Beijing PanAm - disrespect and humiliation of instructors
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Go straight, then right...
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To whatisthathey: Even if the company anybody else is working for has an atrocious maintenance team, that doesn't make Pan Am good... that was really chilidish...
To Hudson Hawk: Reading one of your previous posts.... You say they are hiring Chinese instructors because they have no choice but to do so; again you prove your ignorance: They were doing so way before all this happened, by the time they were still firing instructors because of student reports, invalid tests, etc...
It was something all foreigners suspected: they were trying to get their own crew, and when they did so, they won't need us anymore.
Of course you didn't know Mr.
(ring my bell...) got fired because of hiring military guys to instruct without a civil license at Handan, did you?
Again, nobody is lying here. We're just stating facts to let people know what Pan Am really is, don't try to fool anybody.
IF YOU CANNOT DENY (as you know it's true) ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID HERE, HOW CAN YOU STILL DEFEND THAT COMPANY AFTER ALL?!?!?!
You really have proven you ignore how does the company work at any level. You know nothing about the recruitment or ground school there, (which should be the basement for any formation) You absolutely ignore how does management work. You seem to be willing to make deaf ears to all the facts about the company's background.
Really, after all this time and you didn't get anything... Pan Am definitely suits you. You'll do a 3rd and even a 5th contract, I would say.
As one dark friend told me once there
: "Keep dancing to Pan Am's music..."
To Hudson Hawk: Reading one of your previous posts.... You say they are hiring Chinese instructors because they have no choice but to do so; again you prove your ignorance: They were doing so way before all this happened, by the time they were still firing instructors because of student reports, invalid tests, etc...
It was something all foreigners suspected: they were trying to get their own crew, and when they did so, they won't need us anymore.
Of course you didn't know Mr.
(ring my bell...) got fired because of hiring military guys to instruct without a civil license at Handan, did you?Again, nobody is lying here. We're just stating facts to let people know what Pan Am really is, don't try to fool anybody.
IF YOU CANNOT DENY (as you know it's true) ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN SAID HERE, HOW CAN YOU STILL DEFEND THAT COMPANY AFTER ALL?!?!?!
You really have proven you ignore how does the company work at any level. You know nothing about the recruitment or ground school there, (which should be the basement for any formation) You absolutely ignore how does management work. You seem to be willing to make deaf ears to all the facts about the company's background.
Really, after all this time and you didn't get anything... Pan Am definitely suits you. You'll do a 3rd and even a 5th contract, I would say.
As one dark friend told me once there
: "Keep dancing to Pan Am's music..."
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dreamland
Age: 17
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lao Tseu (Lao Zi) said
A few thoughts of the famous chinese Lao Zi:
1. Don't believe what they say. Believe what they do.
2. They don't do what they say. They don't say what they do.
Happy flying
1. Don't believe what they say. Believe what they do.
2. They don't do what they say. They don't say what they do.
Happy flying
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 3rd Planet
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Name 1 thing Pan Am did to improve safety?
Improving employment is one thing.. but they only know how to do it on the ground.
Did you forget your job is teaching students how to fly... and your tool is an airplane that in any other country would be rendered unairworthy due to lack of maintenance, lack of maintenance records, and lack of AD compliance?
Improving employment is one thing.. but they only know how to do it on the ground.
Did you forget your job is teaching students how to fly... and your tool is an airplane that in any other country would be rendered unairworthy due to lack of maintenance, lack of maintenance records, and lack of AD compliance?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Go straight, then right...
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You really think you are kidding anybody?!?!?!
Tell me things that I said that are not current, and stop talking bull****.
You talk like a bad politician: You talk too much and say nothing.
Your positive points are:
1.- You got your "Foreign Expert Certificate" back. Well, that is so helpful for working at that company. The expert cerificate is only good for changing jobs in China, so if you are intending to stay at Pan Am... what do you want it for???
2.- You got some medical reports back. They are good for absolutely nothing...
3.- You got a pay-rise of 300$ a month. Which still doesn't make it competitive at all.
4.- You have a swimming pool. No comments.
5.- You got survival kits. As Nick perfectly said: You're getting ready for the worst, as the maintenance problems haven't been solved at all... Good on you.
6.- You are flying more at Wuhai. What about the rest of the bases? What about telling the truth for once and admitting that happened at Baotou and Binzhou when they had few instructors as you have right now at Wuhai?
7.- Pan Am is evolving fast. You lie again. Pan Am has been open for around 4 years now, and nothing has changed for good, just minor things as the ones you just got now. After minor improvements, always major crap came by. AGAIN: In 10 bloody months nothing changed for good, is that fast evolving for you?
I didn't leave that long ago.... only 2 months buddy...
8.- You got fancy cushions for the planes. No comments.
9.- You save money. That was never denied, but the quality of the life you have there is really low. If you want to enjoy something then you must go to Beijing or other big city, where you won't be saving anything. And, believe me when I tell you that the difference in salary is so big, that even with the expenses I have here, I'm not saving less than I was saving there at all.
So:
Have you got any real improvement in safety? (please state something that's not the already mentioned survival kits)
Has the ATC improved there?
Do you have updated databases for the G1000, or are you still working with the ones the planes brought in them 4 years ago?
Has the ground school changed at all? Do they still use people who only have seen airplanes on pictures to teach ATP stuff?
Do you have a proper weather office with current weather and not the dispatch crew peeping out of the window and saying there are 10k when you can't see anything?
Do you have access to the maintenance records now?
Have the maintenance guys any course on Lycoming engines or DA40 maintenance or do they still use Duck tape to fix cracks and leave fuel gaskets disconnected after installing an engine?
A solo STUDENT took passengers the other day and nothing happened as usual. Am I talking about the past here too?
Again you talk bull**** when you say that anybody who left ran from challenges. People stood as much as they needed and got into real challenges (not like you, who are almost a ghost there dancing at Pan Am's music).
So, If you feel like the bravest man in the world, a pioneer because of staying at a **** hole like that good on you
, but please realize of your incongruity (and you can't miss this.. it's in the same post!!!):
You depict Pan Am as a place to forget about everything that surrounds you and get hours and money, dismissing anything that has to do with really implementing any aviation standard in a country that has no aviation culture at all (really, you have proven you couldn't care less about what's being done there), and then run to the next step. And still you consider yourself as part of something bigger, a project, the rising of the sleeping dragon... Please quit all that, you're kidding nobody but yourself!
We are depicting Pan Am the way it is, you are trying to fool people and that's not nice.
I never came into this forum to complain about Pan Am initially until I saw you lying like you are doing...
So please answer my questions and say 1 thing I've said that's obsolete. I'm not asking for more than one... it should be easy unless you are full of **** in this matter...
Well... I think that should be enough for today... I have better things to do than talking to a wall...
You talk like a bad politician: You talk too much and say nothing.
You guys left the company such a log time ago and still manage to make it your duty to come here and leave the most depressing comments about things that happened in the past and no longer relevant, completely dismissing the good changes and positive aspect of this employment. There are many! We still here !
1.- You got your "Foreign Expert Certificate" back. Well, that is so helpful for working at that company. The expert cerificate is only good for changing jobs in China, so if you are intending to stay at Pan Am... what do you want it for???
2.- You got some medical reports back. They are good for absolutely nothing...
3.- You got a pay-rise of 300$ a month. Which still doesn't make it competitive at all.
4.- You have a swimming pool. No comments.
5.- You got survival kits. As Nick perfectly said: You're getting ready for the worst, as the maintenance problems haven't been solved at all... Good on you.
6.- You are flying more at Wuhai. What about the rest of the bases? What about telling the truth for once and admitting that happened at Baotou and Binzhou when they had few instructors as you have right now at Wuhai?
7.- Pan Am is evolving fast. You lie again. Pan Am has been open for around 4 years now, and nothing has changed for good, just minor things as the ones you just got now. After minor improvements, always major crap came by. AGAIN: In 10 bloody months nothing changed for good, is that fast evolving for you?
I didn't leave that long ago.... only 2 months buddy...
8.- You got fancy cushions for the planes. No comments.
9.- You save money. That was never denied, but the quality of the life you have there is really low. If you want to enjoy something then you must go to Beijing or other big city, where you won't be saving anything. And, believe me when I tell you that the difference in salary is so big, that even with the expenses I have here, I'm not saving less than I was saving there at all.
So:
Have you got any real improvement in safety? (please state something that's not the already mentioned survival kits)
Has the ATC improved there?
Do you have updated databases for the G1000, or are you still working with the ones the planes brought in them 4 years ago?
Has the ground school changed at all? Do they still use people who only have seen airplanes on pictures to teach ATP stuff?
Do you have a proper weather office with current weather and not the dispatch crew peeping out of the window and saying there are 10k when you can't see anything?
Do you have access to the maintenance records now?
Have the maintenance guys any course on Lycoming engines or DA40 maintenance or do they still use Duck tape to fix cracks and leave fuel gaskets disconnected after installing an engine?
A solo STUDENT took passengers the other day and nothing happened as usual. Am I talking about the past here too?
Again you talk bull**** when you say that anybody who left ran from challenges. People stood as much as they needed and got into real challenges (not like you, who are almost a ghost there dancing at Pan Am's music).
So, If you feel like the bravest man in the world, a pioneer because of staying at a **** hole like that good on you
, but please realize of your incongruity (and you can't miss this.. it's in the same post!!!):
Again, you may choose to run away from challenges and degree of risks while we remain, be part of it, participate and observe it's evolution with a great interest, perhaps making the history
I'm not a career instructor. Although I'm here to have fun, experience foreign culture (could be rather disgusting from time to time but again - run away from challenges as far as you can!) save more money then you EVER could at your EU flightschool employment and once hours/cash target is achieved - move on.
You depict Pan Am as a place to forget about everything that surrounds you and get hours and money, dismissing anything that has to do with really implementing any aviation standard in a country that has no aviation culture at all (really, you have proven you couldn't care less about what's being done there), and then run to the next step. And still you consider yourself as part of something bigger, a project, the rising of the sleeping dragon... Please quit all that, you're kidding nobody but yourself!
We are depicting Pan Am the way it is, you are trying to fool people and that's not nice.
I never came into this forum to complain about Pan Am initially until I saw you lying like you are doing...
So please answer my questions and say 1 thing I've said that's obsolete. I'm not asking for more than one... it should be easy unless you are full of **** in this matter...
Well... I think that should be enough for today... I have better things to do than talking to a wall...
Last edited by Harcipotter; 22nd Oct 2007 at 16:22. Reason: ESL
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 3rd Planet
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russell I once thought the exact thing like you...
Oh Pan Am is getting better...
Well after 11 months at Pan Am, I realized how much I had lied to myself, much like you are doing to yourself right now.
BPIAA isn't improving. Sure you may be getting 300 dollars more.. but guess what.. what good is that 300 dollars gonna do if you have an engine failure with B-9135 in the desert? What good is your foreign expert certificate gonna do then?
You think of only material things that you can possess.. when the key to improving Pan Am lays in 2 key departments...
1) Ground school
2) Maintenance
As far as the survival kits go... it's good to be prepared for the worst.. but that does nothing as far as the prevention of the worst from happening.
Oh Pan Am is getting better...
Well after 11 months at Pan Am, I realized how much I had lied to myself, much like you are doing to yourself right now.
BPIAA isn't improving. Sure you may be getting 300 dollars more.. but guess what.. what good is that 300 dollars gonna do if you have an engine failure with B-9135 in the desert? What good is your foreign expert certificate gonna do then?
You think of only material things that you can possess.. when the key to improving Pan Am lays in 2 key departments...
1) Ground school
2) Maintenance
As far as the survival kits go... it's good to be prepared for the worst.. but that does nothing as far as the prevention of the worst from happening.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: I dont know anymore
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank god I have my first aid kit, this is really gonna help me in my 200km trek across the desert with a broken leg. Thanxxx panam
You guys are obviously too busy quoting reason & enjoying those fancy new cushions to realise that no1 cares about you. (And if you really cared about safety, you would leave)
Panam is evolving? hahahaha.
If you define evolution as a pool, your BS documents & some extra cash, you are spot on right there. Maybe soon you can actually use those transponders huh?
You guys are obviously too busy quoting reason & enjoying those fancy new cushions to realise that no1 cares about you. (And if you really cared about safety, you would leave)
Panam is evolving? hahahaha.
If you define evolution as a pool, your BS documents & some extra cash, you are spot on right there. Maybe soon you can actually use those transponders huh?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Go straight, then right...
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You're still missing the point...
Well... at least I see you backed up a little.
You've answered none of my previous questions...
Anyway, the only pros you talk about are subject to conditions:
-
ONLY if you are sent to Wuhai, which as you said has only 7 airplanes. No twins, no maintenance center and no IFR training going on. As soon as more guys join the crew there you'll find yourself in the same situation as the guys in Baotou, excluding the fact that they have twins and IFR training...
-
It is a real shame that such a nice fleet has been made such a dangerous one by maintenance. So, yes, it would be great to fly those planes, but somewhere else where they are not such a potential danger to your health and integrity.
So (and I think this is the 3rd of 4th time I ask) please tell me where's the real evolution. I already stated all the points you did as pros, and again you gave me no answer...
And truly: I don't want to see people joining that company thinking it is something it is not and keep feeding the big pig Pan Am is. They've already had enough... it is time they pay for their present sins.
Tailwinds
You've answered none of my previous questions...
Anyway, the only pros you talk about are subject to conditions:
-
get a lot of flight hours
-
very advanced aircraft and the best avionics
So (and I think this is the 3rd of 4th time I ask) please tell me where's the real evolution. I already stated all the points you did as pros, and again you gave me no answer...
And truly: I don't want to see people joining that company thinking it is something it is not and keep feeding the big pig Pan Am is. They've already had enough... it is time they pay for their present sins.
Tailwinds
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Go straight, then right...
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Check what you say before you start braying...
But this dinosaur is evolving and evolving fast
In Wuhai there are 8 dispatch people. (We only have 7 airplanes!)
They are building a maintenance center... therefore, you don't have one. And you don't have any twins the same way you're lack of any IFR training...
Seriously, what are you trying to say
Fly safe...
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 3rd Planet
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If BPIAA is such a good place, why are you the only one still here praising it?
If we're wrong.. then ignore us. There's no reason to argue with us... we all had bad experiences with BPIAA and you can't change that fact... but since you're the only one still activly posting here.. makes you appear you're the only one in the boat and treading lots of water.
All those improvements to your living conditions and that extra pay raise.. congradulations.. I guess you forget there are other people who work in BPIAA who work their butts off, yet what they make in a month you make in a week. By the way... has maintenance improved? How's B-9135, has it's engine been torn apart to see if there has been any internal parts damaged or are you all anticipating that the "survival" kit is going to save your life?
If we're wrong.. then ignore us. There's no reason to argue with us... we all had bad experiences with BPIAA and you can't change that fact... but since you're the only one still activly posting here.. makes you appear you're the only one in the boat and treading lots of water.
All those improvements to your living conditions and that extra pay raise.. congradulations.. I guess you forget there are other people who work in BPIAA who work their butts off, yet what they make in a month you make in a week. By the way... has maintenance improved? How's B-9135, has it's engine been torn apart to see if there has been any internal parts damaged or are you all anticipating that the "survival" kit is going to save your life?
