Expat pilots pose many problems
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I rather think the expats SOLVE the problem. Or do you want to put totally inexperienced crews in the cockpits of aircraft like 737, 320, 330 and 777?
Remember, accidents happen! See recently !
Remember, accidents happen! See recently !
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In. pIlots
''With so many Boeings and Airbuses around, Indian pilots don't want to fly ATRs, and so we have foreign pilots fill in the vacancies,"
-What about towing banners with a tail-weel?
-What about Flying cargo at nights with piston twins?
Don't they know how the rest of the pilots start flying in the world?
-What about towing banners with a tail-weel?
-What about Flying cargo at nights with piston twins?
Don't they know how the rest of the pilots start flying in the world?
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a clear cut company policy, bonds to protect company investment, payback when not fulfilling contractual obligations is partly the key to solving the problem. make it clear the moment they step into company premises... the problem with expat pilots is that they have this "knight-in-shining-armor" syndrome, the savior of the airline. they think they and only they can get things going in any airline. they bully themselves around, ask a lot of unrealistic demands and so on... however, i have to give credit to others who conduct themselves in a professional way... you simply can't get all the good guys in the world... give pre-termination clauses in their contracts for bad behavior, let's see who will toe the line... 
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''With so many Boeings and Airbuses around, Indian pilots don't want to fly ATRs, and so we have foreign pilots fill in the vacancies,"
-What about towing banners with a tail-weel?
-What about Flying cargo at nights with piston twins?
Don't they know how the rest of the pilots start flying in the world?
You knowTali, I agree, lifes been a bitch for some pilots. The secret is to be happy for those who have a smoother run in their life. Try making some friends.
-What about towing banners with a tail-weel?
-What about Flying cargo at nights with piston twins?
Don't they know how the rest of the pilots start flying in the world?
You knowTali, I agree, lifes been a bitch for some pilots. The secret is to be happy for those who have a smoother run in their life. Try making some friends.
Try flight instruction in single engine aircraft, or scenic flights for a first job. Move up to twin charter at 1000/hrs, maybe at 1500-2000 look at right seat turbine if lucky.
RHS on a modern medium turbo prop for a first job, what are these guys complaining about ?
Obviously never seen a pilot glut before
RHS on a modern medium turbo prop for a first job, what are these guys complaining about ?
Obviously never seen a pilot glut before
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Wow, green with envy aren't we?
Tali.
While respecting and admiring your climb on the aviation career ladder from SE instructing to Navajo's/King Airs to RJ's and on and on (just a symbolic example) you cannot tell me that you would pass up on an opportunity to sit on the RHS of a shiny new 320/737 with your shiny new CPL.
Ya we are a pampered lot. Luck of the draw.
Glut in aviation there was in India. A severe nasty one in the mid to late nineties. With lot of startups shutting down there were more than 2000 CPL holders sitting on the ground twiddling their thumbs. I remember coming back from my training way back in 97 with an AI ad for trainee pilots with 20 vacancies. No. of candidates... 1800.
A lot of people suffered through this downturn with no GA backup including myself. There's no towing jobs in India. There are no twin cargo jobs in India. GA/corporate/charter is practically non existent in India. There is NO OTHER option for Indian guys. So your alternate career paths don't fly in India. Your world is not the only world out there.
Tali.
While respecting and admiring your climb on the aviation career ladder from SE instructing to Navajo's/King Airs to RJ's and on and on (just a symbolic example) you cannot tell me that you would pass up on an opportunity to sit on the RHS of a shiny new 320/737 with your shiny new CPL.
Ya we are a pampered lot. Luck of the draw.
Glut in aviation there was in India. A severe nasty one in the mid to late nineties. With lot of startups shutting down there were more than 2000 CPL holders sitting on the ground twiddling their thumbs. I remember coming back from my training way back in 97 with an AI ad for trainee pilots with 20 vacancies. No. of candidates... 1800.
A lot of people suffered through this downturn with no GA backup including myself. There's no towing jobs in India. There are no twin cargo jobs in India. GA/corporate/charter is practically non existent in India. There is NO OTHER option for Indian guys. So your alternate career paths don't fly in India. Your world is not the only world out there.
Let these guys prove themselves for a few hundred hours first on a slower, easier aircraft before they fly the really serious stuff. A few filthy nights at busy airports will sort out the men from the boys.
There is too much on an A320 you can mess up through plain inexperience. A night approach during the monsoon at an underequipped airport is not the place to practice for a 200hr f/o with a new captain.
Why's it doing that ?
Why didn't it capture the LOC ? Oops, forgot to arm the approach
Why are we accelerating to 250 kts on final ? Ah forgot to activate approach phase.
Why did the engines go to climb power when I disconnected autothrust ? Should have bought the little circles back to the needles shouldn't I.
1000' not stable GO AROUND
There is too much on an A320 you can mess up through plain inexperience. A night approach during the monsoon at an underequipped airport is not the place to practice for a 200hr f/o with a new captain.
Why's it doing that ?
Why didn't it capture the LOC ? Oops, forgot to arm the approach
Why are we accelerating to 250 kts on final ? Ah forgot to activate approach phase.
Why did the engines go to climb power when I disconnected autothrust ? Should have bought the little circles back to the needles shouldn't I.
1000' not stable GO AROUND
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C152 pipeline patrol Tennessee to South Florida twice a week
then finally a offer to fly Twin Otters in Virgin Islands sounds good Uh well 12 island legs a day 2 days off a week if you were lucky.
Then hit pay dirt got to sit side saddle on B727 3 years then right seat B727 5 years then upgrade to B737 Capt life is grand then FURLOUGH.
I have to love aviation or I am INSANE.
then finally a offer to fly Twin Otters in Virgin Islands sounds good Uh well 12 island legs a day 2 days off a week if you were lucky.
Then hit pay dirt got to sit side saddle on B727 3 years then right seat B727 5 years then upgrade to B737 Capt life is grand then FURLOUGH.
I have to love aviation or I am INSANE.
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Again, it all comes down to what the airlines need compared to what's available out there. There aren't enough opportunities for guys and gals to get that kind of experience. The trickle down is that the airlines don't have a choice.
The best way out is to recruit expat F/O's. But put yourself in a local kids shoes. He has no opportunity to gain the experience and skills which are in dire need prior to stepping onto a jet. This uneven playing field puts them at a severe disadvantage. Even if one was willing to go the conventional western way of career progression, which country is going to give a green guy a work permit to go and work their way up.
You are bang on with the 200 hr F/O and new capt. scenario. We have a lot of retirees here from the states and other countries. One of the more unique challenges facing us now is pilot incapacitation. My airline has recognized this and is trying to sked only experienced F/O's with new capt.'s (I believe DGCA requires that as well). But with so many new hires on both seats this becomes a daunting task as well. Also this combination robs F/O's of an opportunity to learn a/c handling because the new capt's are not cleared for assisted t/o's and ldg's. A catch 22 where everyone.
I actually feel bad for these expats who join as line captains but employed as de facto training captains.
The best way out is to recruit expat F/O's. But put yourself in a local kids shoes. He has no opportunity to gain the experience and skills which are in dire need prior to stepping onto a jet. This uneven playing field puts them at a severe disadvantage. Even if one was willing to go the conventional western way of career progression, which country is going to give a green guy a work permit to go and work their way up.
You are bang on with the 200 hr F/O and new capt. scenario. We have a lot of retirees here from the states and other countries. One of the more unique challenges facing us now is pilot incapacitation. My airline has recognized this and is trying to sked only experienced F/O's with new capt.'s (I believe DGCA requires that as well). But with so many new hires on both seats this becomes a daunting task as well. Also this combination robs F/O's of an opportunity to learn a/c handling because the new capt's are not cleared for assisted t/o's and ldg's. A catch 22 where everyone.
I actually feel bad for these expats who join as line captains but employed as de facto training captains.
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Av8r76
" But put yourself in a local kids shoes. He has no opportunity to gain the experience and skills which are in dire need prior to stepping onto a jet."
You mean no Air Taxi pilot and no Flying Club Instructor in India , even with the increased prosperity?
" But put yourself in a local kids shoes. He has no opportunity to gain the experience and skills which are in dire need prior to stepping onto a jet."
You mean no Air Taxi pilot and no Flying Club Instructor in India , even with the increased prosperity?
Last edited by Guava Tree; 23rd Sep 2007 at 12:37.
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So with such a lack of crew out there, where would be a good place for me to sign up? 
Not much experience with the Indian avaition scene. I know several of the pilots who used to fly out here on ATR's have been either offered or have headed out over there.
Do you need a rating? I've been flying vans in Africa for the past two years got 4000 hours under my belt. Realisticly is there a chance for me to move out there? Keen a scenery change.
Thanks
Not much experience with the Indian avaition scene. I know several of the pilots who used to fly out here on ATR's have been either offered or have headed out over there.Do you need a rating? I've been flying vans in Africa for the past two years got 4000 hours under my belt. Realisticly is there a chance for me to move out there? Keen a scenery change.
Thanks
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Corporate/ flight instructor/ air taxi jobs too few and far between. Again, with so many 320/737 jobs up for grabs who would want to do that anyway. It's besides the point that in the long run guys are better of taking it step by step.
Right now I see the ATR jobs as the most lucrative a/c to fly in airline ops because nobody wants to touch these planes. I don't know what the hiring policies are for all airlines but I would contact Deccan and Kingfisher and see what the requirements are. Good luck.
Right now I see the ATR jobs as the most lucrative a/c to fly in airline ops because nobody wants to touch these planes. I don't know what the hiring policies are for all airlines but I would contact Deccan and Kingfisher and see what the requirements are. Good luck.
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You won't be out numbered if you already prepared for this kind of thing much earlier, and who knows about the future...don't worry we're all gonna leave after we get what we came for that's for sure
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Training Contracts
While a pilot leaving in the middle or soon after training ends really makes me angry too, it is once again a fact of life in this great aviation circle of life.
It is supply and demand. And right now there are more jobs than there are pilots to fill them.
In the U.S. at least, training agreements have been found to cost more to prosecute than the money at stake.
It is supply and demand. And right now there are more jobs than there are pilots to fill them.
In the U.S. at least, training agreements have been found to cost more to prosecute than the money at stake.
