Rishworth 777 contract
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Jet Airways 777 F/O as of 8/07 $6,600/$5,700 for 1,000 hours and 777 type-rated. $88/$77 per hour above 80 per month (all net), 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off based India or 9 days on, 8 days off foreign (ie EWR or BRU), 28 day annual leave (during which recurrent training is F/O responsibility, som e assistance provided by Jet), 10 days sick leave, furnished apartment in India or hotels if foreign-based plus some allowances, deadhead economy-class, no mention of per diem, 12 month freeze to jump to 777 in India with other carrier unless Jet approves. Lower salary and hourly for less than 1,000 hours but still 777 typed. Age to 65 OK.
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I have done quite a bit of overseas contract work while on various leaves from my airline over the years. Without a doubt, Rishworth is the worst contract company in aviation. I remember years bck when they offered me an ATR gig in India, Parc was offering nearly double what rishworth was for THE SAME CONTRACT.
Whenever I get Rishworth emails about contracts, I simply delete them never even bothering to open them up. In '03 I took another leave and flew for a M.E. company where I eventually became C.P. When I took over the pilot turnover was 100% for captains and 65% for F/Os. I eventually discovered the former CEO decided to apply the Rishworth doctrine to pilot compensation. I even came across one document from Rishworth where they suggested he (the CEO) hire Bulgarian, Russian or African pilots as they would be less "problematic" than Westerners (presumbly they meant Americans and Europeans). He failed so miserably at his job that every captain quit and no new captains (except me) would join.
I am amazed they Rishworth is still in business today. Keep in mind, when you work for any crew leasing company, THEY are YOUR agent and THEY are keeping 20-30% of your monthly salary. How can they possibly work for your best interests when they are also the agent of the hiring airline? The conflict of interest is obvious so expect to get shafted most of the time. That said, I would suggest PARC if you have to go with a crew-leasing company. They seem to take care of the pilots more than any other contract company out there.
You get what you pay for in life. Pilots must be well-compensated in order to be motivated to stay in a place other than their home. It costs entirely too much money in recruitment and training to mess with pilot pay, IMO. An airline gets much more value-added by properly compensating (this means paying the highest of the worldwide going rate for contract pilots on a specific equipment type) crews than by trying to nickel-and-dime them to the bitter end. How much money do you save by spending $50,000 to recruit and train (recruitment plus simulator costs) a skilled employee only to have him quit 3 months later because the conditions are so sub-standrd?
Whenever I get Rishworth emails about contracts, I simply delete them never even bothering to open them up. In '03 I took another leave and flew for a M.E. company where I eventually became C.P. When I took over the pilot turnover was 100% for captains and 65% for F/Os. I eventually discovered the former CEO decided to apply the Rishworth doctrine to pilot compensation. I even came across one document from Rishworth where they suggested he (the CEO) hire Bulgarian, Russian or African pilots as they would be less "problematic" than Westerners (presumbly they meant Americans and Europeans). He failed so miserably at his job that every captain quit and no new captains (except me) would join.
I am amazed they Rishworth is still in business today. Keep in mind, when you work for any crew leasing company, THEY are YOUR agent and THEY are keeping 20-30% of your monthly salary. How can they possibly work for your best interests when they are also the agent of the hiring airline? The conflict of interest is obvious so expect to get shafted most of the time. That said, I would suggest PARC if you have to go with a crew-leasing company. They seem to take care of the pilots more than any other contract company out there.
You get what you pay for in life. Pilots must be well-compensated in order to be motivated to stay in a place other than their home. It costs entirely too much money in recruitment and training to mess with pilot pay, IMO. An airline gets much more value-added by properly compensating (this means paying the highest of the worldwide going rate for contract pilots on a specific equipment type) crews than by trying to nickel-and-dime them to the bitter end. How much money do you save by spending $50,000 to recruit and train (recruitment plus simulator costs) a skilled employee only to have him quit 3 months later because the conditions are so sub-standrd?
oldboldpilot fired a PM through to me, which I gather has been sent to others also, asking my thoughts on what would make the contract more interesting.
To that end, I replied saying that the best contract doesn't necessarily have to be the highest paying one out there, if comparably, other areas of the contract make up for the short fall. i.e. in one sense, we all have our price, but equally money will not always make up for loss of lifestyle, which is what expats tend to do when moving away from their home environment.
Sadly, this contract does neither.
Regards Rishworth, this seems to be one company that I have never EVER read anything good about. I have had no direct dealings with them, but generally as any discusion includes both points of view, and it seems that this is one topic that continues to lack the other, it suggests that there is NO other side, so I shall be stearing clear of them.
To that end, I replied saying that the best contract doesn't necessarily have to be the highest paying one out there, if comparably, other areas of the contract make up for the short fall. i.e. in one sense, we all have our price, but equally money will not always make up for loss of lifestyle, which is what expats tend to do when moving away from their home environment.
Sadly, this contract does neither.
Regards Rishworth, this seems to be one company that I have never EVER read anything good about. I have had no direct dealings with them, but generally as any discusion includes both points of view, and it seems that this is one topic that continues to lack the other, it suggests that there is NO other side, so I shall be stearing clear of them.
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Mrs. Harpreet A De Singh
Addl. GM - QMS & TRG (O)
AIR INDIA LTD., OAP
SANTA CRUZ, MUMBAI 29
TEL +91 22 26263497
Hade Singh [[email protected]]
is the key person for accurate info ... and in ture AI fashion dont email call up on India time.
Addl. GM - QMS & TRG (O)
AIR INDIA LTD., OAP
SANTA CRUZ, MUMBAI 29
TEL +91 22 26263497
Hade Singh [[email protected]]
is the key person for accurate info ... and in ture AI fashion dont email call up on India time.
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Why are you all complaining?
Here a thought for all you that are complaining. Don't fly there. I am reading these posts that you guys won't ever fly there under those terms. Is anyone putting a gun to your heads and telling you to fly there. Stop complaining!!
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Air India manager's were at the Air Inc. Atlanta 2006 job fair looking for 737NG pilots for Air India Express. They were looking to hire direct back then. Had a pretty underwhelming response and were visibly disappointed.
TP
TP
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Hi!
These types of contracts are DEFINITELY sub-standard.
I know of a guy flying as a CRJ captain in India making over $100K, and they give him a free residence in base, pay for private Western school for his kids, and provide him with a car and driver 24/7 for him and his family.
Here's a comparison with a company I'm interested in, NetJets in the US.
You would be a new FO flying something between a BeechJet-Citation-Hawker-Gulfstream 200.
Your starting pay, which begins the first day of training, is about $75K USD.
They have 100 bases. They will call you the night before, and at least 10 hours before your tour starts as to when to report. They will have an airline ticket waiting for you in your base to fly you to your aircraft. When your tour is over, they airline you back to your base. If you wish to fly to another location (not your base) they will provide the ticket, it the cost is less, or charge you the difference between the ticket to your base, and the ticket to your requested destination. You can change your base every month, so you can live in the warm Southern states in the Winter, and the warm Northern states in the summer, if you desire.
Your starting schedule is 18 work days a month, with a maximum trip of 7 days. If you work 7 days, you then get 5 in a row off. If you work ANY number of days (1 or more) you get a minimum of 3 days off in a row. After completing training, you can switch to a 7 on/7 off schedule if you wish, which will pay $59K USD.
Your monthly payment for your family's health care, dental care, and vision care (glasses and contacts) is 0. NetJets pays for all of it. When you go to the doctor, you pay $20 per visit-that's it.
They have a 401K retirement plan. You are allowed to pay in a maximum of about $16K USD per year. The company will match up to 15% of your income (If you make $100K, and you contribute $15K per year, NetJets will also pay in $15K per year.). The 401K money is YOURS, to invest how you want, and to take with you whenever you leave.
cliff
KYIP
PS-I talked to a buddy of mine who Interviews with Emirates next month in Atlanta. He said they are contemplating opening N. American pilots bases, as they need to add and keep more pilots than they are now. He has NO widebody and NO oceanic experience, and they are interviewing him for a DEC -777 slot.
PPS-Hold out for Better Pay/Retirement/Benefits/Working Conditions!!!
These types of contracts are DEFINITELY sub-standard.
I know of a guy flying as a CRJ captain in India making over $100K, and they give him a free residence in base, pay for private Western school for his kids, and provide him with a car and driver 24/7 for him and his family.
Here's a comparison with a company I'm interested in, NetJets in the US.
You would be a new FO flying something between a BeechJet-Citation-Hawker-Gulfstream 200.
Your starting pay, which begins the first day of training, is about $75K USD.
They have 100 bases. They will call you the night before, and at least 10 hours before your tour starts as to when to report. They will have an airline ticket waiting for you in your base to fly you to your aircraft. When your tour is over, they airline you back to your base. If you wish to fly to another location (not your base) they will provide the ticket, it the cost is less, or charge you the difference between the ticket to your base, and the ticket to your requested destination. You can change your base every month, so you can live in the warm Southern states in the Winter, and the warm Northern states in the summer, if you desire.
Your starting schedule is 18 work days a month, with a maximum trip of 7 days. If you work 7 days, you then get 5 in a row off. If you work ANY number of days (1 or more) you get a minimum of 3 days off in a row. After completing training, you can switch to a 7 on/7 off schedule if you wish, which will pay $59K USD.
Your monthly payment for your family's health care, dental care, and vision care (glasses and contacts) is 0. NetJets pays for all of it. When you go to the doctor, you pay $20 per visit-that's it.
They have a 401K retirement plan. You are allowed to pay in a maximum of about $16K USD per year. The company will match up to 15% of your income (If you make $100K, and you contribute $15K per year, NetJets will also pay in $15K per year.). The 401K money is YOURS, to invest how you want, and to take with you whenever you leave.
cliff
KYIP
PS-I talked to a buddy of mine who Interviews with Emirates next month in Atlanta. He said they are contemplating opening N. American pilots bases, as they need to add and keep more pilots than they are now. He has NO widebody and NO oceanic experience, and they are interviewing him for a DEC -777 slot.
PPS-Hold out for Better Pay/Retirement/Benefits/Working Conditions!!!
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Are there any US/UK basing opportunities with AI? Also, I understand that thy pay in Pounds Sterling. Can anyone confirm that? One last item, I believe they have approached a certain aircraft mfg. here in the US about supplying crews for an indefinite period. Any information on that as well?
Thanks
Thanks
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Emirates N/A basing
atpcliff,
As a long term employee with Emirates from N/A I would advise you and anyone else who is thinking of coming to Emirates because you have been told there will be N/A basings to take it with a VERRY large grain of salt. The senior management of Emirates has stated time and time again that there will NEVER be basings (money earned in Dubai is meant to be spent there). This is a rumour/lie that is passed around to encourage joining EK with the hope of a basing in the near future. DO NOT make your decision based on this assumption especially if your using it as a sales pitch to the missus/mister.
As a long term employee with Emirates from N/A I would advise you and anyone else who is thinking of coming to Emirates because you have been told there will be N/A basings to take it with a VERRY large grain of salt. The senior management of Emirates has stated time and time again that there will NEVER be basings (money earned in Dubai is meant to be spent there). This is a rumour/lie that is passed around to encourage joining EK with the hope of a basing in the near future. DO NOT make your decision based on this assumption especially if your using it as a sales pitch to the missus/mister.
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Super efficient Flt-Ops.
One wonders what the AI managers were doing , ordering all these big shine expensive 777 and not thinking of hiring enough pilots to fly these aeroplanes. 3 of these aeroplanes on ground criminal & shameful. So much of tax payers money, down the drain.
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Foot in the door
Just read this entire b****ing session about this "dodgy" contract and who knows maybe your all right it could be a complete **** up but oh well kick it up the guts i reckon. Admittedly not the ideal situation if your a skip as there's gotta be plenty opportunities for people with your experience esp considering the current pilot situation. Also not ideal for those of you with mouths to feed and a whinging better half wanting you home more often and saying "i married you cause your a pilot and what the hell is this salary??"
But there's a few of us keen on this gig so we're off to India, i'll let you all know how it all pans out but if your like me and have just been on charter or small airlines then this is a pretty good opportunity to get your foot in the door of a 777 with out too many hassles. The salary isn't that bad for a starting F/O and if you want hours on type then who gives a s*** about the monthly hrs. Been doing more than that and i was in a probably equally ****ty place so just gotta roll up the sleeves and get stuck in. Anyway its only 18 months so if its no good then let it go.
Tho i'm not speaking from any sort of experience with Rishworth they've been pretty helpful so far so we'll see.
OBP posted the contract details almost to the word so if your interested have a look at that post.
But there's a few of us keen on this gig so we're off to India, i'll let you all know how it all pans out but if your like me and have just been on charter or small airlines then this is a pretty good opportunity to get your foot in the door of a 777 with out too many hassles. The salary isn't that bad for a starting F/O and if you want hours on type then who gives a s*** about the monthly hrs. Been doing more than that and i was in a probably equally ****ty place so just gotta roll up the sleeves and get stuck in. Anyway its only 18 months so if its no good then let it go.
Tho i'm not speaking from any sort of experience with Rishworth they've been pretty helpful so far so we'll see.
OBP posted the contract details almost to the word so if your interested have a look at that post.
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New Contract Coming?
According to Rishworth, they are significantly changing the 777 Air India contract...does anyone have any information...one rumor is basing out of India (Europe or North America). FYI, Alteon/Boeing looking for 777 and 767 pilots to train as contract simulator instructors...30 days on/off...roundtrip air and all expenses paid....$500USD per day plus $80 per diem..no age limit....www.alteontraining.com is website, click careers, select simulator/operations (worldwide) then select job link at very bottom, 747-400, 777, 767, etc. based in Renton. This appears to be a great commuting opportunity.
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I just heard that this whole contract fell over and there are about half a dozen guys and girls trying to get there old jobs back at nelson and eagle after forking out 26k for a 777 rating. any more info any one?
I have been told to stay away from rishworth before, as they are dodgy.
sounds like it may all be true after all.
God bless those unfortunate ones!
I have been told to stay away from rishworth before, as they are dodgy.
sounds like it may all be true after all.
God bless those unfortunate ones!
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B777 Contract-rishworth,.
Lesson number 1.....Rishworth dont generate the contracts, they merely listen to Harpreet or next Babu, wave a stick,Rishworth then discount their commision thru "magic mirrors" and then publish the contract
I dont like supporting the Rishworths of this world, but remember you are dealing with a Culture that insists on subterfuge.......normal life in India, if you are not screwing your fellow mate you are the wrong class/ caste.
Rishworth hide behind "sorry its A.I."......REALITY is they are, and we all know it the biggest "Whore House on this Aviation Planet." INDIA is worth wobbling your Head for according to RISH..Was hoping the new Management would play "kiwi ball", but alas not true.
Rishworth will always cover themselves with supporting overide clauses, or else deny over the phone said statements. Get it in writing.
If we werent so distracted for what ever reason we could quite easily put the Rishworths of this Planet out of selective Business,s.
I am looking into it
,
I dont like supporting the Rishworths of this world, but remember you are dealing with a Culture that insists on subterfuge.......normal life in India, if you are not screwing your fellow mate you are the wrong class/ caste.
Rishworth hide behind "sorry its A.I."......REALITY is they are, and we all know it the biggest "Whore House on this Aviation Planet." INDIA is worth wobbling your Head for according to RISH..Was hoping the new Management would play "kiwi ball", but alas not true.
Rishworth will always cover themselves with supporting overide clauses, or else deny over the phone said statements. Get it in writing.
If we werent so distracted for what ever reason we could quite easily put the Rishworths of this Planet out of selective Business,s.
I am looking into it
,