apply for SQ then become Singaporean!
I would like you guys to know that the local SQ wannabe are not racist or dislike other nationals to fly for them,is just that why are the local Singaporean are not given a chance to be trained and serve their national airlines?
[This message has been edited by joblessflyer (edited 31 July 2000).]
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Gladys - identifying Ppruners! Muk Tuk no good!
Riddle you this. Happiness is a warm 727. (Sorry Guv)
Tits,
There is no hidden agenda Mate. As "M" has said,everyone has a price and can be bought for that price. Now SQ is a business,a very profitable business,and has a duty to shareholders to remain so. I don't think Established implied you were digging at anyone,he was merely asking a question.
I would ask the same question - DO You ?
Riddle you this. Happiness is a warm 727. (Sorry Guv)
Tits,
There is no hidden agenda Mate. As "M" has said,everyone has a price and can be bought for that price. Now SQ is a business,a very profitable business,and has a duty to shareholders to remain so. I don't think Established implied you were digging at anyone,he was merely asking a question.
I would ask the same question - DO You ?
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JoblessFlyer, I honestly feel sorry for you. What seems to be missing with so many of the local SIA pilots is their love of flying. You simply dont see people parked by the road near the runway watching planes come and go, and the little kids with mouths agape in awe pushing their faces up against the chain-link fence. Schipol on a Sunday was great for that.
Such a pity that people like you who made the committment and followed your dream are then passed over for being too "aggressive". Maybe this relates back to their "compliant" pilot needs.
Sadly, most of the prefered Singaporean pilots were ex-military and seem to show a leaning towards a love of power rather than flying.
Whiskery & Established:
I take people as they come and judge them only on one trait: INTEGRITY. This is a trait I found lacking in so much of the Singaporean psyche. Of course I found jewels, but they invariably got rolled by the underhanded game of Kiasu politics that corrupts their systems. The 3 camps in SIA Flight Ops can offer no finer example.
Its a dog eat dog world out there - well it was until the hawker centres came along, anyway!
Such a pity that people like you who made the committment and followed your dream are then passed over for being too "aggressive". Maybe this relates back to their "compliant" pilot needs.
Sadly, most of the prefered Singaporean pilots were ex-military and seem to show a leaning towards a love of power rather than flying.
Whiskery & Established:
I take people as they come and judge them only on one trait: INTEGRITY. This is a trait I found lacking in so much of the Singaporean psyche. Of course I found jewels, but they invariably got rolled by the underhanded game of Kiasu politics that corrupts their systems. The 3 camps in SIA Flight Ops can offer no finer example.
Its a dog eat dog world out there - well it was until the hawker centres came along, anyway!
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Forget dog eat dog, what about all of us on this thread? No sooner has Tits,Kaptin M,Whiskery or Slasher(not forgetting the indomitable Gladys) does some posting then it's all hands to the pump to douse the flames. Look,boys try to get a handle on yourselves and Tits,I know what you're saying and where you're coming from but let's not start a tit for tat everytime the keyboard gets cranked up! 
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If all else fails then,funk it!
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If all else fails then,funk it!
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Slasher, I understand what you say. I was channelled to "KFC" for extra special treatment.
Funny little incident happened in Nagoya. Here is this mean nasty litle man walking down the street, and he actually asked the engineer and myself to walk on either side of him to stop people coming near him, then as we walk along he starts telling us about how terrified he is of the dentist. It was so hard not to laugh at such a pathetic creature.
The Singapore system created this man, and SIA empowered him.
But anyhow, back to the subject........
Funny little incident happened in Nagoya. Here is this mean nasty litle man walking down the street, and he actually asked the engineer and myself to walk on either side of him to stop people coming near him, then as we walk along he starts telling us about how terrified he is of the dentist. It was so hard not to laugh at such a pathetic creature.
The Singapore system created this man, and SIA empowered him.
But anyhow, back to the subject........
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Slasher - he was a particularly nasty piece of work. Remember the Barry/Berry incident,he didn't even have the aggetts to apologise! I would not let the likes of him turn me off flying,I wouldn't give him the satisfaction!
Titan - KFC as with FK (rymes with Oh!)suffered BIG time from the little man syndrome and lack of natural flying ability. The Singapore system did NOT create them, they were born like it!
Titan - KFC as with FK (rymes with Oh!)suffered BIG time from the little man syndrome and lack of natural flying ability. The Singapore system did NOT create them, they were born like it!
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Whos is KFC Titan? Are you talking about the little man that once got run over by a car (the car had APLA-S sticker on the windscreen)?
Or is it Kentucky Fried Chicken?
There were a few very nice chaps. On a double crew to LHR, the Captain (Singaporean)made up my bunk while I was out of the bunk (changed bed sheets and pillow covers). He did it out of pure niceness. The man was obviously happy at home.
In the ranks of management an example of a real nice person from the heart is G. Yeap.
Or is it Kentucky Fried Chicken?
There were a few very nice chaps. On a double crew to LHR, the Captain (Singaporean)made up my bunk while I was out of the bunk (changed bed sheets and pillow covers). He did it out of pure niceness. The man was obviously happy at home.
In the ranks of management an example of a real nice person from the heart is G. Yeap.
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Thats the nasty little man Gladiator.
Please don't get me wrong, as I have said numerous times before, I did meet some noble people. Victor and Dudley in Ops, Baldev and Gerry at ALPA-S, and a great training FO called JC who told SIA to stick their job and became a share trader instead.
Sadly, these people were like pearls on a beach.
[This message has been edited by titan (edited 02 August 2000).]
Please don't get me wrong, as I have said numerous times before, I did meet some noble people. Victor and Dudley in Ops, Baldev and Gerry at ALPA-S, and a great training FO called JC who told SIA to stick their job and became a share trader instead.
Sadly, these people were like pearls on a beach.
[This message has been edited by titan (edited 02 August 2000).]
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joblessflyer, from what you mentioned, it seems like there is really very slim hope for local guys to join SQ as cadet pilots. So what's the point of still advertising the position in our local papers when they actually prefer Malaysian chinese!! Would really make local guys lose heart in hearing this news. Guess tat's life.......huh!!
Sob!!
Sob!!
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joblessflyer and boeinglover, policies in Singapore are what I call, karoke lounge policies.
Much like the policies of the government of Singapore they are made at the spare of the moment without much thought or planning. I saw many examples in my six and a half years in Fort Singapura. Examples range from CPF policy to PR status for foreigners to many other aspects of daily life. I had to read the Strait Times to find out what they have cooked up next.
It is no secret that SIA only employs Chinese Malaysians. I saw only one Malay Malaysian at SIA. Discrimination also was evident regarding PR status. If you were Indian Malaysian as apposed to Chinese Malaysian. At one time no PR for caucasians (no PR, no property loan, no make money), a few years down the road after the property prices crashed, give the caucasians PR as fast as possible.
Whatever the motive of the policies be rest assured it is designed to exploit the individual. An Indian from India would be more satisfied at SIA since life in Singapore would be an upgrade. A Malaysian would appreciate the large difference in the exchange rate.
Even in the ranks of cabin crew it is no secret that SIA considers Malaysians better workers than Singaporeans. Many articles have appeared in the Straits Times regarding this topic. One story was how the Malaysian cabin crew are better than the Singaporean cabin crew at folding blankets. Another story told to me by an IFS while out station was about a new hire Singaporean cabin crew that had forgotten to bring her passport, her excuse was, "the maid did not pack my passport".
Do not discount the possibility of a flying job outside Singapore. Trust me, SIA is one of the worst employers in the airline industry. You will do the most work for the least amount of money. There are a lot of flying jobs available worldwide with better pay as well as working conditions. The key thing is if you really love flying, maintain focus and you will eventually get there.
Much like the policies of the government of Singapore they are made at the spare of the moment without much thought or planning. I saw many examples in my six and a half years in Fort Singapura. Examples range from CPF policy to PR status for foreigners to many other aspects of daily life. I had to read the Strait Times to find out what they have cooked up next.
It is no secret that SIA only employs Chinese Malaysians. I saw only one Malay Malaysian at SIA. Discrimination also was evident regarding PR status. If you were Indian Malaysian as apposed to Chinese Malaysian. At one time no PR for caucasians (no PR, no property loan, no make money), a few years down the road after the property prices crashed, give the caucasians PR as fast as possible.
Whatever the motive of the policies be rest assured it is designed to exploit the individual. An Indian from India would be more satisfied at SIA since life in Singapore would be an upgrade. A Malaysian would appreciate the large difference in the exchange rate.
Even in the ranks of cabin crew it is no secret that SIA considers Malaysians better workers than Singaporeans. Many articles have appeared in the Straits Times regarding this topic. One story was how the Malaysian cabin crew are better than the Singaporean cabin crew at folding blankets. Another story told to me by an IFS while out station was about a new hire Singaporean cabin crew that had forgotten to bring her passport, her excuse was, "the maid did not pack my passport".
Do not discount the possibility of a flying job outside Singapore. Trust me, SIA is one of the worst employers in the airline industry. You will do the most work for the least amount of money. There are a lot of flying jobs available worldwide with better pay as well as working conditions. The key thing is if you really love flying, maintain focus and you will eventually get there.
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Glad, it may seem that I'm "picking" on you - however, by your own admission, Singapore Airlines is the ONLY major airline for whom you have flown, and so your "..Trust me, SIA is one of the worst employers in the airline industry...." is not based on first hand experience [as you would, no doubt, wish many to believe], but, rather, a bitter'n'twisted experience in the real world.
As you have admitted yourself, you have returned to the same employer you had prior to SQ.....a little akin to running back to the security of Mummy's apron when the big boys decided to thump you, because you stuck your tongue out at them...isn't it??!!
As you have admitted yourself, you have returned to the same employer you had prior to SQ.....a little akin to running back to the security of Mummy's apron when the big boys decided to thump you, because you stuck your tongue out at them...isn't it??!!
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Gladiator: Could you please confirm your comments a while back that Singapore Airlines only hires Malaysian Chinese???
Please advise if you really do want to stick to this point of view because i think it may be seriously wrong. If it were true...there sure are a lot of Malaysian non-Chinese in phenomenal disguises in SIA pilot's uniforms out there. Please check your facts and advise.
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Please advise if you really do want to stick to this point of view because i think it may be seriously wrong. If it were true...there sure are a lot of Malaysian non-Chinese in phenomenal disguises in SIA pilot's uniforms out there. Please check your facts and advise.
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I know I tend to harp on about your English Glady; but really - you do shoot yourself in the foot.
Quote:
It is no secret that SIA only employs Chinese Malaysians. I saw only one Malay Malaysian at SIA. Discrimination also was evident regarding PR status. If you were Indian Malaysian as apposed to Chinese Malaysian. At one time no PR for caucasians
Now is it your contention that SIA only employ Chinese Malaysians, because you juxtapose that with direct contradictions. Incidentally, as CheersandBeers states, if SIA did only employ Chinese Malaysians, then the flight crew at the front end of my SIA flight were in incredibly good disguise as Europeans.
I note also that you get your stories from the Strait Times and gossip - so they're not really first-hand knowledge, but scuttlebutt you pick up.
In the interests of verity, it would be nice if you confirmed that what you state is fact actually is. That you, at least, read what you write before you press submit and ensure that it makes sense.
Quote:
It is no secret that SIA only employs Chinese Malaysians. I saw only one Malay Malaysian at SIA. Discrimination also was evident regarding PR status. If you were Indian Malaysian as apposed to Chinese Malaysian. At one time no PR for caucasians
Now is it your contention that SIA only employ Chinese Malaysians, because you juxtapose that with direct contradictions. Incidentally, as CheersandBeers states, if SIA did only employ Chinese Malaysians, then the flight crew at the front end of my SIA flight were in incredibly good disguise as Europeans.
I note also that you get your stories from the Strait Times and gossip - so they're not really first-hand knowledge, but scuttlebutt you pick up.
In the interests of verity, it would be nice if you confirmed that what you state is fact actually is. That you, at least, read what you write before you press submit and ensure that it makes sense.