China Airlines Interview
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Are there any positives to CAL?? I've heard about being treated poorly, paid poorly and scheduled poorly. Does anyone appreciate their job, or at least enjoy it SOMETIMES???
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Hi,
maybe somebody can tell me where the ELO bases are at the moment and how long you must wait to get them?
What is the typical roster,how many hours?,off days?,overlays?
If you are based in TPE,ist it possible to commute?
Thanx in advance...
maybe somebody can tell me where the ELO bases are at the moment and how long you must wait to get them?
What is the typical roster,how many hours?,off days?,overlays?
If you are based in TPE,ist it possible to commute?
Thanx in advance...
Join Date: Feb 2004
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To 555, 29, deske1, pitotman, thank you all for your invaluable input here. To me, this is one of the real advantages of the internet. So guys like you can tell guys like me who have been thinking about CAL, what the real deal is. So I can choose to not give up seniority to go there and get screwed. These posts must be a huge blow to the HR depts. of companies that are treating pilots like dirt and lying in the interviews.
TapeiParadise, I found your generalisations about Canadians highly offensive, untrue, and completely juvenile. How can you possibly call informative, intelligent people that you don't even know losers and liers? Either you have a lot of growing up to do, or you should stay off the water bong if you're going to post here. One minute you're the angry young man; the next you're the prozac baby calling everyone brother after you've pretty much told them to go f*# their mothers.
A nitwit like you has not earned the right to slag my countrymen. Govern your tongue lest my cane reach your backside!
TapeiParadise, I found your generalisations about Canadians highly offensive, untrue, and completely juvenile. How can you possibly call informative, intelligent people that you don't even know losers and liers? Either you have a lot of growing up to do, or you should stay off the water bong if you're going to post here. One minute you're the angry young man; the next you're the prozac baby calling everyone brother after you've pretty much told them to go f*# their mothers.
A nitwit like you has not earned the right to slag my countrymen. Govern your tongue lest my cane reach your backside!
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Hey there,
Got some questions:
1. Will CAL move at all on the US$ 13000 bond, I mean, reduce it at all. And does it have to be through their nominated bank?
2. Anyone got an example roster? Even if it's only for two weeks?
3. What are the appartment rental costs over there, and what do you get for your money?
4. Is it possible to work say 3 weeks on, then take 8 or 10 days off and head home for that time?
Thanks people.
Got some questions:
1. Will CAL move at all on the US$ 13000 bond, I mean, reduce it at all. And does it have to be through their nominated bank?
2. Anyone got an example roster? Even if it's only for two weeks?
3. What are the appartment rental costs over there, and what do you get for your money?
4. Is it possible to work say 3 weeks on, then take 8 or 10 days off and head home for that time?
Thanks people.
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CAL
Hi folks.
I recently had an invitation for a interview with CAL to fly the A330.
I´ve read to bad things about this airline in this forum that i´m allready having second toughts about it.
Could someone (but someone open minded, please) giveme some good advices about them?
It would be nice to hear from someone who actually fly for them, someone from inside.
And by the way Cityshutlle737, they have told me that their available ELO bases are MIAMI, LOS ANGELES and SAN FRANCISCO at the moment.
About roostering i have no idea, As far as i know they work on a 22 work 8 consecutive days of
I recently had an invitation for a interview with CAL to fly the A330.
I´ve read to bad things about this airline in this forum that i´m allready having second toughts about it.
Could someone (but someone open minded, please) giveme some good advices about them?
It would be nice to hear from someone who actually fly for them, someone from inside.
And by the way Cityshutlle737, they have told me that their available ELO bases are MIAMI, LOS ANGELES and SAN FRANCISCO at the moment.
About roostering i have no idea, As far as i know they work on a 22 work 8 consecutive days of
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Cal info
CAL is probably a good place to work if you don't already have a decent job. You will be offered pay based on your experience. For somebody with 6000 or 7000 hours and lots of commercial jet time you can expect an offer of around $4800 US per month to fly the 747-400, so I would expect somewhat less for the A330. You also get $1000 living allowance and some type of bonus each year. You will fly around 80 hours per month with 8 consecutive days off in your base. That is not to say that you won't have additional days off but they may not be consecutive. Upgrade is not likely for non nationals. I spoke to an F/O who had been there for over 8 years. A good western style apartment in the city is around $1500 per month but everything else is dirt cheap. The Taiwanese type rating you will receive is not valid for transfer to an FAA certificate but I don't know about other countries. There is no seniority at least for scheduling purposes and you will fly a mix of long and short haul. I elected to keep my current job where I work very little, get paid quite well and get to live in the good old USA. Which reminds me, I am not aware of any other bases besides Taipei and commuting any distance would be difficult.
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Base for CAL
I know for sure that SFO is a base for CAL. If one chooses to base in SFO or other bases other than TPE, you go home on CAL's time. If you choose to base in TPE, you can still travel on your day off, yet it will be on your own time.
I also know that one of their most recent classes, there are 4 people. One American, 2 Brazilians and 1 Russian.
p.s I donot work for CAL, but I know an expa pilot who just joined CAL and in training now.
I also know that one of their most recent classes, there are 4 people. One American, 2 Brazilians and 1 Russian.
p.s I donot work for CAL, but I know an expa pilot who just joined CAL and in training now.
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what about living in Vancouver and working for CAL
I was wondering if anyone commutes from YVR to TPE on the 744, and I've heard you can start your pairing from YVR? any truth to this.
Deske 1, why don't you judge yourself instead of others, people like you get on these threads not help others but to but to show how morally superior you are because you wouldn't dare stand for this or that. Good for you mate, but don't cr@p on people just because you have an axe to grind with CAL. Everyone who gets to this stage of the game knows what they're getting into, CAL isn't the only company out there making people sign bonds.
Deske 1, why don't you judge yourself instead of others, people like you get on these threads not help others but to but to show how morally superior you are because you wouldn't dare stand for this or that. Good for you mate, but don't cr@p on people just because you have an axe to grind with CAL. Everyone who gets to this stage of the game knows what they're getting into, CAL isn't the only company out there making people sign bonds.
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Setthrust got it right
Not to deflate anybody's expectations but at CAL you will be treated poorly, paid as little as possible and scheduled terribly, especially so, if you get into the so called ELO program. This program is managemd by now called "Kevin" who when he was doing the same job in EVA "Rick" had this "envelope system" in which you would lube the way to get your schedule "corrected". He is more discrete now but still ...once corrupt, always corrupt, so if you are a "player" you may get what you want but if you are not, you will be condemned into scheduling purgatory.
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You are right,if You mean,I would never risk my 20.000 USD on the roulette table or deposit to this company.I have seen the faces of the guys,who lost their hardly earned money after 8-10 weeks of CAL employment,being on the street.
And,no those guys coming from the developed world,where racial discrimination from an employer is a serious crime,they dont know what they are getting into.
To make it clear;an employer,a national flag-carrier where You pay and risk your own 20.000 USD to babysit the "top guns" for 4000 USD/month,where You are always treated as a second class employee,where the open corruption is an everyday and common way of life,threatening the experienced candidates to claim for the cost of the interview in case of saying NO at the screening,so I call this contract/offer as a cr@p. This is not a training bond,this is a deposit.A deposit even before entering the door.
I guess,it would have been a big help for those people who were sacked during the so called training and had to leave CAL with 20.000 USD "lighter."
Of course,everyone has the right to do whatever he/she wants to do with his own money/life.
And,no those guys coming from the developed world,where racial discrimination from an employer is a serious crime,they dont know what they are getting into.
To make it clear;an employer,a national flag-carrier where You pay and risk your own 20.000 USD to babysit the "top guns" for 4000 USD/month,where You are always treated as a second class employee,where the open corruption is an everyday and common way of life,threatening the experienced candidates to claim for the cost of the interview in case of saying NO at the screening,so I call this contract/offer as a cr@p. This is not a training bond,this is a deposit.A deposit even before entering the door.
I guess,it would have been a big help for those people who were sacked during the so called training and had to leave CAL with 20.000 USD "lighter."
Of course,everyone has the right to do whatever he/she wants to do with his own money/life.
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Ahhh, the subject of the bond(s)! That is another loose/loose issue. In your contract it says that you have to advise the company with advance notice when you are planning to resign. Well any logic would tell you that the prorated bond amount would be repaid to you depending on how much time you actually worked after the check out? Well, unfortunately, logic is out the window here as they get "ofended" by somebody with the "crazy" idea of leaving them and go on an outright war path against you, freezing your accounts and then will not pay you for that current month, etc. Everybody who has been a gentleman and "played by the rules" has been burned by them. I know of a guy who had only 2 months left of his 3 year contract and he lost all that was still outstanding to him (about 18,000 USD). Then there is the case of the Canadian F/O who had his papers confiscated to prevent him from leaving the country till the time he would cough up $20,000 USD for which he had his wife get him a 2nd mortgage on his home back in Canada to be able to leave the island (In those days you did not deposit the bond outright, just signed for it). So as has been said here before, it is a Russian roulette and what people have to end up doing is to clean up their accounts of whatever is coming to them and not come back from their home leaves. Honesty at CAL is rewarded by a kick in the teeth. So good luck!
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767Driver
You ask "I was wondering if anyone commutes from YVR to TPE on the 744"
I commuted for a year and a half before I quit. Deske1 was my roommate and he also commuted from Vancouver.....you can do it. But it is on your 8 days off and you always loose one day going back to Taipei....so really your getting 6-7 days at home....after all the flying you do on your 22 on..........it is not enough!
..." and I've heard you can start your pairing from YVR? Any truth to this."
Yes it is called a ELO program.......suggest you read about it on the many posts here............sounds great in theory but all n all its crap! I could have had it after 6 months and I never considered it. Those expats that do it.........do it cause they HAVE TO!
"Deske 1, why don't you judge yourself instead of others, people like you get on these threads not help others but to but to show how morally superior you are because you wouldn't dare stand for this or that."
Mate with all due respect you missed the ball here with your bat! No axe to grind ..........we moved on to better pastures as soon as we could. I suggest you sit down re-read all the posts on here about CAL that I took the time and Deske and others and get all the facts brutha........then hit me up with a retort if you feel just in doing so.......
CAL is by far one of the lowest common denominators in this industry in every aspect. I am shocked everyday the amount of people who leave there with out the company trying to address the revolving door in the flight operations training department. I talk to the two lovely gals in the HR office fairly regular and they are wonderful people who have an impossible task.........
767Driver...........drop me a line when you have read it all here and if you still want to banter about CAL I will spend one of my many days off further educating you ...........
To quote the great ALI G ..........boyaaka
Peace
Pitoman
I commuted for a year and a half before I quit. Deske1 was my roommate and he also commuted from Vancouver.....you can do it. But it is on your 8 days off and you always loose one day going back to Taipei....so really your getting 6-7 days at home....after all the flying you do on your 22 on..........it is not enough!
..." and I've heard you can start your pairing from YVR? Any truth to this."
Yes it is called a ELO program.......suggest you read about it on the many posts here............sounds great in theory but all n all its crap! I could have had it after 6 months and I never considered it. Those expats that do it.........do it cause they HAVE TO!
"Deske 1, why don't you judge yourself instead of others, people like you get on these threads not help others but to but to show how morally superior you are because you wouldn't dare stand for this or that."
Mate with all due respect you missed the ball here with your bat! No axe to grind ..........we moved on to better pastures as soon as we could. I suggest you sit down re-read all the posts on here about CAL that I took the time and Deske and others and get all the facts brutha........then hit me up with a retort if you feel just in doing so.......
CAL is by far one of the lowest common denominators in this industry in every aspect. I am shocked everyday the amount of people who leave there with out the company trying to address the revolving door in the flight operations training department. I talk to the two lovely gals in the HR office fairly regular and they are wonderful people who have an impossible task.........
767Driver...........drop me a line when you have read it all here and if you still want to banter about CAL I will spend one of my many days off further educating you ...........
To quote the great ALI G ..........boyaaka
Peace
Pitoman
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Thanks for the response pitotman, and no offence intended to those like you or Deske1 so apologies if that's the case. My point was that there are few to no great jobs out there, and especially here in the great white north. You know that what I'm saying is right, or I'm sure that collegues like you and Deske1 wouldn't of gone to work at CAL in the first place. I'm sure you know better than anyone that CAL's working conditions haven't changed to much in the last 10 years, the addition of the training deposit was maybe because, and certainly no offence intended here, guys like you and many other went back to better jobs at home after a short stay with CAL and with a 744 type rating that MOT recognized (could this have helped your job prospects here at home? me thinks certainly so). I'm not knocking you here, I'm just saying that not so long ago many Jetsgo guys were on the street after losing their entire training bond/deposit right here in this country.
With companies like AC making you work for food for the first 3 years, then pick place to live or left seat cause you can't have both until your too old to care, WJ and their pay system that you have to be financial anaylist to figure out, and no chance of command before I think its 7 years now, commuter type flying (5 legs a day and bring your own lunch) and everywhere else where you have to get into a piece of jurassic equipment in the right seat and subsist on low wages, eternal duty days and skeds that make those at CAL seem, well lets be honest, not so bad.
Other options, CP and their astronaut school where speaking up is career suicide (see 49 examples), no pay for commuting and the fact that almost everyone I know who works there hates almost everyone else they work with. EK and EY and there workcamps/sandboxes with seemingly equally ridiculous recruitment standards and ever worsening terms of endearment, (if I can be so generous), well you have seen the posting here on pprune I'm sure. SIA Cargo and its training bond low pay and managment/pilot relations consistent with all the previous expat places I've mentioned, which reflect the working conditions of the working world in 99 percent of developing contries, and are actually very good by their own countries standards I am absolutely sure. Need I continue?
So my thought is how can CAL be so bad, first I know of someone who works there (does not commute and is on the 340) and yeah he agrees with all you and Deske1 have said about CAL's working environment which is much like most other airlines in the developing world, and I know because I've worked there as well. He told me about the ELO possibilities out of YVR on the 744 and I was just wondering if there was anybody out there actually doing it who could tell me about it. So again many thanks for the info pitotman, I was wondering out of the 22 days on you had of flying did you ever get to go back to YVR, I'm sure you tried to let CAL scheduling to give you a break in this regard, and they didn't obviously.
Cheers to you and Deske1,
glad you guys found greener pastures, hope I will too someday.
peace out
With companies like AC making you work for food for the first 3 years, then pick place to live or left seat cause you can't have both until your too old to care, WJ and their pay system that you have to be financial anaylist to figure out, and no chance of command before I think its 7 years now, commuter type flying (5 legs a day and bring your own lunch) and everywhere else where you have to get into a piece of jurassic equipment in the right seat and subsist on low wages, eternal duty days and skeds that make those at CAL seem, well lets be honest, not so bad.
Other options, CP and their astronaut school where speaking up is career suicide (see 49 examples), no pay for commuting and the fact that almost everyone I know who works there hates almost everyone else they work with. EK and EY and there workcamps/sandboxes with seemingly equally ridiculous recruitment standards and ever worsening terms of endearment, (if I can be so generous), well you have seen the posting here on pprune I'm sure. SIA Cargo and its training bond low pay and managment/pilot relations consistent with all the previous expat places I've mentioned, which reflect the working conditions of the working world in 99 percent of developing contries, and are actually very good by their own countries standards I am absolutely sure. Need I continue?
So my thought is how can CAL be so bad, first I know of someone who works there (does not commute and is on the 340) and yeah he agrees with all you and Deske1 have said about CAL's working environment which is much like most other airlines in the developing world, and I know because I've worked there as well. He told me about the ELO possibilities out of YVR on the 744 and I was just wondering if there was anybody out there actually doing it who could tell me about it. So again many thanks for the info pitotman, I was wondering out of the 22 days on you had of flying did you ever get to go back to YVR, I'm sure you tried to let CAL scheduling to give you a break in this regard, and they didn't obviously.
Cheers to you and Deske1,
glad you guys found greener pastures, hope I will too someday.
peace out
Last edited by six7driver; 7th Dec 2006 at 11:06.
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Fedup: <Everybody who has been a gentleman and "played by the rules" has been burned by them. I know of a guy who had only 2 months left of his 3 year contract and he lost all that was still outstanding to him (about 18,000 USD).>
The guy i believe you are referring to was already type rated and had lots of time on the airplane, but was not current at the time of joining CAL as he had since gone onto another type. He did not get a rating from CAL; they merely got him his currency back - yet, they took the $$$ when he left them, 2 months shy of 3-years. That should tell you a lot
The guy i believe you are referring to was already type rated and had lots of time on the airplane, but was not current at the time of joining CAL as he had since gone onto another type. He did not get a rating from CAL; they merely got him his currency back - yet, they took the $$$ when he left them, 2 months shy of 3-years. That should tell you a lot
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The ELO for those who are wondering of what it is and how it works out, is an Extended Layover Program through which the company saves the money that would be paid to you as housing allowance in Taipei. So they assign you to these ELO "bases" to where you fly into and out of for your "days off". The first problem with this program is that it is a fixed pattern made by "greasey-fingers Kevin" for 3 to 6 months in advance, so you have no way of selecting any days off to make sure you are home for that wedding, anniversary, your little girl's birthday, etc... "Kevin" will also decide when he will alot an annual leave day now and then on to the eight days of home leave at a 100% of his sole and mischievous discretion. By contract (Which is more often violated than any other document in human history) you accrue 2 days of AL per month, but can only carry forward 30 days of them to the next year so the days in excess will be simply stricken from your balance without you having any say so or compensation (Outright robbery). Of course you will loose days of leave as you depart at midnight plus some minutes on a date but you really will have to be ready at the ELO port on the previous day, so if you have to commute in from somewhere, there is another day you loose. When you fly into, say LAX, YVR, etc that same day because of the time zone change, there is no allocation of the rest period thereafter either so you are being short changed on both ends. Then you may have to "position" yourself say to Anchorage or Frankfurt, once in a while to start your "pattern" from over there. This of course you have to pay out of your own pocket and when the company positions you to some pattern starting port they will send you as ECM (Extra Crew Member) instead of ACM (Additional Crew Member) to avoid crediting you with 50% of the flight time that they have to pay for. Now of course, you appear as ACM but will never be paid for it and good luck trying to get that money paid back to you in the future as you are far and away from the TPE accounting office 
for their delight .You also will not be covered by any insurance in case you fall down the aircraft stairs as ECM and that issue the lovely fleet office never really cared to address as well; remember that as ECM for the company you are traveling "on your own" so to speak. You will also find that there is no crew available to cover anybody in the ELO becoming sick, etc... so you may very well asked to "extend" your pattern to cover a sick colleague loosing your days off and never ever getting them repaid, this happens infrequently because everybody tries to not call in sick for that same reason unless it is unavoidable, so yes, they fly injured or sick to not affect "the pattern". And after you covered them, well of course you have to pick up where your new pattern starts, you know there is nobody available to cover you!
So you accept all these things in order to be "based" close to home and then you find out as well that on top of loosing the housing allowance and being put up in the most unbelievable low cost lodging accomodations, etc... you will be taxed at a flat rate of 20% of gross because of the time you will spent out of Taiwan makes you a non-resident. This is a big difference since you cannot make a normal tax return which would have you paying, depending on everybody's situation with the number of dependants, etc, only 11 to 14% of gross income. So you will have less income and pay higher taxes, a real loose/loose situation that I cannot believe is still being accepted by anybody but yes, "you will be based at home"! Every three months you will be ECM'ed back to Taipei for sim training, etc... where you will not get per diems (At 2 bucks an hour it can only be covering a couple of McDonald's happy meals, but hey you are 747-400 pilot!!!) and will not get even the ground transport the other pilots will get back to the hotel and will have to pay for your own taxi. So you will become a third class "citizen" so to speak. You may see an annual leave day be shortened to 20 hours so that they can schedule you out on a midnight plus departure, if you complain, Kevin will tell you with a smirk on his corrupt face that he can do whatever he wants to suit "his patterns" and if that is a 15 minute AL day, so be it! (And there is nobody who will prevent him from doing it) You are now in the ELO world!!! But then you see that a guy has 20 days off in arow in one of those Floridian patterns, how can that be possible, you ask ??? Only in the world of "greasey fingers" is that po$$ible!!!
for their delight .You also will not be covered by any insurance in case you fall down the aircraft stairs as ECM and that issue the lovely fleet office never really cared to address as well; remember that as ECM for the company you are traveling "on your own" so to speak. You will also find that there is no crew available to cover anybody in the ELO becoming sick, etc... so you may very well asked to "extend" your pattern to cover a sick colleague loosing your days off and never ever getting them repaid, this happens infrequently because everybody tries to not call in sick for that same reason unless it is unavoidable, so yes, they fly injured or sick to not affect "the pattern". And after you covered them, well of course you have to pick up where your new pattern starts, you know there is nobody available to cover you!So you accept all these things in order to be "based" close to home and then you find out as well that on top of loosing the housing allowance and being put up in the most unbelievable low cost lodging accomodations, etc... you will be taxed at a flat rate of 20% of gross because of the time you will spent out of Taiwan makes you a non-resident. This is a big difference since you cannot make a normal tax return which would have you paying, depending on everybody's situation with the number of dependants, etc, only 11 to 14% of gross income. So you will have less income and pay higher taxes, a real loose/loose situation that I cannot believe is still being accepted by anybody but yes, "you will be based at home"! Every three months you will be ECM'ed back to Taipei for sim training, etc... where you will not get per diems (At 2 bucks an hour it can only be covering a couple of McDonald's happy meals, but hey you are 747-400 pilot!!!) and will not get even the ground transport the other pilots will get back to the hotel and will have to pay for your own taxi. So you will become a third class "citizen" so to speak. You may see an annual leave day be shortened to 20 hours so that they can schedule you out on a midnight plus departure, if you complain, Kevin will tell you with a smirk on his corrupt face that he can do whatever he wants to suit "his patterns" and if that is a 15 minute AL day, so be it! (And there is nobody who will prevent him from doing it) You are now in the ELO world!!! But then you see that a guy has 20 days off in arow in one of those Floridian patterns, how can that be possible, you ask ??? Only in the world of "greasey fingers" is that po$$ible!!!
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I'm not sure which ELO pattern you are on and which company you work for but I am on the ELO in YVR with CAL and have been there for about two years and it works for me. Depends where you are and who you have worked for in the past CAL is not the worst place in the world to work. I never ECM on the ELO, I operate every flight in and out, the day you get in is not one of your days off, so it is a free day to catch up on sleep then you have 8,9 or 10 days off in a row, depending on AL days. I prefer knowing my days off 6 months in advance so I can plan ahead for vacations, if you have something pop up you can always trade blocks or take unpaid leave( works out to a 1000 USD per week) but I'd give up a grand to spend a week at home. True i don't get living allowance but my hotel is paid for in TPE(which has gotten alot better in the last 6 months), my per diem starts when I leave YVR until I return 20 days later( about 900 USD), I dont pay for positioning in ANC or anywhere else( I've never heard of anyone at CAL doing that unless they are trying to get home on there on time)and I don't pay for taxi's. Kevin is an idiot but what company doesn't have them, I have 16 days off for Christmas and New Years, both years I have been here. The ELO only works if you live in the city you operate in and out off, the previous gentleman referring to paying your way to Frankfurt obviously doesn't live in Frankfurt so he must pay for his own way there. That's his choice. As far as pay and bond go, if I were to start over, I would call an agency that deals with CAL and go through them, I think CAL deals with 1 or 2 agencies. All the guys I know that use them make more money than i do and didn't pay a bond.Your tax situation is better as well since you technically don't work for a Taiwanese company.The previous gentleman does not live in Canada and pay 11-14 percent tax, if he does give me the name of your accountant please