China Eastern
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China Eastern
China Eastern is looking for captains with basings in Paris and LAX.
Does anybody know what they are offering expats and what are rosters like?
Can anybody working there already shed some light?
With a LAX basing how long can you expect to spend at base?
Thanks
Caravan
Does anybody know what they are offering expats and what are rosters like?
Can anybody working there already shed some light?
With a LAX basing how long can you expect to spend at base?
Thanks
Caravan
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Brookfield Aviation
DONT GO THROUGH THIS AGENCIES they only interested for the commision of 1000,- u$ from you per month and, will leave you alone with all your problem just ask their pilots in India none from the agencies helping them with the trouble with the Indians company
and they pay 15 days arrears of the month, and usually late
And you can expect to spend no more than 7 days/month at your base...
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Has anyone actually worked for China Eastern? Can you give us a "heads up" prospective of what its like to work for them? What is the Interview like, 10 days !? What about the written tests, some say they are FAA based? Any one with real experience of the company in question? If so spare a moment a let us have your thoughts If they are too frank then please send a P.M.
Thanks
Thanks
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I'm not 100% positive.. but here's my opinion on expats going into China...
Conversion from any foreign license to CAAC equivalent is frustrating. It's a time consuming process because there are only few people to do the conversion and administer the exams, and when those people are "out" then you are just sitting around waiting to do nothing. I hear now the CAAC has issued one school that does conversions the question books, however you'll see several issues with the questions, ranging from bad translations to incomplete questions & answers, or any combination of the two. This goes for the commercial and instrument exams. The ATP exam is, unless they changed it, is word for word from the Australian CASA's ATP exam.
Here's a basic example of a question:
What is 1 + 1?
A) 0
B) 3.2
C) 0
Now, that's not an exact question, it's just an example. Replace numbers with random words and you'll get the point. The tests are made up of about 50-60% of these questions. Knowing aviation terminology in Maderin will definably help you out... but it's not impossible to pass... it just may take you a few times. Also, if you do fail, you have to wait 28 days until you can retake the exam. It's not like the FAA when there is no minimum time between retakes.
Conversion from any foreign license to CAAC equivalent is frustrating. It's a time consuming process because there are only few people to do the conversion and administer the exams, and when those people are "out" then you are just sitting around waiting to do nothing. I hear now the CAAC has issued one school that does conversions the question books, however you'll see several issues with the questions, ranging from bad translations to incomplete questions & answers, or any combination of the two. This goes for the commercial and instrument exams. The ATP exam is, unless they changed it, is word for word from the Australian CASA's ATP exam.
Here's a basic example of a question:
What is 1 + 1?
A) 0
B) 3.2
C) 0
Now, that's not an exact question, it's just an example. Replace numbers with random words and you'll get the point. The tests are made up of about 50-60% of these questions. Knowing aviation terminology in Maderin will definably help you out... but it's not impossible to pass... it just may take you a few times. Also, if you do fail, you have to wait 28 days until you can retake the exam. It's not like the FAA when there is no minimum time between retakes.
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China Eastern
Hey Guys,
The license is indeed based on the FAA, JAA ATPL syllabus. We were given about 10,000 questions to study as well as an FAA ATP guide. I locked myself in a hotel for 10 days and got through just fine, but there are several who failed. Its a 2 strikes an your out policy with CE so you would get a second chance.
Any of the expats would have all the info and study material you would need to pass.
Its true to say that some of the question have very strange wording as they were at one time or another literaly translated from chinese. It is also worth mentioning that 15-20 questions are only chinese regulations thats a guarenteed. There are 100 question in total.
Its true about the Paris base. Approx. 20 ex Austrian captains have been hired and are part timers based out of Paris, however non of them are online and flying as of yet. The whole process of changing your licence to a CAAC licence is a very long winded and time consuming process. It took us approx 8 months from start to getting on line.
Havn't heard anything about LAX base, but will be in the Office next week and will make some enquieries.
Its worth mentioning that out of 4000 pilots, currently 12 of us are non Chinese.
We are a very new concept to CE and its taking everyone a little while to get used to us and visa versa.
A couple of strange examples for you:
All flight crew have to complete a tech exam before each flight.
All Captains undergo a physical including blood pressure check before each flight.
Chinese pilots don't like to fly above FL200 because of radiation - all this whilst smoking a pack of 20 during the flight. The list is endless. It takes some getting used too.
As for the money, depends on several factors, but between US10K and 15K after tax (paid by company)plus housing(nice 2 bed appartment in great complex). US175 per hour after 80 hours.
I'm not sure who is the agent currently handling the China Eastern account. It was a company called Red Dot based out of Singapore, but they no longer have dealings with CE. Airbus also supply pilots directly to China Eastern.
Hope this helps. May see some of you at CE some day!
The license is indeed based on the FAA, JAA ATPL syllabus. We were given about 10,000 questions to study as well as an FAA ATP guide. I locked myself in a hotel for 10 days and got through just fine, but there are several who failed. Its a 2 strikes an your out policy with CE so you would get a second chance.
Any of the expats would have all the info and study material you would need to pass.
Its true to say that some of the question have very strange wording as they were at one time or another literaly translated from chinese. It is also worth mentioning that 15-20 questions are only chinese regulations thats a guarenteed. There are 100 question in total.
Its true about the Paris base. Approx. 20 ex Austrian captains have been hired and are part timers based out of Paris, however non of them are online and flying as of yet. The whole process of changing your licence to a CAAC licence is a very long winded and time consuming process. It took us approx 8 months from start to getting on line.
Havn't heard anything about LAX base, but will be in the Office next week and will make some enquieries.
Its worth mentioning that out of 4000 pilots, currently 12 of us are non Chinese.
We are a very new concept to CE and its taking everyone a little while to get used to us and visa versa.
A couple of strange examples for you:
All flight crew have to complete a tech exam before each flight.
All Captains undergo a physical including blood pressure check before each flight.
Chinese pilots don't like to fly above FL200 because of radiation - all this whilst smoking a pack of 20 during the flight. The list is endless. It takes some getting used too.
As for the money, depends on several factors, but between US10K and 15K after tax (paid by company)plus housing(nice 2 bed appartment in great complex). US175 per hour after 80 hours.
I'm not sure who is the agent currently handling the China Eastern account. It was a company called Red Dot based out of Singapore, but they no longer have dealings with CE. Airbus also supply pilots directly to China Eastern.
Hope this helps. May see some of you at CE some day!
Last edited by Texasishy; 29th Oct 2007 at 15:03.
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Hmm.. smoking?
I thought I read somewhere in the CAAC regulations (I should say FAA, JAA and CASA) that smoking is prohibited on aircraft and while in flight...
Now I know from experience that Chinese flight crews don't listen to that regulation, I've seen them lighting a fatty and puffin one down as I was boarding a China Eastern flight in Shijiazhuang..
I thought I read somewhere in the CAAC regulations (I should say FAA, JAA and CASA) that smoking is prohibited on aircraft and while in flight...
Now I know from experience that Chinese flight crews don't listen to that regulation, I've seen them lighting a fatty and puffin one down as I was boarding a China Eastern flight in Shijiazhuang..
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Hi Texasishy
Thanks for your post - Nice to hear from somebody who works for China Eastern.
Regarding the CAAC license you say "The license is indeed based on the FAA, JAA ATPL syllabus". Which FAR do they use? Sorry if that is a basic question, but I am not familiar with the FAA system. I found the following link for the Gleim Publications and that refers to various FAR's http://www.gleim.com/products/productdetails.php?proSell=ATP Would this guide be useful study tool?
You said Any of the expats would have all the info and study material you would need to pass . Could you elaborate on this please?
Regarding pay, Brookfield is saying $7,200 before final line check and $9,000 after. You talk of much better pay rates
and no mention of the $30,000 bonding for two years! Are you working out of Toulouse with previous A340/A330 time?
Or ?
Regards
Thanks for your post - Nice to hear from somebody who works for China Eastern.
Regarding the CAAC license you say "The license is indeed based on the FAA, JAA ATPL syllabus". Which FAR do they use? Sorry if that is a basic question, but I am not familiar with the FAA system. I found the following link for the Gleim Publications and that refers to various FAR's http://www.gleim.com/products/productdetails.php?proSell=ATP Would this guide be useful study tool?
You said Any of the expats would have all the info and study material you would need to pass . Could you elaborate on this please?
Regarding pay, Brookfield is saying $7,200 before final line check and $9,000 after. You talk of much better pay rates
and no mention of the $30,000 bonding for two years! Are you working out of Toulouse with previous A340/A330 time?
Or ?Regards
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From my CAAC conversion exams, it's a combination of Instrument, Commercial, and some CASA (Australia) ATP.
The only difference between the CAAC's Commercial and Instrument exams is, the Commercial exam has 100 questions, the Instrument has only 80. Seriously.. that's the only difference.
The only difference between the CAAC's Commercial and Instrument exams is, the Commercial exam has 100 questions, the Instrument has only 80. Seriously.. that's the only difference.
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salary at CE
With all due respect to all Brookfield and Red Dot, it seems CE is not clear on what the going rate is these days.
If they think they can attract serious candidates on LHS of A340 for 9000 USD AND put up with all the confusion that China currently deals out to expat pilots, then I guess there wont be too many guys joining. Those who do, would be mainly motivated by the type or the basing.
My advice is to be very, very cautious and not accept anything verbally that is not backed up by qualified papers and signatures. I have watched the scene very carefully and the only serious and interesting company out there is Jade Cargo, under new management. Hope they keep a place for me.
Best of luck to all those out there battling with the old established chinese carriers, you have a lot of ice breaking to do...
If they think they can attract serious candidates on LHS of A340 for 9000 USD AND put up with all the confusion that China currently deals out to expat pilots, then I guess there wont be too many guys joining. Those who do, would be mainly motivated by the type or the basing.
My advice is to be very, very cautious and not accept anything verbally that is not backed up by qualified papers and signatures. I have watched the scene very carefully and the only serious and interesting company out there is Jade Cargo, under new management. Hope they keep a place for me.
Best of luck to all those out there battling with the old established chinese carriers, you have a lot of ice breaking to do...
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China Eastern (Via Agencies) have been looking for A320 Captains that wish to add an A340 rating and fly for them. The deal is that you are bonded (US $32,000 over two years, paid up front) with a base in CDG, LHR or LAX and US $9000 per month. (75 Hours @ $120).
I am just back from Shanghai and I can tell you .. DONT DO IT.
They might say A340 - LAX, CDG or LHR but they mean A330, Shanghai working 6 weeks on and two weeks off.
If that doesnt put you of then wait till you get there A woman called Julia Chen will treat you like a child she will hang up the telephone on you, wave you away with the flick of her hand, shout at you and give you no respect (zero) wherever you came from or what you experience/age etc is. She is in charge of your recruitment process! She will treat you like this BEFORE you join What would it be like when you have handed over the $32,000?
The one way interview process starts at 07.30 Hrs Local one day one (no matter where your body clock is) with a immigration medical This will take most of the day and is one sided, you will have no idea what is being said unless you speak Chinese No English.
Day two CAAC Medical Another entire day with no feed back. Lots of rooms and very little respect for the individual (Eg ten men in a row drop them for the doctor!) only the nurse will get the modesty curtain. Blood is taken by standing in a row and sticking your arm through a serving hatch!
Day three The English test .. Even if your mother tongue is English this will make you work check the following link for more information. http://www.relta.org/sampleTest.php
Day four The CAAC ATPL FAA pilots have a distinct advantage The format is very FAA even if the regulations are Chinese Get the Gleim Airline Transport Pilot 2008 Test Prep CD-Rom from https://www.gleim.com/aviation/products.php?cat=ATP#TestPrepCD-Rom and become totally familiar with this BEFORE starting the CAAC workup. The CD will be familiar to FAA students and very strange for JAA/CAA students. Next purchase this book http://www.hceis.com/book.asp?id=3703 and down load the following questions http://www.huaxun-hk.com/ATPL.txt - Note these questions are NOT what you will get but if you read them and find the answer in the book (write the page number next to the questions for future reference) you will start to learn and all will be well in the exam. Give yourself time If you arrive in China without the ATPL study complete you will probably fail! You will not have enough study time, once you arrive in China.
Day five The Sim (should have said Night Four) real grave yard slots of 01.00 02.00 etc. 00.45 mins each. Basic stuff little use of Autopilot. RTO <72Kts, Visual Circuit, Go Around, Engine Fire (they like you to level at 1500' fire out or not!), Single Eng ILS with FD's (no autopilot) and thats about it. No Manuals, No Check lists Take your own if you want them (three copies).
Notes: Medical is VERY strict All pilots had a Class 1 FAA or JAA medical 50% failed the CAAC medical! The ATPL 2 out of 6 failed (+50% of local co pilots). Documents if a single document is not notarized and translated into Chinese the system will stall. If you are not able to get your Authority to confirm your hours then you will only be offered the chance to fly an A320 for the 500 hours before you start the larger A/C CCQ. FAA pilots have a real problem here get the paper or forget it! Visas VERY IMPORTANT - class C visas will not do You will need a new Visa (F works) but this will mean cancelling any C visa you may already have.
Best thing I can say is that the CES Pilots we met seemed OK - BUT until this woman is removed and the contract produced prior to visiting Shanghai forget it.
Regards
I am just back from Shanghai and I can tell you .. DONT DO IT.
They might say A340 - LAX, CDG or LHR but they mean A330, Shanghai working 6 weeks on and two weeks off.
If that doesnt put you of then wait till you get there A woman called Julia Chen will treat you like a child she will hang up the telephone on you, wave you away with the flick of her hand, shout at you and give you no respect (zero) wherever you came from or what you experience/age etc is. She is in charge of your recruitment process! She will treat you like this BEFORE you join What would it be like when you have handed over the $32,000?
The one way interview process starts at 07.30 Hrs Local one day one (no matter where your body clock is) with a immigration medical This will take most of the day and is one sided, you will have no idea what is being said unless you speak Chinese No English.
Day two CAAC Medical Another entire day with no feed back. Lots of rooms and very little respect for the individual (Eg ten men in a row drop them for the doctor!) only the nurse will get the modesty curtain. Blood is taken by standing in a row and sticking your arm through a serving hatch!
Day three The English test .. Even if your mother tongue is English this will make you work check the following link for more information. http://www.relta.org/sampleTest.php
Day four The CAAC ATPL FAA pilots have a distinct advantage The format is very FAA even if the regulations are Chinese Get the Gleim Airline Transport Pilot 2008 Test Prep CD-Rom from https://www.gleim.com/aviation/products.php?cat=ATP#TestPrepCD-Rom and become totally familiar with this BEFORE starting the CAAC workup. The CD will be familiar to FAA students and very strange for JAA/CAA students. Next purchase this book http://www.hceis.com/book.asp?id=3703 and down load the following questions http://www.huaxun-hk.com/ATPL.txt - Note these questions are NOT what you will get but if you read them and find the answer in the book (write the page number next to the questions for future reference) you will start to learn and all will be well in the exam. Give yourself time If you arrive in China without the ATPL study complete you will probably fail! You will not have enough study time, once you arrive in China.
Day five The Sim (should have said Night Four) real grave yard slots of 01.00 02.00 etc. 00.45 mins each. Basic stuff little use of Autopilot. RTO <72Kts, Visual Circuit, Go Around, Engine Fire (they like you to level at 1500' fire out or not!), Single Eng ILS with FD's (no autopilot) and thats about it. No Manuals, No Check lists Take your own if you want them (three copies).
Notes: Medical is VERY strict All pilots had a Class 1 FAA or JAA medical 50% failed the CAAC medical! The ATPL 2 out of 6 failed (+50% of local co pilots). Documents if a single document is not notarized and translated into Chinese the system will stall. If you are not able to get your Authority to confirm your hours then you will only be offered the chance to fly an A320 for the 500 hours before you start the larger A/C CCQ. FAA pilots have a real problem here get the paper or forget it! Visas VERY IMPORTANT - class C visas will not do You will need a new Visa (F works) but this will mean cancelling any C visa you may already have.
Best thing I can say is that the CES Pilots we met seemed OK - BUT until this woman is removed and the contract produced prior to visiting Shanghai forget it.
Regards
Last edited by chopper2; 21st Nov 2007 at 17:40.
