Pan Am Beijing
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Age: 44
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Why Beijing Panam?
Why indeed would you want to work for Beijing Panam?
Well, for one thing, being promoted there is very easy: a few days after your arrival there, if you speak to the right people, you will be offered all sorts of great positions: manager of standards, chief flight instructor, safety officer.
You think you are not qualified? Are you afraid you won't meet the requirements? Don't worry, there are no requirements.
The only thing to remember is: there are no rules, no seniority, no logic to anything.
A pilot with less than 500 hours total time can be a CJ1 captain and instructor. He is now teaching students, carrying VIPs, with less than 500 hours total time.
The chief flight instructor has almost no multi time (less than 50, I wont give the actual figure) and he is re-writing the SOPs for the whole company. Most of his flying is on ultralights.
Yes, I have been working there for some time, enough for me and some others to realise what is going on.
It is still a full time job in a big flight school that has great potential, but don't expect to find well-qualified people at the key positions.
There is also a huge deal of back stabbing going on among some, especially when they want to access positions that they don't qualify for.
I wonder why Mr Murphy is still "advertising" for this place and giving
Mr Davenport's (safety officer) and Jessica's (HR) emails.
Come on Pat, don't you know this place well enough?
You have left more than 6 months ago, but things haven't changed that much.
I would give all the gold in the world to know what do the Chinese managers of Panam think of all these foreigners fighting each other and back stabbing each other, rather than stick together and make this place work.
Any idea Pat? You have attended a few meetings there.
To answer your question, no, I wouldn't come to work for Beijing Panam.
Especially with the current situation in North America, where everyone is recruiting like crazy.
Unless of course you don't mind an adventurous life.
Lots of stories to tell your grandchildren!
Take care, fly safe.
Well, for one thing, being promoted there is very easy: a few days after your arrival there, if you speak to the right people, you will be offered all sorts of great positions: manager of standards, chief flight instructor, safety officer.
You think you are not qualified? Are you afraid you won't meet the requirements? Don't worry, there are no requirements.
The only thing to remember is: there are no rules, no seniority, no logic to anything.
A pilot with less than 500 hours total time can be a CJ1 captain and instructor. He is now teaching students, carrying VIPs, with less than 500 hours total time.
The chief flight instructor has almost no multi time (less than 50, I wont give the actual figure) and he is re-writing the SOPs for the whole company. Most of his flying is on ultralights.
Yes, I have been working there for some time, enough for me and some others to realise what is going on.
It is still a full time job in a big flight school that has great potential, but don't expect to find well-qualified people at the key positions.
There is also a huge deal of back stabbing going on among some, especially when they want to access positions that they don't qualify for.
I wonder why Mr Murphy is still "advertising" for this place and giving
Mr Davenport's (safety officer) and Jessica's (HR) emails.
Come on Pat, don't you know this place well enough?
You have left more than 6 months ago, but things haven't changed that much.
I would give all the gold in the world to know what do the Chinese managers of Panam think of all these foreigners fighting each other and back stabbing each other, rather than stick together and make this place work.
Any idea Pat? You have attended a few meetings there.
To answer your question, no, I wouldn't come to work for Beijing Panam.
Especially with the current situation in North America, where everyone is recruiting like crazy.
Unless of course you don't mind an adventurous life.
Lots of stories to tell your grandchildren!
Take care, fly safe.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Florida and the rest of the world
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Advertising?
I think if you actually searched you would find that since even before I left Beijing PanAm in late January this year, I stopped "recommending" them. I have continued to answer direct questions about China and the conditions there. I will also continue to refer flight instructors to the appropriate people at BPIAA if they request that. That should not imply that I am recommending or "advertising" for them. In fact, in my present position at a flight school in the USA, I am now a direct competitor for the same Chinese airline students.
Looking for a job as a flight instructor in the USA? Please let me know!
PM
Looking for a job as a flight instructor in the USA? Please let me know!
PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Beijing Panam: a dead end?
Quote from Mr Murphy, dated 28 february 2007:
And to respond to an initial comment, it is correct that I am no longer with the company. Howard Davenport is still there ([email protected]) and the instructor recruiter is Jessica Tian ([email protected]). Their website is available at www.panamaviation.com (there is an English version), but it is somewhat dated as it still carries me as being part of the company.
P. Murphy
Yes Pat you are correct.
However it seems that Panam has greater difficulties to recruit people nowadays.
Mr Davenport has gone on a trip to America last month in order to hire instructors. He probably wasn't convincing enough, because up here in Baotou, we haven't seen any new instructor for months.
There are still instructors waiting for their licenses, and others waiting to sit their CAAC written exams.
Instead of trying to do a good job with the students, the instructors who are certified are just too busy competing for a position on the CJ1, and stabbing each other in the back.
The Chinese base manager must be having the time of his life, watching all these foreigners fighting like old ladies.
And to respond to an initial comment, it is correct that I am no longer with the company. Howard Davenport is still there ([email protected]) and the instructor recruiter is Jessica Tian ([email protected]). Their website is available at www.panamaviation.com (there is an English version), but it is somewhat dated as it still carries me as being part of the company.
P. Murphy
Yes Pat you are correct.
However it seems that Panam has greater difficulties to recruit people nowadays.
Mr Davenport has gone on a trip to America last month in order to hire instructors. He probably wasn't convincing enough, because up here in Baotou, we haven't seen any new instructor for months.
There are still instructors waiting for their licenses, and others waiting to sit their CAAC written exams.
Instead of trying to do a good job with the students, the instructors who are certified are just too busy competing for a position on the CJ1, and stabbing each other in the back.
The Chinese base manager must be having the time of his life, watching all these foreigners fighting like old ladies.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dreamland
Age: 17
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this is China
hello guys,
1. if you passed the written tests ( and they are really crazy ) and the checkride with an CAAC examiner, then you can wait for months to receive a temporary chinese licence valid only 3 months.
2. if you did NOT passed the tests, because they are really crazy and nothing to do with your abilities and knowledge, you get a validation and can almost immediately start to fly as an instructor in China.
Does it make sense?
this is only the reality!
have a good day and lot's of flying wherever you are!
Flytoo (sometimes)
1. if you passed the written tests ( and they are really crazy ) and the checkride with an CAAC examiner, then you can wait for months to receive a temporary chinese licence valid only 3 months.
2. if you did NOT passed the tests, because they are really crazy and nothing to do with your abilities and knowledge, you get a validation and can almost immediately start to fly as an instructor in China.
Does it make sense?
this is only the reality!
have a good day and lot's of flying wherever you are!
Flytoo (sometimes)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Zealand
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Situation No Change... AFU
HHMMMM .. seems like nothing has changed at Beijing Panam in the last year since I left there. I know some guys who have been there now for more than 2 years ..... They deserve a medal!
If you work at Panam or want to work at Panam you need to know the secret!
The secret is this .... Dont think that because you are experienced and have qualifications and good hours that this means you are needed there or that they will want to draw on your experience in order to teach others. If you are very inexperienced and have very low hours then you are in a much better position to be promoted.
You see the Chinese way of thinking is this .... If there is a rule that stops you from doing something then that rule is irrelevant ... you just ignore it. If people who are experienced start giving you advice that you dont want to hear then you not only ignore them but you restrict them in every way you can. Those who are born brown nosers will be promoted immediately and those brown nosers who are inexperienced will be promoted even faster to even higher positions. This is because they can be easily manipulated to do exacly what the management want them to do. But do you know what the best thing is about all this as far as the Chinese thinking is involved? When the **** hits the fan the Chinese can stand back and blame the foreigner for the stuff up
.... I tell you the Chinese are not stupid like a lot of people think. When the **** hits the fan they will stand back and say "But it is the fault of the foreigner ... he is a foreign expert .. he is here to help us because in China we have not done anything like this before. Don't be fooled guys .... Foreigners are not there because they are wanted .. they are there because they are needed .... and when the time comes that they are not needed then they won't be there.
My advice is ..... If you work for Panam or are planning to work for Panam try not to think like a foreigner! Just go with the flow. Don't try to chage things or you will be viewed as a threat. Just keep your head down and keep a low profile. The secret for working at Panam is this...
1) Trust no one and you will not be betrayed
2) Expect nothing and then everything you do get is a bonus
3) Treat every promise as a lie until proven otherwise or you will only be contiually disappointed.
4) Dont have the expectation of getting lots of flying hours.
When I was at Panam I looked at things this way in order to stop me going crazy ....... "Eat their great food, drink their great beer, screw their pretty girls .... and laugh all the way to the bank!" ...... and remember .. flying is just a brief interuption to your social life.
If you work at Panam or want to work at Panam you need to know the secret!
The secret is this .... Dont think that because you are experienced and have qualifications and good hours that this means you are needed there or that they will want to draw on your experience in order to teach others. If you are very inexperienced and have very low hours then you are in a much better position to be promoted.
You see the Chinese way of thinking is this .... If there is a rule that stops you from doing something then that rule is irrelevant ... you just ignore it. If people who are experienced start giving you advice that you dont want to hear then you not only ignore them but you restrict them in every way you can. Those who are born brown nosers will be promoted immediately and those brown nosers who are inexperienced will be promoted even faster to even higher positions. This is because they can be easily manipulated to do exacly what the management want them to do. But do you know what the best thing is about all this as far as the Chinese thinking is involved? When the **** hits the fan the Chinese can stand back and blame the foreigner for the stuff up
.... I tell you the Chinese are not stupid like a lot of people think. When the **** hits the fan they will stand back and say "But it is the fault of the foreigner ... he is a foreign expert .. he is here to help us because in China we have not done anything like this before. Don't be fooled guys .... Foreigners are not there because they are wanted .. they are there because they are needed .... and when the time comes that they are not needed then they won't be there.My advice is ..... If you work for Panam or are planning to work for Panam try not to think like a foreigner! Just go with the flow. Don't try to chage things or you will be viewed as a threat. Just keep your head down and keep a low profile. The secret for working at Panam is this...
1) Trust no one and you will not be betrayed
2) Expect nothing and then everything you do get is a bonus
3) Treat every promise as a lie until proven otherwise or you will only be contiually disappointed.
4) Dont have the expectation of getting lots of flying hours.
When I was at Panam I looked at things this way in order to stop me going crazy ....... "Eat their great food, drink their great beer, screw their pretty girls .... and laugh all the way to the bank!" ...... and remember .. flying is just a brief interuption to your social life
.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dreamland
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Tourism in China
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen!
Boys and Girls!
We love Panam!
Discover the Chinese way of Life! Travel to great cities like Shijiazhuang, Handan and Baotou. Explore the new world of aviation; China's aviation is booming and need thousand of pilots. Train the elite of the new generation.
Where will they come from? Nobody knows of course! When? Good question! No answer yet!
I really love the job. And I believe that everywhere in the world is a pilot shortage! Really?
I don't agree; because we have at Panam flight instructors waiting to start teaching. Some for a few months, some almost a year, some too tired to wait and now they are leaving!
Just apply and get the great job, we need your help!
Don't believe anything, don't trust anybody, take the money and shut up.
Difficult to do sometimes but think about it this way: you are a paid tourist and will visit Beijing, Shijiazhuang capital of Hebei, Handan the pearl of ancient times, Baotou next to the tomb of Genghis Khan, freezing in winter but it is of course Inner Mongolia. The trip is worth it. You will experience it only once in a lifetime. Don't go to the dark alleys, the dirt stinks a lot, get a mask, visit a doctor when you return home, you might need it.
Well, I think I will stay forever here, I love it!
Flytoo
Boys and Girls!
We love Panam!
Discover the Chinese way of Life! Travel to great cities like Shijiazhuang, Handan and Baotou. Explore the new world of aviation; China's aviation is booming and need thousand of pilots. Train the elite of the new generation.
Where will they come from? Nobody knows of course! When? Good question! No answer yet!
I really love the job. And I believe that everywhere in the world is a pilot shortage! Really?
I don't agree; because we have at Panam flight instructors waiting to start teaching. Some for a few months, some almost a year, some too tired to wait and now they are leaving!
Just apply and get the great job, we need your help!
Don't believe anything, don't trust anybody, take the money and shut up.
Difficult to do sometimes but think about it this way: you are a paid tourist and will visit Beijing, Shijiazhuang capital of Hebei, Handan the pearl of ancient times, Baotou next to the tomb of Genghis Khan, freezing in winter but it is of course Inner Mongolia. The trip is worth it. You will experience it only once in a lifetime. Don't go to the dark alleys, the dirt stinks a lot, get a mask, visit a doctor when you return home, you might need it.
Well, I think I will stay forever here, I love it!
Flytoo
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Zealand
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Medical Required
Absolutely ... you will need to pass the Chinese class 1 medical unless you plan on being the ground instructor.
This is quite a strict medical. ECG, Blood tests, hearing tests, eye test, urine test, abdominal ultra sound test.... ect ect The last chinese class one medical I did they even did a brain scan .... but maybe that was because they wanted to see why foreigners are so smart.
Yeah, it is way tougher than an FAA or JAA or CASA or NZCAA medical.
Mind you ... if there is an issue with your medical it could be sorted out with a "Harmony Fee Coordination Test". This is where they test your hearing, brain activity and hand eye coordination.
It goes something like this ....
Hearing test .. First they test your hearing by saying "Oh dear, there is a problem with your medical". If you can hear this you have passed the hearing test.
Next is the brain activity test ... If you are smart enough to realise that this probem can be resolved with the payment of a harmony fee (known in western countries as a bribe) then you pass the brain activity test.
Next is the hand eye coordination test ... If you can put your hand in your pocket and pull out the correct amount of money and place it in their hand succesfully (within 10 attempts) then you pass the hand eye coordination test. (Note: If you cannot place the money in their hand within 10 attempts don't worry .. they will eventually take it from your hand and you will still pass)
Remember in China there is almost nothing that cant be fixed with a harmony fee
This is quite a strict medical. ECG, Blood tests, hearing tests, eye test, urine test, abdominal ultra sound test.... ect ect The last chinese class one medical I did they even did a brain scan .... but maybe that was because they wanted to see why foreigners are so smart
.Yeah, it is way tougher than an FAA or JAA or CASA or NZCAA medical.
Mind you ... if there is an issue with your medical it could be sorted out with a "Harmony Fee Coordination Test". This is where they test your hearing, brain activity and hand eye coordination.
It goes something like this ....
Hearing test .. First they test your hearing by saying "Oh dear, there is a problem with your medical". If you can hear this you have passed the hearing test.
Next is the brain activity test ... If you are smart enough to realise that this probem can be resolved with the payment of a harmony fee (known in western countries as a bribe) then you pass the brain activity test.
Next is the hand eye coordination test ... If you can put your hand in your pocket and pull out the correct amount of money and place it in their hand succesfully (within 10 attempts) then you pass the hand eye coordination test. (Note: If you cannot place the money in their hand within 10 attempts don't worry .. they will eventually take it from your hand and you will still pass)
Remember in China there is almost nothing that cant be fixed with a harmony fee
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dreamland
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Latest News
Hello Guys,
Nice comments about the life in China!
The latest is that a group of instructors and students from class 3 and 4 is moving to Baotou, Inner Mongolia. After a short stay in Handan the beautiful, they will enjoy the sights in Baotou.
Have a good flying day!
Flytoo
Nice comments about the life in China!
The latest is that a group of instructors and students from class 3 and 4 is moving to Baotou, Inner Mongolia. After a short stay in Handan the beautiful, they will enjoy the sights in Baotou.
Have a good flying day!
Flytoo
